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Thread: Chnages to ISO

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    Default Chnages to ISO

    just wondering when ISO will make a decision on the changes they have considering?


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    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fao110 View Post
    just wondering when ISO will make a decision on the changes they have considering?
    2 weeks......
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    Quote Originally Posted by fao110 View Post
    just wondering when ISO will make a decision on the changes they have considering?
    I spoke to an ISO rep about something else last month, and actually asked him about that. He laughed, citing the lines of bureaucracy that things have to go through, and said he couldn't even guess when the new FSRS will be released.
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    Us older guys may be retired by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fao110 View Post
    just wondering when ISO will make a decision on the changes they have considering?
    What changes?

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    i was just wondering
    the changes may mean updating our five year plan
    thanks for the replys

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    Some of the changes that have been floated about have significant implications regarding staffing. One such thought is to closely mirror NFPA 1710/1720 and if your FD cannot meet this standard, your rating will drop to a 9.

    Personally I think this is the only way to ensure proper staffing levels will ever be attained. Short of a financial responsibility to provide adequate staffing, the politicians will not support the requisite budget numbers. FD Staffing is probably one of the best ways for insurance companies to ensure lower losses. It would seem a natural fit for ISO to want to ensure staffing was at a level capable of safely and efficiently addressing the fire problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Short of a financial responsibility to provide adequate staffing, the politicians will not support the requisite budget numbers.
    Such a requirement may force consolidations - particularly in smaller adjoining communities where each town/village/city can only afford to staff one or two apparatus.

    And that'll be the kicker - "can afford." Many small communities have understaffed fire departments because the tax base isn't there to support the people and apparatus necessary to have that magic 15 person response. They consider themselves luck to have any career staffing.

    That does not speak to larger communities that can afford it, but don't, which is another issue entirely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDGloWorm View Post
    What changes?
    http://www.isomitigation.com/fsrs/

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    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    Such a requirement may force consolidations - particularly in smaller adjoining communities where each town/village/city can only afford to staff one or two apparatus.

    And that'll be the kicker - "can afford." Many small communities have understaffed fire departments because the tax base isn't there to support the people and apparatus necessary to have that magic 15 person response. They consider themselves luck to have any career staffing.
    I think that's their point. "Hey look if you can't afford to properly staff your FD, fine, but realize that due to the increase in losses, your rates are going to be higher. So instead of making the community meet the requirement, you can drop back to an ISO 8 (from the above link) and individual residents and businesses can pay increased insurance premiums."

    In the end, the community should look at the potential "out of pocket" expenses and try and increase the staffing as often proves to be cheaper than the increase paid across the board.

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    Nothing in the possible changes mention anything about a career staffed fire department. Plenty of departments out there show up with more fully volunteer crews than thier fully career neighbors do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Nothing in the possible changes mention anything about a career staffed fire department. Plenty of departments out there show up with more fully volunteer crews than thier fully career neighbors do.
    I do not think the intent is looking at in house staffing regardless of pay, but instead looking at boots on the fireground. How you do it is your issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I do not think the intent is looking at in house staffing regardless of pay, but instead looking at boots on the fireground. How you do it is your issue.
    Not when they say that it takes 3 or 4 volunteers to equal one paid guy. What a crock.

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    One of my gripes with ISO is that their evaluators do not judge the same and in some cases not even close to the same.

    Department in our area borrowed a lot of lose equipment from their neighbors with the owners stickers still on it and got full credit for it. Our evaluator pulls everything off the truck and looks at each piece and wants to make sure its ours. Only thing I can say is level the playing field.

    The other evaluator is at their place a little over a day, our evaluator is at our place a week. They have 4 stations and we have 6 stations should not be that big of a difference in the length of the evaluation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Not when they say that it takes 3 or 4 volunteers to equal one paid guy. What a crock.
    As long as you have documented, in house staffing, it's a one-to-one ratio. It's one reason that we require all members to sign in and out when they're at the station.

    As for the 3:1 ratio, with a lot of volunteer departments having varying staffing levels, it's not surprising that they have to take an average. Yes, it does screw a volunteer department that can normally bring 17 people to the scene (not a random number, using NFPA 1710 as an example since we're taking about equivalency), but there are many that can't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    As long as you have documented, in house staffing, it's a one-to-one ratio. It's one reason that we require all members to sign in and out when they're at the station.

    As for the 3:1 ratio, with a lot of volunteer departments having varying staffing levels, it's not surprising that they have to take an average. Yes, it does screw a volunteer department that can normally bring 17 people to the scene (not a random number, using NFPA 1710 as an example since we're taking about equivalency), but there are many that can't.
    If a volunteer or combo department is putting the required number of people on a scene then it should not matter. With that said they need to be able to do it every time. If they can't then they should lose points.

    As with NFPA, ISO is trying to make one shoe fit everyone and there is no way to do that and be fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Not when they say that it takes 3 or 4 volunteers to equal one paid guy. What a crock.
    Given that not every volunteer is available for every call, that actually sounds like a fairly reasonable assumption.

    I see it a meaning that in order to be the equivalent of a 15 FF staffed department, a volunteer department would need 45-60 people on the roster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    As with NFPA, ISO is trying to make one shoe fit everyone and there is no way to do that and be fair.
    I think you are misrepresenting the point of ISO with this statement.

    ISO is about assessing the firefighting capabilities of a community (not just the FD). ISO measures the major elements of a community's fire-suppression system and then assigns a "grade" based on the results of the assessment. This "grade" has then been used by the insurance industry in assessing "risk" in terms of whether to offer insurance coverage and set premiums for property owners. ISO has their own criteria on, for lack of a better term, what they feel the "optimal" firefighting capabilities of a community should be.

    Under the current schedule, only 50% of the grade comes from the FD itself. The other half assessing call processing & dispatching (10%) and water system (40%).

    ISO really isn't about a "one size fits all" approach. It's about setting the bar and seeing how a community measures up to it. If the community measures up well, then their reward is lower insurance premiums than if they had measured up poorly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    I think you are misrepresenting the point of ISO with this statement.

    ISO is about assessing the firefighting capabilities of a community (not just the FD). ISO measures the major elements of a community's fire-suppression system and then assigns a "grade" based on the results of the assessment. This "grade" has then been used by the insurance industry in assessing "risk" in terms of whether to offer insurance coverage and set premiums for property owners. ISO has their own criteria on, for lack of a better term, what they feel the "optimal" firefighting capabilities of a community should be.

    Under the current schedule, only 50% of the grade comes from the FD itself. The other half assessing call processing & dispatching (10%) and water system (40%).

    ISO really isn't about a "one size fits all" approach. It's about setting the bar and seeing how a community measures up to it. If the community measures up well, then their reward is lower insurance premiums than if they had measured up poorly.
    While that may be the intent it is not really happening in the real world. Until they get their evaluators all grading the same way it will not happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    While that may be the intent it is not really happening in the real world. Until they get their evaluators all grading the same way it will not happen.
    You're mixing issues.

    Non-uniform assessment of communities by different evaluators is not the same thing as a "one size fits all" process.

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