Thread: Pierce Layoffs

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Oh, but it is Pierce bashing, don'tcha know. It is the local sport. But, its a heck of a lot easier to hurl insults to those that buy their product than it is to simply say, "Hey, other people build truck too!"

    Full disclosure for the playground "Kool Aid" name callers: I work for a competitor of Pierce. Get that through your heads.

    By the way, every time you Pierce bashers get rabid you are insulting the people who are buying them. As a general rule I have found that insulting people, rather than reasoned discourse, only alienates people.

    That would explain why this forum used to be a good place to find information and now is a pit of whiners and bashers. Eventually the people that actually have something to contribute leave and we are left with the whiners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Oh, but it is Pierce bashing, don'tcha know. It is the local sport. But, its a heck of a lot easier to hurl insults to those that buy their product than it is to simply say, "Hey, other people build truck too!"

    By the way, every time you Pierce bashers get rabid you are insulting the people who are buying them. As a general rule I have found that insulting people, rather than reasoned discourse, only alienates people.

    That would explain why this forum used to be a good place to find information and now is a pit of whiners and bashers. Eventually the people that actually have something to contribute leave and we are left with the whiners.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IR1man View Post
    These comments don't contribute at all to THIS thread. If I desired to read these pointed opinions, I would go and review any other Apparatus related thread. Given the state of the overall Emergency Market (ALL MFGs) and economy in general these comments lack respct for the situation.

    Hope the best for all of those people and their families from all MFGs feeling the heavy burden of a slow industry.
    Please... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

    And neither do a few others, but thanks for picking me to be your target for the injustice.

    I will however say, that I hate seeing any kind of layoff by any MFG. It plain sucks, and they have my best wishes with them in finding something quickly.

    It isn't personal when I have complete disgust with a MFG. It isn't towards the people that work there. It is towards THAT company alone, not its employees. If you think one voice contributes to it, then grow some thicker skin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    That would explain why this forum used to be a good place to find information and now is a pit of whiners and bashers. Eventually the people that actually have something to contribute leave and we are left with the whiners.
    Yeah, OK.

    Because I have 2 POS Pierces, and have learned the problems of them (outside of cost for proprietary parts), I am an uninformed, and unlikely to help someone that has a problem with one???

    Quite the opposite. I contribute to fixing the POS's, without calling them as I see them in the same post, or thread. That was there, this is here. If they need help, I'll give them the info, if I have it.

    Bashing and whining is a go around with every MFG. Some have even chastised my beloved Spartans, without proof. Pierce has, well, more than that, across the country for problems. They also have an issue of sweeping things under the rug.

    You be the judge, if it is warranted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    By the way, every time you Pierce bashers get rabid you are insulting the people who are buying them. As a general rule I have found that insulting people, rather than reasoned discourse, only alienates people.
    You crack me up soooooo much. You make me laugh. Yes, like a clown. Once again, I ask this question, for about the third time in the last 2 weeks, and probably the 100th time in the last 5 years-

    Why don't people who love Seagrave, Toyne, Crimson, Metz, Brand X, Brand Y or Brand Z all get up in arms and wind up in a corner in a fetal position sucking on their thumbs when their brand is targeted for verbal insults?

    Have a pleasant day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Why don't people who love Seagrave, Toyne, Crimson, Metz, Brand X, Brand Y or Brand Z all get up in arms and wind up in a corner in a fetal position sucking on their thumbs when their brand is targeted for verbal insults?
    As I've said before, the difference is that Pierce can't be mentioned on here without it becoming a bashing session. Furthermore, I can't seem to find any Toyne-bashing, Seagrave-bashing, or any other bashing threads on here, other than the Pierce ones. I did find someone bash CustomFire, but when I asked him what he didn't like the product, he wouldn't answer me.

    Not sucking my thumb here, just sick of every time Pierce is mentioned, it turns into a sarcasm-filled anti-Appleton thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    1. You are strapped into the most non-paraded-out, non-chromed, non bells-and-whistles and basic "working man's truck" you can find.

    2. As you break out into a cold sweat, a set of generic truck specifications (not written around Piece) is blotted against your skin, and rubbed vigorously into your head, so that you absorb the generic specs by osmosis.....

    3. Now, as you writhe in pain and discomfort, your jaw is forced open and water from the tank of the non-paraded-out, non-chromed, non bells-and-whistles and basic "working man's truck is poured into your mouth, and you are forced to swallow it.

    Once you have completed this basic detox, you attend the 12-step program.
    Sounds like you could cross out the name Pierce, and insert "Motorola".

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    Quote Originally Posted by IR1man View Post
    These comments don't contribute at all to THIS thread. If I desired to read these pointed opinions, I would go and review any other Apparatus related thread. Given the state of the overall Emergency Market (ALL MFGs) and economy in general these comments lack respct for the situation.

    Hope the best for all of those people and their families from all MFGs feeling the heavy burden of a slow industry.
    Overall state of the emergency market? The AFG revived the market, if you want to relive a poor market go back to the 90's. As the AFG is going to be trimmed back quite a bit, the downturn is going to START in 2012.

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    Every product has one mfg that seems to be the "target".

    It really doesn't matter if you are talking about fire trucks, ski boots or designer shirts. There is always one brand that comes off as smug or overratted or overpriced and for one reason or another, everybody hates them, except for the people that buy them. And they are usually in the top 2 or 3 in terms of market share.

    When I sold skiis and tennis rackets, it was Rossignol and Prince.

    When it comes to firetrucks, it's Pierce.

    I have never been on a department that has owned one, but have been around several that own them, and strangely enough, they seem to like them as many keep buying them over and over. Every brand has issues and Piecrs doesn't seem to have any more than anyone else.

    Right now I'm in a department that just buys Ferrera. My last department has bought 4 Stuphen engines and a Stuphen tower since 2001. Before that, I was one departments that bought trucks primarily from Middlesex and Maxim. And yes, all of them have thier share of problems but both have some very strong attributes, just like Pierce.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-18-2011 at 12:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    As I've said before, the difference is that Pierce can't be mentioned on here without it becoming a bashing session. Furthermore, I can't seem to find any Toyne-bashing, Seagrave-bashing, or any other bashing threads on here, other than the Pierce ones. I did find someone bash CustomFire, but when I asked him what he didn't like the product, he wouldn't answer me.

    Not sucking my thumb here, just sick of every time Pierce is mentioned, it turns into a sarcasm-filled anti-Appleton thread.
    And I can tell you where that all started/ There was this *** hat on here that ANY TIME anyone asked a question about, or had aproblem with any other brand of fire apparatus he would come on the topic and post "Should have bought a Pierce" OR "You wouldn't be having that problem if you bought Pierce." It was annoying as hell, especially when othes picked up on it and started doing the same thing.

    Hell, I don't give a damn if you buy a Pierce, some will mock me and my department for buying an HME Ahrens Fox, but we like it. And with the money we had we got a 2000 gpm/1000 gbt/30 gallons of foam custom cab rescue pumper. From Pierce we could afford a commercial chassis with half the toys we got from HME. Does that make Pierce a bad truck? Nope just an expensive one.

    You Pierce people really need to toughen up, none of you would last 5 minutes around the dinner table in my firehouse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Hell, I don't give a damn if you buy a Pierce, some will mock me and my department for buying an HME Ahrens Fox, but we like it.
    At the time that we purchased our Toyne, they were virtually unheard of in our neck of the woods. No one, with the exception of the diehard apparatus enthusiasts with their ears to the grapevine knew who Toyne was.

    We heard all the krap before the thing was even in our firehouse. Everyone called it "the toy." Or "The Farm Tractor." We let all the comments bounce off our thick skin.

    It went from the factory directly to the floor of the Pa Fire Expo, where many, many folks from our area stopped to look at it.

    Didn't hear many jokes after that. And as a matter of fact, a neighboring community ordered twin pumpers (guess who the other bidder was????)

    I guess a side affect of kool-aid is that it thins your skin.
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    I guess what I was trying to say - (and it may be a contridiction) is for the builders to offer more choices of program trucks. Such as a program type municipal plain jane / a rural plain jane , a plain jane rescue pumper etc. With the emphasis on function not form.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    And I can tell you where that all started/ There was this *** hat on here that ANY TIME anyone asked a question about, or had aproblem with any other brand of fire apparatus he would come on the topic and post "Should have bought a Pierce" OR "You wouldn't be having that problem if you bought Pierce." It was annoying as hell, especially when othes picked up on it and started doing the same thing.
    Yeah, and he's still here...he posted a month or two ago in fact. I actually used to laugh out loud at the ridiculousness of his posts.

    You Pierce people really need to toughen up, none of you would last 5 minutes around the dinner table in my firehouse.
    I'm not sure if this is directed towards me or not, but I'm quite certain I can hold my own at the FD dinner table.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    As I've said before, the difference is that Pierce can't be mentioned on here without it becoming a bashing session. Furthermore, I can't seem to find any Toyne-bashing, Seagrave-bashing, or any other bashing threads on here, other than the Pierce ones. I did find someone bash CustomFire, but when I asked him what he didn't like the product, he wouldn't answer me.

    Not sucking my thumb here, just sick of every time Pierce is mentioned, it turns into a sarcasm-filled anti-Appleton thread.
    So commenting on the overprice crap coming from Bradenton is fair game? Sounds like reasonable groundrules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say - (and it may be a contridiction) is for the builders to offer more choices of program trucks. Such as a program type municipal plain jane / a rural plain jane , a plain jane rescue pumper etc. With the emphasis on function not form.
    Most of the major mfg have such a line. Some from an alterntive design or factory. Typically limited option set. Often these are parts maintained in factory warehouse so you can get faster delivery.

    I think E-One has it right with their Tradition ES line. Design and materials are the same as their top of the line trucks (extruded aluminum construction with min. 3/16" thickness). Limited choice of bodies and features. Demo at FDIC certainly had a pretty economical price. And can still get a customcab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    So commenting on the overprice crap coming from Bradenton is fair game? Sounds like reasonable groundrules.
    Sure, if that's your thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say - (and it may be a contridiction) is for the builders to offer more choices of program trucks. Such as a program type municipal plain jane / a rural plain jane , a plain jane rescue pumper etc. With the emphasis on function not form.
    There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job done with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

    I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run more than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze a front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 05-19-2011 at 11:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job doe with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

    I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run moe than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze z front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.
    i remember that "Plain Jane". It was as basic as basic could get but for a whole bunch of departments it was more than likely everything they needed. Ferrera offers what they call a "state contract" 1000g/1250gpm engine, which while basic, has a couple of more bells and whistles then the "plain jane". In fact, it's what we buy for our outlying stations. You are allowed to add about $15,000 in options but we rarely add more than 5 or 6K. We buy 2-doors for the volunteer station and a 4-door state contract custom on an HME chassis for our Central Station. We did buy a plain jane state contract 3000g tanker-pumper a few years ago.

    As far as front mounts, it's too bad they have fallen out of favor though you still see some rural departments still buying them, especially for water supply engines. I started out on an old Dodge Power Wagon with a 750gpm front mount so they do have a place in my heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job doe with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

    I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run moe than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze z front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.
    I believe it was American Fire Apparatus. I remember their magazine ads from the 70's and 80's

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    Sure Pierce Mfg. builds a good truck, but they are over priced compared to other builders. Why pay $ 600k for a pumper when it could be built with the same specs for $500K from a smaller company. With todays economy hitting rock bottom, fire departments, and cities can not afford to spend extra for a apparatus just for a "brand name" !
    I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tillerman63 View Post
    I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.
    I'll tell the guys at work our 1250/600/30 Pierce rescue engine didn't really cost over $580K then. Other than the coffin compartments, a hydraulic generator, electric TNT pump, and light tower, it is a pretty standard engine. It is a nice rig, don't get me wrong, just in my mind a little pricey.

    My volly FD bought a 2000 gpm pump and this is why:
    1) Target hazards that require that kind of flow.
    2) Other than adding an additional discharge or 2, and the pump certification test costing a little more, it is EXACTLY the same pump that would get rated for 1500 gpm.
    3) Besides city water we have a creek that runs through town that we have a double dry hydrant located on near 2 of our target hazards that we can draft from to feed other engines with LDH.
    4) With a 2000 gpm pump you can still flow 1500 at 200 psi, or even 1000 at 250 psi. Quite an advantage of you ask me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tillerman63 View Post
    I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.
    $450k is the new $250k. I just glanced through the newest Fire Apparatus rag and couldn't believe the prices I saw for most of the pumpers. One was $758k! Of course it's hard to tell what is included in that price, but without a doubt apparatus costs are sky high!

    I'd settle for a used engine with no electronics on it and three more firefighters for the price of a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tillerman63 View Post
    I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.
    Many have bought into the concept that a mechanical siren (pick your favorite) shouldn't be an option, but standard. But if deleting it from the spec and saving 0.5% of the total purchase price makes you sleep easier at night, more power to you.

    As far as the "cookie cutter" trucks go, we have 6 E-One Traditions ES engines on Typhoon cabs. They work for what they are. Volunteer department has one on a Freightliner chassis and it works for us as a second in engine. We also have 3 Pierce Contenders, and they crews assigned to them would rather have something else. Smallest cab of any fire engine I have ever sat in. No thank you.

    Thankfully our last round of trucks were custom speced, and we went back with E-One.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tillerman63 View Post
    Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand.
    Shut your whorish mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tillerman63 View Post
    I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.



    http://www.lonestarpse.com/federal-s...cal-siren.html


    Brand: Federal Signal Q2B
    Regular Price: $1,276.58

    Specifications
    Voltage 12 VDC
    Operating Current 100A
    Sound Output 123 dB @ 10ft.
    Physical Specifications
    Length 14.0 in (35.6 cm)
    Diameter 10.0 in (25.4 cm)
    Height 10.5 in (26.7 cm)
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