Pierce Layoffs

[BoxAlarm187]

So commenting on the overprice crap coming from Bradenton is fair game? Sounds like reasonable groundrules.

Sure, if that's your thing.

[FyredUp]

I guess what I was trying to say - (and it may be a contridiction) is for the builders to offer more choices of program trucks. Such as a program type municipal plain jane / a rural plain jane , a plain jane rescue pumper etc. With the emphasis on function not form.

There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job done with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run more than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze a front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.

[LaFireEducator]

There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job doe with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run moe than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze z front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.

i remember that "Plain Jane". It was as basic as basic could get but for a whole bunch of departments it was more than likely everything they needed. Ferrera offers what they call a "state contract" 1000g/1250gpm engine, which while basic, has a couple of more bells and whistles then the "plain jane". In fact, it's what we buy for our outlying stations. You are allowed to add about $15,000 in options but we rarely add more than 5 or 6K. We buy 2-doors for the volunteer station and a 4-door state contract custom on an HME chassis for our Central Station. We did buy a plain jane state contract 3000g tanker-pumper a few years ago.

As far as front mounts, it's too bad they have fallen out of favor though you still see some rural departments still buying them, especially for water supply engines. I started out on an old Dodge Power Wagon with a 750gpm front mount so they do have a place in my heart.

[ffp20]

There used to be a company that manufactured a pumper called the "Plain Jane" it was built on a Ford comercial chassis like a F600 or F700 if I remember right. It had a gasoline engine and a standard transmission. The body had low side compartments both sides with ladders above on one side and hard suction above on the other. The pump was a 750 GPM American front mount and there was either one or two 1 1/2 inch discharges or a single 2 1/2 in the rear. It was a bare bones get the job doe with no frills pumper and was dirt cheap.

I tried and failed to get our village board to buy one. Instead we struggled for 20 plus years buying other people's problems they couldn't wait to unload. I know it isn't sexy but seriously, the front mount pump is about as close to idiot proof that you can come with a pump and it is the perfect choice for places that simply don't run moe than a couple of fires a year. Keep It Simple Stupid...heck my POC FD still has a tanker with a 1000 gpm Hale front mount on it. I can teach anyone how to run that in less than an hour. And since I know it will come up...NOPE, never froze z front mount pump up here. Cover them up, use the jacket heater that they come equipped with and no problems.

I believe it was American Fire Apparatus. I remember their magazine ads from the 70's and 80's

[tillerman63]

Sure Pierce Mfg. builds a good truck, but they are over priced compared to other builders. Why pay $ 600k for a pumper when it could be built with the same specs for $500K from a smaller company. With todays economy hitting rock bottom, fire departments, and cities can not afford to spend extra for a apparatus just for a "brand name" !

I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

[FyredUp]

I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

I'll tell the guys at work our 1250/600/30 Pierce rescue engine didn't really cost over $580K then. Other than the coffin compartments, a hydraulic generator, electric TNT pump, and light tower, it is a pretty standard engine. It is a nice rig, don't get me wrong, just in my mind a little pricey.

My volly FD bought a 2000 gpm pump and this is why:
1) Target hazards that require that kind of flow.
2) Other than adding an additional discharge or 2, and the pump certification test costing a little more, it is EXACTLY the same pump that would get rated for 1500 gpm.
3) Besides city water we have a creek that runs through town that we have a double dry hydrant located on near 2 of our target hazards that we can draft from to feed other engines with LDH.
4) With a 2000 gpm pump you can still flow 1500 at 200 psi, or even 1000 at 250 psi. Quite an advantage of you ask me.

[RFDACM02]

I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

$450k is the new $250k. I just glanced through the newest Fire Apparatus rag and couldn't believe the prices I saw for most of the pumpers. One was $758k! Of course it's hard to tell what is included in that price, but without a doubt apparatus costs are sky high!

I'd settle for a used engine with no electronics on it and three more firefighters for the price of a new one.

[GTRider245]

I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

Many have bought into the concept that a mechanical siren (pick your favorite) shouldn't be an option, but standard. But if deleting it from the spec and saving 0.5% of the total purchase price makes you sleep easier at night, more power to you.

As far as the "cookie cutter" trucks go, we have 6 E-One Traditions ES engines on Typhoon cabs. They work for what they are. Volunteer department has one on a Freightliner chassis and it works for us as a second in engine. We also have 3 Pierce Contenders, and they crews assigned to them would rather have something else. Smallest cab of any fire engine I have ever sat in. No thank you.

Thankfully our last round of trucks were custom speced, and we went back with E-One.

[FiremanLyman]

Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand.

Shut your whorish mouth.

[CaptOldTimer]

I would love to see the $600K pumper that you are talking about. Sure, load it up and it's 600K. Want to cut costs, delete the Federal Q2B siren that costs almost 3 grand. Oh, wait, but we have to have that. Drop down to a 1,250 pump. Oh wait, we MUST have that 2,000 GPM pump, even though we really have no way of feeding that monster, but it sounds good. See my point? Any manufacturer, and I mean any, can build a fairly priced and affordable pumper.

http://www.lonestarpse.com/federal-s...cal-siren.html


Brand: Federal Signal Q2B
Regular Price: $1,276.58

Specifications
Voltage 12 VDC
Operating Current 100A
Sound Output 123 dB @ 10ft.
Physical Specifications
Length 14.0 in (35.6 cm)
Diameter 10.0 in (25.4 cm)
Height 10.5 in (26.7 cm)
Ship Weight
49.0 lbs (23.0 kg)

[FIREMECH1]

http://www.lonestarpse.com/federal-s...cal-siren.html


Brand: Federal Signal Q2B
Regular Price: $1,276.58

Specifications
Voltage 12 VDC
Operating Current 100A
Sound Output 123 dB @ 10ft.
Physical Specifications
Length 14.0 in (35.6 cm)
Diameter 10.0 in (25.4 cm)
Height 10.5 in (26.7 cm)
Ship Weight
49.0 lbs (23.0 kg)

With the 3 engines and aerial/truck that we have on order, we spec'ed them to have mechanical Q's. We are getting them for about $900 each.

With the problems and issues of the EQ2B's, we WILL NOT, ever, EVER, spec them again.

FM1

[voyager9]

With the problems and issues of the EQ2B's, we WILL NOT, ever, EVER, spec them again.

FM1

You mean other then being confused with an Ambulance?

[FiremanLyman]

You mean other then being confused with an Ambulance?

This is a reason that I am a big advocate for a mechanical siren. Without a doubt, the Federal Q2 is the best, but even an old Wheelen mechanical siren is better than none at all. Really believe that using a Q is a big advantage, people hear the mechanical and are looking for a cop car or ambulance. No doubt that when a Q is screaming that a 20-some-ton fire truck is coming down the road. Not that it matters, drivers are supposed to yield right of way regardless of the type of emergency vehicle, but knowing what is coming at you in advance sure cuts down on the surprise factor that causes many driver to go into "stupid panic mode".

[Skysthelimit]

What about equipping fire trucks with a Train Horn (S) , Then you will stand out.

[FWDbuff]

What about equipping fire trucks with a Train Horn (S) , Then you will stand out.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.

[RetJaxFF]

Or all we do is READ the Forums and keep our mouth shut, that way we don't get our head handed to us, and our feelings hurt ..... )

Yeah, OK.

Because I have 2 POS Pierces, and have learned the problems of them (outside of cost for proprietary parts), I am an uninformed, and unlikely to help someone that has a problem with one???

Quite the opposite. I contribute to fixing the POS's, without calling them as I see them in the same post, or thread. That was there, this is here. If they need help, I'll give them the info, if I have it.

Bashing and whining is a go around with every MFG. Some have even chastised my beloved Spartans, without proof. Pierce has, well, more than that, across the country for problems. They also have an issue of sweeping things under the rug.

You be the judge, if it is warranted.

FM1

[FIREMECH1]

Or all we do is READ the Forums and keep our mouth shut, that way we don't get our head handed to us, and our feelings hurt ..... )

Head is still there, and was never removed. Feelings, totally intact, and cannot be hurt by anyone here.

If you don't like what I post, then move on. If the truth hurts, get over it.

FM1

[ADC120]

Just ordered a new tanker Monday with the EQ2B, plus we added the Rumbler to the rig. If they can't hear us, we'll shake them!

[Tim1118]

For Pierce, it's been good to be #1. However, when apparatus sales drop 50-60%, that means they take a much harder hit than everyone else. This is a good time for all of us to be putting pressure on our politicians to get our funding levels raised instead of shipping more money to other countries in the form of aid.

[Aerialguy11]

With the 3 engines and aerial/truck that we have on order, we spec'ed them to have mechanical Q's. We are getting them for about $900 each.

With the problems and issues of the EQ2B's, we WILL NOT, ever, EVER, spec them again.

FM1

Are you sure you're only paying $900.00 for a Q2B on your new Toynes? As the Spartan pricing (Sparcon) is at least double that..