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    Default Never impressed by Infommercials, But......

    I am never impressed by infommercials, but today a product did get my attention.

    It was called the Dualsaw, and seemed pretty handy for very basic vehicle extrication which my VFD is looking to get into, while still using a neighboring department with hydraulic tools for the heavy-duty jobs.

    The plan is to purchase a combi-tool within 2-3 years and still use the neighboring combo department for truck extrication and the like beyond that point.

    This saw seemed like a pretty handy tool until we get to the point of purchasing a combi-tool. It looked like it could do everything a recip saw could do an a little more. The product was shown cutting posts and medium gauge metals on vehicles including a torsion bar. It also looked like quite handy for light duty collapse operations as it cut through rebar and tin pretty easily.

    The one thing it didn't show was laminated glass.

    Again though, it was an infommercial.

    I was wondering if anyone out there had any real world experience with it.
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    Dude come in to the new millennia, thing has been around for some time.
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    Sears has their version for around 100.00

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    Buy a GOOD(13 amp +)'Cip saw and some QUALITY blades you'll be happier. The Dual,while a Nice tool,doesn't have the effective depth to be a stand alone. The 'cip saw will do a LOT more. Combis are OK but you can get a DECENT used set today pretty reasonable then upgrade the cutter when you can afford to. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Buy a GOOD(13 amp +)'Cip saw and some QUALITY blades you'll be happier. The Dual,while a Nice tool,doesn't have the effective depth to be a stand alone. The 'cip saw will do a LOT more. Combis are OK but you can get a DECENT used set today pretty reasonable then upgrade the cutter when you can afford to. T.C.
    We currently have an electric recip saw which we carry.

    We also currently have an older (and very heavy) Hurst spreader which we are in the process of mounting on the used Hush pumper we have recently brought into service (purchased from CA) and designated for interstate and MVA operations due to the tremendous amount of compartment space and it's a crew cab. We currently have no cutters.

    I am in the process of purchasing a battery powered DeWalt 18 volt recip saw as well to supplement the electric saw as well as 4x4's for approx 40 pieces of cribbing so that we can start glass cutting and stabilization operations once we bring the troops up to speed this summer.

    I was watching TV today and came across the dual saw on TV and noted that it seems like it can do few more things that the recip saw and appears it may be able to do them quicker with less vibration and noise. Our budget starts for next year in July and was looking at purchasing it in addition to the 18v recip depending on the feedback I got here and at Firefighternation.

    We are committed to tools within the next 2 years, 3 years max, but the budget is limited.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Sears has their version for around 100.00
    Have you used in personally?

    How would it work on cutting posts in a worst-case situation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We currently have an electric recip saw which we carry.

    We also currently have an older (and very heavy) Hurst spreader which we are in the process of mounting on the used Hush pumper we have recently brought into service (purchased from CA) and designated for interstate and MVA operations due to the tremendous amount of compartment space and it's a crew cab. We currently have no cutters.

    I am in the process of purchasing a battery powered DeWalt 18 volt recip saw as well to supplement the electric saw as well as 4x4's for approx 40 pieces of cribbing so that we can start glass cutting and stabilization operations once we bring the troops up to speed this summer.

    I was watching TV today and came across the dual saw on TV and noted that it seems like it can do few more things that the recip saw and appears it may be able to do them quicker with less vibration and noise. Our budget starts for next year in July and was looking at purchasing it in addition to the 18v recip depending on the feedback I got here and at Firefighternation.

    We are committed to tools within the next 2 years, 3 years max, but the budget is limited.
    We have our disagreements. I've been doing extrication for over 33 years and I WON'T have a Cordless saw on the Rig Unless it's a backup. If You already have a hurst spreader on the rig, save your bottlecaps and buy a GOOD hurst cutter when you can. The old spreader will do damn near as much as a new one,the place you need NEW is in the cutter. As far as the dualsaw,we MAY get one for the rig, but it doesn't have the DEPTH you can get with a 9" blade on the cip saw. OH and you need BIG amps(and preferably a LONG stroke)on your 'cip saw for maximum efficiency. I DISAGREE with the dual being a better all around tool,it IS better for a few operations.High amp saw and GOOD blades are the key to the 'cipsaws versatility. I've had Great luck with the Milwaukee Torch blade series but there are other good ones on the market. We Beta tested a Cordless saw but it came off the Rig quick,batteries just didn't hold up. Just a few musings based on a LOT of car destruction. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    We have our disagreements. I've been doing extrication for over 33 years and I WON'T have a Cordless saw on the Rig Unless it's a backup. If You already have a hurst spreader on the rig, save your bottlecaps and buy a GOOD hurst cutter when you can. The old spreader will do damn near as much as a new one,the place you need NEW is in the cutter. As far as the dualsaw,we MAY get one for the rig, but it doesn't have the DEPTH you can get with a 9" blade on the cip saw. OH and you need BIG amps(and preferably a LONG stroke)on your 'cip saw for maximum efficiency. I DISAGREE with the dual being a better all around tool,it IS better for a few operations.High amp saw and GOOD blades are the key to the 'cipsaws versatility. I've had Great luck with the Milwaukee Torch blade series but there are other good ones on the market. We Beta tested a Cordless saw but it came off the Rig quick,batteries just didn't hold up. Just a few musings based on a LOT of car destruction. T.C.
    There is discussion about getting a cutter v. getting a combi tool as the Hurst pump and spreader are fairly old, very heavy and came with the engine from CA in a year or two when we have the budget to make a commitment to tools.

    The electric recip saw will be the primary and the new 18v will be the secondary. It will give us the ability to cut glass on multiple vehicles at the same time as needed.

    Looking at it with the limited info I have right now, I can see the dualsaw being a secondary tool as well, or potentially a quieter glass tool while the electric recip can work on other tasks, such as the posts. I can also see some uses in collapse operations and even to make nice clean wall cuts on routine structure incidents.

    I have used the recip saw for several years on both my current FT gig and my previous VFD in VT and agree it's a great tool and the primary power tool for extrication ops. I'm just curious about the capabilities of the dualsaw v. the recip and if it's worth the investment as another tool in the box or as a secondary tool.

    Again, until we purchase tools we are looking at stabilization and glass management as our primary operations as myself and only one other member has significant extrication experience and training. We are looking at being able to cut posts and do some roof removals in a pinch when both fully equipped heavys are unavailable or delayed with the recips and now possibly the dualsaw. The plan is the gradually build up some experience and training with the basics before buying tools.

    Next budget year we are also looking as purchasing some 6x6 cribbing and possibility some hydraulic jacks for truck stabilization as we cover about 9 miles of I-20.

    We are lucky in that my full-time FD is just down the road and has some fairly heavy duty tools in the box including struts, high and low pressure bags as well as some other neat gear. The combo department in the parish, which is our primary, has a fairly good assortment of tools as well.

    This is going to be slow, gradual process with an endpoint of handling our own, basic car and light /meduim duty pickup extrication within 3 years.

    Thanks for your input. Is there anyone else using a daulsaw for any vehicle operations?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-29-2011 at 10:00 PM.
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    As a contractor in my full time occupation, I have job tested many power tools over the last 30 years.
    Don't buy any other reciprocating saw other than the Milwaukee 13 amp with the allen bolt blade lock and quick change cord.. I have burned up makita, dewalt and bosch saws while my 30 yo milwaukee keeps on cutting. Porter cable comes in second. stay away from the quick change blade holders as they tend to get very sloppy quickly and after a short time they will not lock the blades in tight.

    I do have a 19.2 volt Lithium Ion battery powered set that is fine for small short duration cutting , especially when working on staging or up on pump towers. But for extrication they just don't have the stamina for long term cutting of cars. you need to keep a supply of charged batteries handy for that


    Yes I own a sears dual blade circular saw and use it regularly for metal roofing and abrasive material such as FRP panels and lexan /lucite sheet goods. It will cut windshields and plastic composite panels faster than a sawsall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    As a contractor in my full time occupation, I have job tested many power tools over the last 30 years.
    Don't buy any other reciprocating saw other than the Milwaukee 13 amp with the allen bolt blade lock and quick change cord.. I have burned up makita, dewalt and bosch saws while my 30 yo milwaukee keeps on cutting. Porter cable comes in second. stay away from the quick change blade holders as they tend to get very sloppy quickly and after a short time they will not lock the blades in tight.

    I do have a 19.2 volt Lithium Ion battery powered set that is fine for small short duration cutting , especially when working on staging or up on pump towers. But for extrication they just don't have the stamina for long term cutting of cars. you need to keep a supply of charged batteries handy for that


    Yes I own a sears dual blade circular saw and use it regularly for metal roofing and abrasive material such as FRP panels and lexan /lucite sheet goods. It will cut windshields and plastic composite panels faster than a sawsall.
    Thanks for that last bit of info.

    Our electric saw is a Milwaukee. My combo department has a Dewalt 18V battery recip saw which has held up pretty well.

    I did not find any 18v Milwaukees at either Home Depot or Lowes. Could you point me in a direction to look to?

    They did have a Porter Cable 13v lith battery recip saw that interested me but the sales goof could tell me very little about it.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 05-29-2011 at 09:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Thanks for that last bit of info.

    Our electric saw is a Milwaukee. My combo department has a Dewalt 18V battery recip saw which has held up pretty well.

    I did not find any 18v Milwaukees at either Home Depot or Lowes. Could you point me in a direction to look to?

    They did have a Porter Cable 13v lith battery recip saw that interested me but the sales goof could tell me very little about it.
    Don't buy tools from big box stores. They are not the same quality as the tools sold to the trades.
    Milwaukee tools are generally available in plumbing supply houses and dewalt in electrical supply houses.
    W W Granger carries the full milwaukee line. they have the 18volt LI tool line
    They are located all over the country or on line.

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    Why buy another saw for glass cutting? If you're really that concerned about having a second glass cutting tool, either buy a GlassMaster, or go to the big-box store and buy a $7 drywall handsaw. If you're already using a good sawzall, windshield removal shouldn't take but about 30 seconds anyhow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Thanks for that last bit of info.

    Our electric saw is a Milwaukee. My combo department has a Dewalt 18V battery recip saw which has held up pretty well.

    I did not find any 18v Milwaukees at either Home Depot or Lowes. Could you point me in a direction to look to?

    They did have a Porter Cable 13v lith battery recip saw that interested me but the sales goof could tell me very little about it.
    DO NOT waste your money on the 18 V Milwaukee. While I'm in general agreement with my esteemed Island Brother,That POS 18V saw is the one we took off our rig. The SAW is great,it just eats batteries in HD Extrication. In Thousands of vehicles, cut both in practice and reality I've NEVER had a problem with my Milwaukees quik change. Your newly acquired pump and spreader will work just fine,even on todays cars.. BTW, ALL Low pressure Hurst spreades are HEAVY,try a new one it isn't much lighter. We recently replaced our entire Hydraulic Rescue set along with our airbags. The spreader could still do it's job in most cases but the cutter was sorely lacking. That's why I told you to hold out for a new or late model cutter,your current pump will run a new Hurst cutter just fine. Have it serviced by Hurst techs.What amperage is your current electric saw? If you will have two cip saws by all means try the dual,it has its purpose. Personally,we use the cip saws for interior work.have for years with good results. For glass it's the 18Tpi 6" Torch blade or Splurge and get a Glassmaster which is one of the best glass tools out there. Not too expensive either,the Quik cut is $129 at Rescuetoolman.com T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    DO NOT waste your money on the 18 V Milwaukee. While I'm in general agreement with my esteemed Island Brother,That POS 18V saw is the one we took off our rig. The SAW is great,it just eats batteries in HD Extrication. In Thousands of vehicles, cut both in practice and reality I've NEVER had a problem with my Milwaukees quik change. Your newly acquired pump and spreader will work just fine,even on todays cars.. BTW, ALL Low pressure Hurst spreades are HEAVY,try a new one it isn't much lighter. We recently replaced our entire Hydraulic Rescue set along with our airbags. The spreader could still do it's job in most cases but the cutter was sorely lacking. That's why I told you to hold out for a new or late model cutter,your current pump will run a new Hurst cutter just fine. Have it serviced by Hurst techs.What amperage is your current electric saw? If you will have two cip saws by all means try the dual,it has its purpose. Personally,we use the cip saws for interior work.have for years with good results. For glass it's the 18Tpi 6" Torch blade or Splurge and get a Glassmaster which is one of the best glass tools out there. Not too expensive either,the Quik cut is $129 at Rescuetoolman.com T.C.
    My FT gig has a Glassmaster and it does work well.

    The decision regarding the route we are going to take with the tools is at least a year away as we have several other needs budgeted for the 2011 (July 2011-July 2012) budget. Likely the tool purchase will be made in the 12-13 budget if revenues permit. At this point we are going to get the pump and spreader serviced and running fine and just go with that at this point until the next budget cycle. There certainly is some merit to purchasing just a cutter for the big tools.

    We will have an electric and battery recip saw. I'm looking at the dual as a second glass tool. I also see the dual having some collapse and structural uses as well.

    Again, extrication is very new to most of these guys including most of the command staff, so we're going to take it in baby steps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xchief23 View Post
    Why buy another saw for glass cutting? If you're really that concerned about having a second glass cutting tool, either buy a GlassMaster, or go to the big-box store and buy a $7 drywall handsaw. If you're already using a good sawzall, windshield removal shouldn't take but about 30 seconds anyhow.
    Biggest thing with the dual was the way it cut metal as compare to a sawzall, especially the posts. While a sawzall will cut pots as I have done in several times, the dual appears to be much faster and quieter, and safer as well.

    This is not something we plan to do on a regular basis as we have 2 better equipped heavys within 15 minutes (one responds automatically) but there are times when potentially both may not be available and we may be able to perform certain tasks with the dual we can't with sawzalls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    hahaha! I love it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Biggest thing with the dual was the way it cut metal as compare to a sawzall, especially the posts. While a sawzall will cut pots as I have done in several times, the dual appears to be much faster and quieter, and safer as well.

    This is not something we plan to do on a regular basis as we have 2 better equipped heavys within 15 minutes (one responds automatically) but there are times when potentially both may not be available and we may be able to perform certain tasks with the dual we can't with sawzalls.
    Quiet? Oh you are a hoot. It WILL cut posts,QUIET............It AIN'T. T.C.

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