1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    The chief showed me this truck the last time I passed through Salisbury. He stressed one point - that setup is for one purpose only - to take care of one of their members should it become necessary. They do not do transports or EMS for the public, the county's EMS can and does handle all of that.
    That makes a lot more sense, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquiry1 View Post
    You all have mentioned that the concept of combining the vehicles (in a sense) has been attempted before (like the examples given)... but also add that it has never been a success. It didn't do either job well. Could you all elaborate? What exactly was it that did not work, and if I was to create another concept, what would be most important to include and problem solve for??
    In the end this job really comes down to the people doing it. Give us something and we'll make it work. We'll b*tch about it, but then we'd do that no matter what we had. It's like being married to Sandra Bullock and cheating anyway!

    In our case, a smaller 4 wd. unit capable of bringing Fire/EMS personnel to any call, anywhere quickly would serve us best. On the fire side it need only ensure the personnel are equipped to be safe, and have hand tools and maybe an extinguisher, too much more and we'd rather have an engine or truck onscene rather than just enroute. On the medical side, it should carry everything an EMT/Medic would need to treat a patient. Oh, and make it transport capable too, thus cutting he needed number of units travelling the road to the same incident. Wait a minute? I think we already have some of these... Yep, just checked, 4x4 Type I ambulances with fire gear and hand tools. I guess we're all set.

    Can you help us get more staff? The best way would be to cut the cost of standard units to lower the FD's bottom line and move the money to the real issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    In the end this job really comes down to the people doing it. Give us something and we'll make it work. We'll b*tch about it, but then we'd do that no matter what we had. It's like being married to Sandra Bullock and cheating anyway!

    In our case, a smaller 4 wd. unit capable of bringing Fire/EMS personnel to any call, anywhere quickly would serve us best. On the fire side it need only ensure the personnel are equipped to be safe, and have hand tools and maybe an extinguisher, too much more and we'd rather have an engine or truck onscene rather than just enroute. On the medical side, it should carry everything an EMT/Medic would need to treat a patient. Oh, and make it transport capable too, thus cutting he needed number of units travelling the road to the same incident. Wait a minute? I think we already have some of these... Yep, just checked, 4x4 Type I ambulances with fire gear and hand tools. I guess we're all set.

    Can you help us get more staff? The best way would be to cut the cost of standard units to lower the FD's bottom line and move the money to the real issue.
    Can you show an example of the 4x4 Type I ambulance with fire gear and hand tools that you already have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquiry1 View Post
    Can you show an example of the 4x4 Type I ambulance with fire gear and hand tools that you already have?
    Aside from some interior medical compartment being tailored to fit our regional drug boxes; we run pretty much a standard version of these.

    http://www.wheeledcoach.com/firemedic_type1.asp

    We have purchased 7 of these over the last 3 years (all on 4X4 Ford chassis) and cover a 790+ Sq. Mile County of everything from metropolitan area to farm land to industrial.

    One run by a volunteer crew has a Hurst mini power unit & a combi tool, along with some basic hand tools in the street side rear compartment.

    Three that are run by Weekday Daylight career staff (M-F 05:30 - 18:00) and then used as second run trucks by volunteer crews are configured for the rear street side compartment to hold 2 SCBA's in the lower area and have shelf storage for 2 sets of Turn Out Gear in the top.

    A fourth (the truck I primarily ride) is the only 24/7 career staffed truck and it is configured like the 3 above with the SCBA & TOG storage. Additionally we have added a water can and a set of irons in the O2 cylinder compartment (front most street side) and 2 spare SCBA cylinders in the second (from the front) street side cabinet.

    On fire calls - we respond 1 & 1 with this piece and a engine to make a rapid initial (exterior) attack until we can be supplemented by volunteers and/or other career staff.

    I'll try to get some pictures of our specific compartment set-up next time I'm down there (I work p/t there as a fill-in).
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    Braun currently has a multi-use vehicle on the market. I saw it last year at FRI in Dallas:

    The Patriot, a versatile fire/rescue/transport apparatus in one unit featuring an ambulance body that is fully transport capable, with rescue compartments for equipment and can carry up to 200 gallons of water. The unit is also designed to have a Compressed Air Foam System (CAFS) system to hold and dispense up to 15 gallons of foam as well as two 1-inch booster reels on each side of the module. Engineered in response to the growing demands placed on fire departments across the country, the Patriot is designed to respond to more than 95% of all emergency calls, whether EMS-related, light rescue or a light suppression call, this unit is also ideal for volunteer fire departments without the manpower to staff several vehicles

    Again, really far too large to be an effective ambulance, and why would you want to take an supression capable vehicle out of service for an EMS transport? This is especially true if your only, or a klarge chunk of your limited supression personnel are tied up transporting in the ambo/fire truck.

    There was another maunufacter at Dallas that had a side loading EMS-transport capable unit with the remainder of the box setup for storage. It might be a fit if you use it as an ambo with technical rescue or water rescue abilities, but then again, why would you want to tie up specialized rescue gear in a vehicle that may be transporting a patient 20 miles away?

    I think the concept of combining any rescue or supression function with an EMS transport function just won't work.

    For a photo of the braun, just look at the website under products.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inquiry1 View Post
    Can you show an example of the 4x4 Type I ambulance with fire gear and hand tools that you already have?
    Sure, youi can have a basic look here: http://www.rocklandfd.com/apparatus.php
    Scroll down to the three ambulances. The newest and another replacement for the oldest coming this fall carry 2 SCBA and a few more small hand tools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Scroll down to the three ambulances. The newest and another replacement for the oldest coming this fall carry 2 SCBA and a few more small hand tools.
    Out of curiosity, do you really need the 4x4 option??? Not sure what your call area is, as well as your terrain when responding.

    We don't go rural, but like what Wheeled Coach puts out, as for a Type 1AD, on an International chassis.

    Our biggest issue is ride comfort. It's not bad, but the streets don't help any. It is also magnified by the use of air bags, that we need for dropping the rear for loading and unloading patients.

    The Med Teks aren't bad, but they don't have the ground clearance that is needed here, as well as the power to run up the hills.

    Not making a point, but that is our issue.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 05-18-2011 at 03:57 AM.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Out of curiosity, do you really need the 4x4 option??? Not sure what your call area is, as well as your terrain when responding.

    FM1
    Well, the easy answer is no we don't "need" it, but then we've had 4x4 ambulances for over 20 years and never had one stuck to the point of needing assistance. We have a significant portion of our first due that is very rural with numerous dirt road sub-divisions that either snow/ice covered or deep mud about 6 months of the year. Our crews run mutual aid runs about 30-45 miles round trip year-round with no issues, unlike our mutual aid neighbors with two wheel drives. It's about $10k more for a bit of piece of mind.

    We have yet to have any 4x4 issues with our trucks, that rarely see more than 50k miles in their 8-9 year lives. Our in-town runs are short and ride quality is surprisingly good. The big downside now is the necessity to use the F450 which requires an air lowering system to load stretchers.

    Our ambulance committee is speccing anew bus right now and the 4x4 question has once again come up. Some of us are hesitant also to have one truck that isn't with two that are. The theory that that one can be first due on bad weather/road conditions days discounts the number of double and triple calls we're starting to see much more routinely.

    Our area is right on the coast so throughout the winter our snow is often heavy and mixed resulting in a ton of slush. In my view asking other vehicles to pull over and then passing by them closely is safest when utilizing 4 wheel drive. Who knows this might be the year we stray given the increasing pricing on buses and our zero increase budget.

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    Thanks for the input all. Designing for more of a higher efficiency/4x4/smaller rescue vehicle for a fire house that incorporates enhanced safety features and systems, ride quality, and 4x4 capabilities seems like it may be beneficial.

    What do you think?

    Are there any specific issues or problems with the existing 4x4 vehicles? Anything a firefighter may desire in a vehicle like this?
    Last edited by Inquiry1; 05-24-2011 at 03:40 AM.

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