Closed Thread
Page 2 of 12 First 12345 ... Last
  1. #26
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I have said it before, I am saying it again- this is precisely why pubic hair booby should be dismissed from FH forums permanently; due to conduct unbecoming of a firefighter. Its not about freedom of speech, some of you have stated he has that right, and yes he certainly does have the right to freedom of speech- but he does not have the right to act or even talk about acting in a manner that goes against the one principle that binds each and every one of us together- the desire to serve and protect our fellow
    Man. Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
    to do anything.

    This is why I believe the Webteam should dismiss him permanently. They claim to have ties to the fire service- ok, show us. DO THE RIGHT THING AND PERMANENTLY DISMISS BOOBY THE PUBIC HAIR.
    You believe that we have the obligation to attempt every rescue in every situation because we are firefighters.

    I beleive that as firefighters we have the obligation to perform rescues when the victim is viable, the situation is within the training and resources of the personnel on hand, and that we have the proper equipment and tools to conduct the rescue.

    If I'm off-duty, and have no PPE, tools or equipment, the rescue is choice not an obligation. People are going to die. Call that cavalier if you want, but bottom line is unequipped rescuers are nothing but additional victims/patients waiting to happen. And there is a reasonable chance that the rescuers will die as without without saving the victim(s).

    As a previous poster said, sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing.

    I don't know of a recognized fire training agency that says you put your life on the line without the resources, training, experience and equipment to do so. If there are any, please direct me to them. Every training class I have ever attended it was made quite clear that our safety is paramount.

    And by the way, here's another guiding principal that has been accepted pretty widely throughout the fire service - "Everyone Goes Home".

    Simply keep me out of these threads if you have an issue with my opinion. Frankly, I don't care what kind of risks firefighters take on their off-time.

    (And by the way, this thread was about untrained, unequipped civilian rescuers)
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-26-2011 at 07:56 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  2. #27
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I had no intention of posting until you posted your little "Bossier Parish" gem.

    I have a good idea ..... Next time somebody posts on of these wonderful civilian or off-duty firefighter threads, just keep me out of it and I won't post.
    Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As a previous poster said, sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing.
    Or in your case, it takes a coward to do nothing.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  3. #28
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    To FWDbuff:
    "You believe that we have the obligation to attempt every rescue in every situation because we are firefighters." LA
    Wow, tossing a giant bs flag on this one. With such a grandiose statement, I beg of you to find a single post or quote that from FWDbuff that states that. I will wager that you will discover many quotes that will allude to training, size-up, conditions, and personal experience needed to affect such rescue attempts.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  4. #29
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

    Wrong.

    If nobody invites me to the party on this subject I have nothing to add.

    Once I'm invited, that's life.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  5. #30
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
    to do anything.


    That's a quote from FWDs last post on this thread.

    The interpretation on that is that he has the expectation that as a firefighter I should take some type of action.

    People die in fires. people die in wrecks. And there are times that they cannot be saved nor should they attempted to be saved if we are not in the right position with the right resources to make an attempt.

    Everyone Goes Home. Except at times, the victim, but we have the right to make that choice.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  6. #31
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So I hijacked this thread?

    Given that there was one direct reference to "Bossier Parish" and 2 other posts references clearly targeted at me before I ever posted, I would hardly call that hijacking.

    I had no intention of posting until you posted your little "Bossier Parish" gem.

    I have a good idea ..... Next time somebody posts on of these wonderful civilian or off-duty firefighter threads, just keep me out of it and I won't post.

    It's really that easy.
    He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

    WTG!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #32
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

    Wrong.

    If nobody invites me to the party on this subject I have nothing to add.

    Once I'm invited, that's life.
    And you're also a liar. Imagine that.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  8. #33
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the southeast.
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

    WTG!
    THis is all I said Chief:

    Lucky for that guy he was in PA and not Bossier Parrish, LA. I'm just sayin'.
    He's the one that couldn't resist responding. I honestly believe that he searches the forums for keywords such as LA, Bossier Parrish, etc. just to see if there is something to respond to.

    If you trully don't care what we think LA I challenge you to not respond to what other people say to you for a month, we'll see then.

  9. #34
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,420

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

    WTG!
    Man love? I have so much hate and disdain for him that were he across the street from me and on fire, I wouldn't cross the street to **** on him. (no bunker gear, wouldn't want to get hurt after all......)
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  10. #35
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    How can you reference him and NOT expect him to reply?

    Gimme a break....

    Look, you like going back and forth, whatever... different strokes, I guess.

    But don't moan when he shows up in a thread where there are comments made that all but mention him by name.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #36
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    He would have replied anyway despite his lie that he would have simply ignored it. His participation in this thread was inevitable from the moment it was created. He can't resist. I've never seen a coward actually brag and flaunt his cowardice. Usually its something people hide about themselves.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  12. #37
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
    to do anything.


    That's a quote from FWDs last post on this thread.

    The interpretation on that is that he has the expectation that as a firefighter I should take some type of action.
    Ok, for the sake of fairness, please dissect out what part of that quote you glean that interpretation.
    People die in fires. people die in wrecks. And there are times that they cannot be saved nor should they attempted to be saved if we are not in the right position with the right resources to make an attempt.

    Everyone Goes Home. Except at times, the victim, but we have the right to make that choice.
    The witless statement "everybody goes home" has bastardized the fire service to the point of doing nothing is acceptable in even the most basic situations, including training. As soon as a complex situation presents itself, this new breed if over-educated, under-experienced managers completely vapor lock. Compounding the situation to the point a death is inevitable. Much like the chain of events that cause accidents.
    Unless we, as a fire service, quit responding and completely neglect the very premise of this profession, a zero sum LODD is impossible.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  13. #38
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    The witless statement "everybody goes home" has bastardized the fire service to the point of doing nothing is acceptable in even the most basic situations, including training. As soon as a complex situation presents itself, this new breed if over-educated, under-experienced managers completely vapor lock. Compounding the situation to the point a death is inevitable. Much like the chain of events that cause accidents.
    Unless we, as a fire service, quit responding and completely neglect the very premise of this profession, a zero sum LODD is impossible.
    Not even I beleive that LODDs can ever be reduced to zero. There will always be the unpredicatble events. However, the phrase Everyone Goes Home refers to reducing the number of predictable LODDS.

    Incidents such as departments making interior attacks with inadequate manpower or resorces. Members operating inside structures for property when somebody should see an obvious danger. membedrs working inside collapse zones on a well involved building. Apparatus accidents due to speed or intersection management. All likely events where an LODD is possible yet we as a service continue to do it in incidents where the outcome has likely already been determined.

    I was just in the can reading a NIOSH LODD report where a rural department with 5 members on scene made an interior attack into a house with an intial report of heavy smoke from the attic. Why make entry? Prime example of operating interior with inadequate manpower, most likley with limited experience in training, in a situation, given the resources where the outcome has likely been determined before they arrived. Those are the types of situations addressed in "Everybody Goes Home".

    And yes, operating off-duty without PPE, tools or equipment, IMO, does fall into that catagory. For that reason, my size-up will almost always say no. As cruel and heartless as it may sound to some, it simply ain't my problem if I don't have the skills, resources and equipment to deal with it. It may be cold but yes, my life, and our lives have equal priority with the victim, and concequences to us have equal value with concequences to the victim(s).
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-27-2011 at 10:30 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  14. #39
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So it's really a good idea to encourage civilian rescuers after we, as professionals,
    What do you mean "we?"

    Since when have you ever been a professional?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #40
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, operating off-duty without PPE, tools or equipment, IMO, does fall into that catagory. For that reason, my size-up will almost always say no. As cruel and heartless as it may sound to some, it simply ain't my problem if I don't have the skills, resources and equipment to deal with it. It may be cold but yes, my life, and our lives have equal priority with the victim, and concequences to us have equal value with concequences to the victim(s).
    It's cool. Not everyone is cut out to be a firefighter.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  16. #41
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What do you mean "we?"

    Since when have you ever been a professional?
    ...... For most of my volunteer career.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #42
    105
    105 is offline
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I was just in the can reading a NIOSH LODD report where a rural department with 5 members on scene made an interior attack into a house with an intial report of heavy smoke from the attic. Why make entry? Prime example of operating interior with inadequate manpower, most likley with limited experience in training, in a situation, given the resources where the outcome has likely been determined before they arrived. Those are the types of situations addressed in "Everybody Goes Home".
    You realize it's not the above that people have issues with - safety should be well-entrenched on the fireground. Take acceptable risks - not unacceptable ones. But rather the following that really raises people's gall:

    And yes, operating off-duty without PPE, tools or equipment, IMO, does fall into that catagory. For that reason, my size-up will almost always say no. As cruel and heartless as it may sound to some, it simply ain't my problem if I don't have the skills, resources and equipment to deal with it. It may be cold but yes, my life, and our lives have equal priority with the victim, and concequences to us have equal value with concequences to the victim(s).
    This attitude just makes you a coward. You are, by virtue of having gone through a number of firefighting training courses such as confined space rescue and medical first response, better trained than the public. So, barring anyone around with proper protective gear, you'd rather just let someone die than get your hands dirty. Even worse, you may let other people without any training try to help, thereby possibly adding them as a victim as well. Nobody is saying you have to dive into a flashover to pull out granny, but you should be at least willing to help out in a situation where you end up being the most qualified person on-scene to do so.

    There are few places in the fire service for cowboys, but absolutely no f*cking place in the fire service for cowards.

  18. #43
    makes good girls go bad
    BLSboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    On the beach, Fla/OCNJ
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    Booby, thank God you have nothing to do with the defense of this great nation. it is widely understood and accepted, while not at all liked, that in war, good men die to defend this nation. This "EGH" bullshiite, which was stolen from the FOOLS, has done some good, reinforcing better eating habits, working out, but to use it as an excuse to not put your pretty little princess *** on the line is downright disgraceful. You took an oath (I presume) to save lives and protect property. SO DO IT!!
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  19. #44
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 105 View Post
    You realize it's not the above that people have issues with - safety should be well-entrenched on the fireground. Take acceptable risks - not unacceptable ones. But rather the following that really raises people's gall:



    This attitude just makes you a coward. You are, by virtue of having gone through a number of firefighting training courses such as confined space rescue and medical first response, better trained than the public. So, barring anyone around with proper protective gear, you'd rather just let someone die than get your hands dirty. Even worse, you may let other people without any training try to help, thereby possibly adding them as a victim as well. Nobody is saying you have to dive into a flashover to pull out granny, but you should be at least willing to help out in a situation where you end up being the most qualified person on-scene to do so.

    There are few places in the fire service for cowboys, but absolutely no f*cking place in the fire service for cowards.
    During my career I have probably assisted in emergencies 40 or 50 times off-duty or out of district including medical emergencies, MVAs on the roadway and a cardiac arrest at a famous NYC ballpark. I have no problems in doing what I can in situations where my personal safety is at not risk. That being said, I generally have a full set of PPE excluding SCBA in my vehicle plus at least one and often 2 20lb ABC extinguishers and a few prying tools. If I can perform an operation safely with those items, I will make an attempt, however, if I cannot be assured of my safety without further equipment, tools, or PPE, it's not my responsibility to attempt a rescue.

    There are issues with fire district personnel operating as first respionders if we run intio a situation in both neighboring cities that are very long standing, and because of that, it is very rare that I will stop or assist at an event in those places if the FD has not yet arrived on scene. Most of the fire districts have no issues with trained personnel stopping at at ascene prior to thier arrival and rendering care or begiining a rescue within the confines of the equipment and training they bring to the scene in thier POV.

    When in my wife's vehicle I have no PPE available to me except for a bunker coat, helmet and a 10 lb extinguisher.

    The simple fact is we have responsibilities to our famailies as well as the victims. This ies especially true where financial issues do come into play. Sorry, but I do have a responsibility to provide for them as well as my responsibility to the victim. In this state there are very limited financial protections for personnel operating off-duty or as a volunteer. If putting the financial needs of my family ahead of a supposed duty to the public off-duty makes me a coward, so be it.

    Using some of the posters logic, wouldn't career firefighters living in a combo or volunteer district have an obligation to volunteer in thier home areas? After all, they do have an obligation to use thier skills to save lives off-duty, right?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-27-2011 at 11:54 AM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #45
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Booby, thank God you have nothing to do with the defense of this great nation. it is widely understood and accepted, while not at all liked, that in war, good men die to defend this nation. This "EGH" bullshiite, which was stolen from the FOOLS, has done some good, reinforcing better eating habits, working out, but to use it as an excuse to not put your pretty little princess *** on the line is downright disgraceful. You took an oath (I presume) to save lives and protect property. SO DO IT!!
    War is a very different situation than firefighting.

    And by the way, in none of the 9 departments I have served with, have I never sworn an oath.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  21. #46
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the southeast.
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    War is a very different situation than firefighting.

    And by the way, in none of the 9 departments I have served with, have I never sworn an oath.
    Wrong to the first and doesn't surprise me on the second.

    The fire scene is the only thing close to war in the civilian world. It's not very different at all. How would I know you ask, maybe you should check out my profile. Have you been to war Mr. LA? If not, then please do the rest of us military guys a favor and don't try to pretend that you know a damned thing about it.

    I know that when I was at Dalton a took an oath when I swore in. I swore to protect the citizens of that good city that provided me with one of the best lifestyles in the world. I call it a lifestyle because it's not just a job, you have to live it. No, I've never taken an oath at a vollie department, I'm sure some have though. But just about every paid department I know of worth it's salt makes their employees take an oath or swear in.

  22. #47
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
    Wrong to the first and doesn't surprise me on the second.

    The fire scene is the only thing close to war in the civilian world. It's not very different at all. How would I know you ask, maybe you should check out my profile. Have you been to war Mr. LA? If not, then please do the rest of us military guys a favor and don't try to pretend that you know a damned thing about it.

    I know that when I was at Dalton a took an oath when I swore in. I swore to protect the citizens of that good city that provided me with one of the best lifestyles in the world. I call it a lifestyle because it's not just a job, you have to live it. No, I've never taken an oath at a vollie department, I'm sure some have though. But just about every paid department I know of worth it's salt makes their employees take an oath or swear in.
    In war, you are in combat fighting for the lives of your buddies. You have very few choices as about performing your duty as lives of the other members of the unit are more often than not depending on your actions.

    In war, actions and risks are often dictated by the actions of the enemy. In war, actions are often dicatated by the objectives and battle plans of your superiors, or their superiors, or thier superiors.

    In firefighting, the vast majority of the time there are no lives at stake, only property. This is especially true in the rural enviroment where the sad reality is if there are victims inside on our arrival, which is VERY rare, due to the often extended response times and often extent of the fire conditions, they are dead long before our arrival, and our actions will have no effect on the outcome. We do have a choice, and very often it's the wiser choice not to commit interior crews in essentailly a body recovery operation that could result in the detah or injury to fire department personnel.

    I can honestly say in 31 years of doing this, I have encountered a situation with victims inside less than 10 times. And maybe another 10 of reported victims that turned out to be inaccurate.

    An there are times when you run into a rescue that you simply are not trained or equipped for. Again, we have a choice ... our safety v. the victim, and there are times when we simply have to say no and at times, accept the death of the victim, esopecially if it's likely ghe/she isn't viable given the situation, if we are not trained and/or equipped for the operation.

    As far as fires where property is envolved, we always have a choice. Always. We always have the right to say no and simply extinguish the fire from the exterior.

    So no, firefighting is not like combat as we more often tyhan not we have a variety of choices entailing a variety of risk. We do have choices in how much action we take and how much we decide to risk in just about every situation, inlike combat, where the situation is often forced upon the troops.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-27-2011 at 12:52 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  23. #48
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the southeast.
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    In war, you are in combat fighting for the lives of your buddies. You have very few choices as about performing your duty as lives of the other members of the unit are more often than not depending on your actions.
    Hmmm, souds suspiciously like being interior or being the vent crew. Other firefighter's lives depend onr YOUR actions, or your case, in-action.

    In war, actions and risks are often dictated by the actions of the enemy. In war, actions are often dicatated by the objectives and battle plans of your superiors, or their superiors, or thier superiors.
    Again, a lot like when you're interior and te fire takes a turn for the worse. YOu have to make a decision, stay or go? CAn I take the enemy down, or do I need to retreat?

    In firefighting, the vast majority of the time there are no lives at stake, only property. This is especially true in the rural enviroment where the sad reality is is there are victims inside, which is VERY rare, due to the often extended response times and often extent of the fire conditions, they are dead long before our arrival, and our actions will have no effect on the outcome. We do have a choice, and very often it's the wiser choice not to commit interior crews in essentailly a body recovery operation that could result in the detah or injury to fire department personnel.
    ANd nobody here has stated to go interior for a lost cause either. But you have stated time and time again that you wouldn't if you thought in the least it might be marginal. Turd.

    An there are times when you run into a rescue that you simply are not trained or equipped for. Again, we have a choice ... our safety v. the victim, and there are times when we simply have to say no and at times, accept the death of the victim, esopecially if it's likely ghe/she isn't viable given the situation, if we are not trained and/or equipped for the operation.
    Yep, and tere are conflicts we run into that we aren't specifically trained for. It's called adapt and overcome. YOu can do tis in a safe manner.

    As far as fires where property is envolved, we always have a choice. Always. We always have the right to say no and simply extinguish the fire from the exterior.
    Yeah, and you have the choice to retreat if the battle is seen to not be in your favor.

    So no, firefighting is not like comabt as we often have choices in how much action we take and how much we decide to risk.
    So do our commanders in combat, much like the IC. So again, you're wrong!

  24. #49
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,660

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firefightinirish217 View Post
    Hmmm, souds suspiciously like being interior or being the vent crew. Other firefighter's lives depend onr YOUR actions, or your case, in-action.

    Obviously once you decide and commit to an interior operation, you need to perform ventialtion to support the interior operation, and you need to take specific actions interior to accomplish the stragety. Yes, if you go interior, everyone's actions may depend on the pump operator, the vent crew or any other tactical objective.

    However, my point is that we do have several options in addition to interior ops including doing nothing ansd simply allow the building (or vehicles, brush, trash, etc.) to burn, deck gun operations only and exterior handlines/moniters only. In combat if your superiors say attack and overrun this xxxxxxx there are minimal options for the unit commander as he as been ordered to achieve a specific objective.




    Again, a lot like when you're interior and te fire takes a turn for the worse. YOu have to make a decision, stay or go? CAn I take the enemy down, or do I need to retreat?

    Again, we have several options short of interior attack. Sure pulling out of an interior attack and going defensive if things go bad is an option, but it's not an option upon arrival.



    ANd nobody here has stated to go interior for a lost cause either. But you have stated time and time again that you wouldn't if you thought in the least it might be marginal. Turd.

    I have stated time and time again that marginal situations are very dependant on manpower, water supply, training, experience and command structure. I have stated that my combo department is much more capable than my current VFD due to a much higher level of training and experience, as well as a superior manpower response, and yes, I would be far more likely to make an interior attack responding with them as compared to my current VFD.That being said, my previous VFD was as capable as my current combo department, especially once we implemented an AMA plan, and I would have no issue operating interior with them as I currently do with my combo department.

    So yes, in the current situation on both my combo and volunteer department where resources, training and experience levels vary from response to response, all decisions regarding risk v. benefit will vary based on the resources.

    Bottom line is if I can not assure 100% safety crew safetywith the resources, manpower, training and experience I have on scene, or I know is in the process of responding, I will not as the initial IC commit personnel interior into amarginal situation, especially if there is no civilian life issues. If there are life issues, my evaluation of victim viability will guide my decision. The potential cost to us is simply too high.



    Yep, and tere are conflicts we run into that we aren't specifically trained for. It's called adapt and overcome. YOu can do tis in a safe manner.

    So my VFD gets dispatched to a trench rescue, and we have no equipment or training in trench rescue? How exactly do we adapt and overcome. Sure I can call my com,bo department which has very limited trench rescue experience and no real equipment, but do you suggest we enter the trench despite the lack of training? Is that your idea of firefighter safety? What about an open water rescue in a large pond with no water rescue equipment or open water training we just happen to be driving by .... Exactly how do we adapt and overcome? And exactly how do we do this in a safe manner with no training or water rescue equipment?



    So do our commanders in combat, much like the IC. So again, you're wrong!
    Diffenrence is you IC may be 5 level above your squad leader, and that IC has objectives that he expects to be carried out. The fireground structure has far fewer levels and far fewer people to answer to.

    Again this thread started out about civilians making rescues. Sometimes they go right. Other times they go very wrong and we end up with several more victims. IMO, it's not something we should encourage unless you have the resources to dela with those additional possible victime.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-27-2011 at 02:48 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #50
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Somewhere in the southeast.
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    Anyway, back on track. Many accolades to the brave individuals that made the rescue. WIsh they had the applause smiley on here.
    Last edited by firefightinirish217; 06-27-2011 at 05:31 PM.

Closed Thread
Page 2 of 12 First 12345 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Keep Your Chin Up
    By FFighterRob in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-06-2006, 06:30 PM
  2. More residential fire sprinklers in local ordinances
    By DaSharkie in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2005, 11:10 AM
  3. An Unnatural Disaster
    By stm4710 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-19-2005, 06:59 PM
  4. Its about time someone finally said this. (Gotta read!)
    By CALFFBOU in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: 03-14-2003, 11:09 PM
  5. What's the first thing you look for arriving at a fire...
    By Dalmation90 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 02-27-2000, 03:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register