1. #1
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    Default Pumper / Tanker Application

    A couple of us in my department are trying to help a neighboring department on a pumper tanker grant. This will be their first application. We have been trying to get them to apply all along, but this is the first that they are going to actually fill out an application.

    We received a pumper tanker grant in 08 and after seeing how we are using it as well as some other departments, they have decided that it would be a good fit for them as well. Here is their situation:
    -Engine 1 '88 1000 / 1000 with pump issues with C800 chasis
    -Engine 2 '97 1250 / 1000 4 door freightliner chasis
    -Tanker 1 '78 1000 / 1800 with new clutch every other year for the last 10, leaking tank, rusting compartments, and engine issues
    -Brush Truck '80 500 / 150 with clutch, engine, and pump issues
    They have a "downtown" area with 2 blocks of 150 year old buildings with shared basements and attics, 1 school, post office, bar, 2 restaurants, grocery store, several apartments, 2 gas stations, and many residences. They also cover approximately50 sq. miles that is all rural. There are no wet hydrants in the coverage area and <10 dry hydrants.

    We explained to them that combining units would greatly increase their chances in getting funded. At their last meeting, the chief was authorized to do what would be best for the department. Right now he is looking at combining Engine 1 and Tanker 1. He would like a minimum 2500 gallon tank with 1500 gpm truck outfitted with everything for it to be an attack engine. This would then become the daytime attack engine and second out during other times. It would also be the tanker for mutual aid calls (>250 sq miles rural area) and would need water supply equipment.

    I am fairly confident in the odds for this, however, my question is on the funding level for this vehicle. What they would like would be a vehicle capable of carrying 5 people plus all of the necessary equipment. Obvioulsy, they would take just about anything. How much of a truck should they put in for? A base quote for a basic model is arund $265,000. A quote on the larger cab, 3000 tank, and a couple other items to make life a lot easier takes the bid to $345,000. Going with a custom cab adds another $15,000.

    They do not have the extra money where the grant is written for the $345,000 and they get the funding for the $265,000 to make up the difference. At the current funding levels in the department, this will be the last new truck for many years, so the upgrade to the $345,000 would better fill the long term needs of the department. What are your opinions on to which level we should write the grant?

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    Just remember that when the AFG evaluates their fleet it will catergorize all 3 pieces as "pumpers" that fall into the definition of pumper/tankers.

    From the PG:

    For example, the “pumper” category includes: pumpers, engines, pumper/tankers (apparatus that carries a minimum of 300 gallons of water and has a pump with a capacity to pump a minimum of 750 gallons per minute), rescue-pumpers, quints (with aerials less than 76 feet in length), and urban interface vehicles (Type I). Apparatus that has water capacity in excess of 1,000 gallons and a pump with pumping capacity of less than 750 gallons per minute are considered to be a tanker/tender.

    The quote of $345,000 will not fly with the AFG. It will be reduced to a level closer to $275,000 or so; meaning the department would have to make up the difference something they cannot do. Their best option is with the vehicle that has been quoted at the $265,000.

    IMHO their best chance at a vehicle will be with a straight tanker.

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    need a little more info on demographics.
    Call volume
    population served
    ability to put some sizable cash into the grant.[ increasing the % of their share]

    Based on what you gave , I;ll have to agree with Andy on going for a straight tanker with a price line of under 200k to increase the odds and lower the cost benefit ratio.

    Combining multiple units is a good thing but it also takes a front line engine away when responding mutual aid for a tanker request. Every situation is a little different so you have to adjust for local needs.
    In our area the tankers are built to be water haulers with a pump capable of self filling or relay pumping to keep an attack engines porta tank filled. To use it a a primary first out will work if you have someone else bringing the water after you use the load on board.

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    Would the fact that they will be combining 2 pieces of apparatus into 1 help with the cost adjustment?

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    Population of approximately 4,500
    5-10 fires of their own
    1st alarm mutual aid of 20 fires per year
    County tanker task force would add another 10-20
    Mutual aid to NY state adds 15-25
    Their first alarm brings in around 10,000 gallons
    We are the closest at 7 miles to them

    As far as finances and completely accurate demographics, I have to wait to hear from them as that is what we have them gathering now. Obviously program guidance will add some more information to how we apply, but I wanted to get as much information from the gurus here as possible. Helping them only helps us in the end.

    We are also trying to get them some LDH. Total hose they carry now between all 3 trucks is less than 1,000 feet. The largest hose they carry is 3", but most of it is 2.5". With over 50 miles of dirt roads, a tanker shuttle is usually not the best option.

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    Based on what you have posted ( low call volume and population), IMHO you need to go straight tanker with Federal share of no more than $150K and local match doing the difference.Even though there is a little more money in program this year, it is still a very lean year.2010 only saw 410 vehicle awards at avg of $221K, 2011 will have maybe 20 more awards for trucks but they will still be looking for the most reasonable deals so they can fund more departments.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Thank you all for your input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    Thank you all for your input.
    On behalf of all in here, your welcome!
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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