People doing the right thing...

[nyckftbl]

Here is a new happening from night before last. Two teenage boys were riding skateboards on a bank parking lot. An apparatus bay door was open, so the boys came into the station carrying with a check that they had found. It was from a guy's parents for his birthday present. I told them that I would make sure that he got it and took it to his house yesterday morning. He said that he would have a lot of fun when he asked his wife for his birthday check, just to see what she had to say. Anyway, I told the boys that they did the right thing and that seemed to be what they were looking to hear. I, and most of my generation, don't give today's youngsters a chance to step up and do right. We just expect them to be up to no good.

Uhhh, what?

[FWDbuff]

I have said it before, I am saying it again- this is precisely why pubic hair booby should be dismissed from FH forums permanently; due to conduct unbecoming of a firefighter. Its not about freedom of speech, some of you have stated he has that right, and yes he certainly does have the right to freedom of speech- but he does not have the right to act or even talk about acting in a manner that goes against the one principle that binds each and every one of us together- the desire to serve and protect our fellow
Man. Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
to do anything.

This is why I believe the Webteam should dismiss him permanently. They claim to have ties to the fire service- ok, show us. DO THE RIGHT THING AND PERMANENTLY DISMISS BOOBY THE PUBIC HAIR.

[firefightinirish217]

I'm sure some damn a** rednecks would have done the same thing.

Wow, such high regards you hold your fellow Louisianans. You're a turd, go find a whirl pool in the swamp and flush yourself.

Chief GOnzo, I apologize, I thought it was funny, I forgot how LA hi-jacks threads though to "glorify" himself. Plain stupid.

[nmfire]

He would have replied with this inhumane bull**** with or without your comment earlier. He always does. Because he's a piece of crap.

[LaFireEducator]

Wow, such high regards you hold your fellow Louisianans. You're a turd, go find a whirl pool in the swamp and flush yourself.

Chief GOnzo, I apologize, I thought it was funny, I forgot how LA hi-jacks threads though to "glorify" himself. Plain stupid.

So I hijacked this thread?

Given that there was one direct reference to "Bossier Parish" and 2 other posts references clearly targeted at me before I ever posted, I would hardly call that hijacking.

I had no intention of posting until you posted your little "Bossier Parish" gem.

I have a good idea ..... Next time somebody posts on of these wonderful civilian or off-duty firefighter threads, just keep me out of it and I won't post.

It's really that easy.

[LaFireEducator]

I have said it before, I am saying it again- this is precisely why pubic hair booby should be dismissed from FH forums permanently; due to conduct unbecoming of a firefighter. Its not about freedom of speech, some of you have stated he has that right, and yes he certainly does have the right to freedom of speech- but he does not have the right to act or even talk about acting in a manner that goes against the one principle that binds each and every one of us together- the desire to serve and protect our fellow
Man. Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
to do anything.

This is why I believe the Webteam should dismiss him permanently. They claim to have ties to the fire service- ok, show us. DO THE RIGHT THING AND PERMANENTLY DISMISS BOOBY THE PUBIC HAIR.

You believe that we have the obligation to attempt every rescue in every situation because we are firefighters.

I beleive that as firefighters we have the obligation to perform rescues when the victim is viable, the situation is within the training and resources of the personnel on hand, and that we have the proper equipment and tools to conduct the rescue.

If I'm off-duty, and have no PPE, tools or equipment, the rescue is choice not an obligation. People are going to die. Call that cavalier if you want, but bottom line is unequipped rescuers are nothing but additional victims/patients waiting to happen. And there is a reasonable chance that the rescuers will die as without without saving the victim(s).

As a previous poster said, sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing.

I don't know of a recognized fire training agency that says you put your life on the line without the resources, training, experience and equipment to do so. If there are any, please direct me to them. Every training class I have ever attended it was made quite clear that our safety is paramount.

And by the way, here's another guiding principal that has been accepted pretty widely throughout the fire service - "Everyone Goes Home".

Simply keep me out of these threads if you have an issue with my opinion. Frankly, I don't care what kind of risks firefighters take on their off-time.

(And by the way, this thread was about untrained, unequipped civilian rescuers)

[nmfire]

I had no intention of posting until you posted your little "Bossier Parish" gem.

I have a good idea ..... Next time somebody posts on of these wonderful civilian or off-duty firefighter threads, just keep me out of it and I won't post.

Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

As a previous poster said, sometimes it takes more courage to do nothing.

Or in your case, it takes a coward to do nothing.

[SPFDRum]

To FWDbuff:

"You believe that we have the obligation to attempt every rescue in every situation because we are firefighters." LA

Wow, tossing a giant bs flag on this one. With such a grandiose statement, I beg of you to find a single post or quote that from FWDbuff that states that. I will wager that you will discover many quotes that will allude to training, size-up, conditions, and personal experience needed to affect such rescue attempts.

[LaFireEducator]

Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

Wrong.

If nobody invites me to the party on this subject I have nothing to add.

Once I'm invited, that's life.

[LaFireEducator]

Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
to do anything.

That's a quote from FWDs last post on this thread.

The interpretation on that is that he has the expectation that as a firefighter I should take some type of action.

People die in fires. people die in wrecks. And there are times that they cannot be saved nor should they attempted to be saved if we are not in the right position with the right resources to make an attempt.

Everyone Goes Home. Except at times, the victim, but we have the right to make that choice.

[ChiefKN]

So I hijacked this thread?

Given that there was one direct reference to "Bossier Parish" and 2 other posts references clearly targeted at me before I ever posted, I would hardly call that hijacking.

I had no intention of posting until you posted your little "Bossier Parish" gem.

I have a good idea ..... Next time somebody posts on of these wonderful civilian or off-duty firefighter threads, just keep me out of it and I won't post.

It's really that easy.

He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

WTG!

[nmfire]

Bull. You're worthless hide couldn't possibly resist running your mouth. You never have, and you never will.

Wrong.

If nobody invites me to the party on this subject I have nothing to add.

Once I'm invited, that's life.

And you're also a liar. Imagine that.

[firefightinirish217]

He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

WTG!

THis is all I said Chief:

Lucky for that guy he was in PA and not Bossier Parrish, LA. I'm just sayin'.

He's the one that couldn't resist responding. I honestly believe that he searches the forums for keywords such as LA, Bossier Parrish, etc. just to see if there is something to respond to.

If you trully don't care what we think LA I challenge you to not respond to what other people say to you for a month, we'll see then.

[FWDbuff]

He makes an excellent point. Some of you are so fixated with man love for him that you have to mention him in threads that have (blissfully) been free of him and his stupid ideas.

WTG!

Man love? I have so much hate and disdain for him that were he across the street from me and on fire, I wouldn't cross the street to **** on him. (no bunker gear, wouldn't want to get hurt after all......)

[ChiefKN]

How can you reference him and NOT expect him to reply?

Gimme a break....

Look, you like going back and forth, whatever... different strokes, I guess.

But don't moan when he shows up in a thread where there are comments made that all but mention him by name.

[nmfire]

He would have replied anyway despite his lie that he would have simply ignored it. His participation in this thread was inevitable from the moment it was created. He can't resist. I've never seen a coward actually brag and flaunt his cowardice. Usually its something people hide about themselves.

[SPFDRum]

Booby has continually stated time and time over (and in a cavalier, condescending attitude at that) that he "would have no problem" allowing someone to die while making absolutely zero attempt
to do anything.

That's a quote from FWDs last post on this thread.

The interpretation on that is that he has the expectation that as a firefighter I should take some type of action.
Ok, for the sake of fairness, please dissect out what part of that quote you glean that interpretation.
People die in fires. people die in wrecks. And there are times that they cannot be saved nor should they attempted to be saved if we are not in the right position with the right resources to make an attempt.

Everyone Goes Home. Except at times, the victim, but we have the right to make that choice.

The witless statement "everybody goes home" has bastardized the fire service to the point of doing nothing is acceptable in even the most basic situations, including training. As soon as a complex situation presents itself, this new breed if over-educated, under-experienced managers completely vapor lock. Compounding the situation to the point a death is inevitable. Much like the chain of events that cause accidents.
Unless we, as a fire service, quit responding and completely neglect the very premise of this profession, a zero sum LODD is impossible.

[LaFireEducator]

The witless statement "everybody goes home" has bastardized the fire service to the point of doing nothing is acceptable in even the most basic situations, including training. As soon as a complex situation presents itself, this new breed if over-educated, under-experienced managers completely vapor lock. Compounding the situation to the point a death is inevitable. Much like the chain of events that cause accidents.
Unless we, as a fire service, quit responding and completely neglect the very premise of this profession, a zero sum LODD is impossible.

Not even I beleive that LODDs can ever be reduced to zero. There will always be the unpredicatble events. However, the phrase Everyone Goes Home refers to reducing the number of predictable LODDS.

Incidents such as departments making interior attacks with inadequate manpower or resorces. Members operating inside structures for property when somebody should see an obvious danger. membedrs working inside collapse zones on a well involved building. Apparatus accidents due to speed or intersection management. All likely events where an LODD is possible yet we as a service continue to do it in incidents where the outcome has likely already been determined.

I was just in the can reading a NIOSH LODD report where a rural department with 5 members on scene made an interior attack into a house with an intial report of heavy smoke from the attic. Why make entry? Prime example of operating interior with inadequate manpower, most likley with limited experience in training, in a situation, given the resources where the outcome has likely been determined before they arrived. Those are the types of situations addressed in "Everybody Goes Home".

And yes, operating off-duty without PPE, tools or equipment, IMO, does fall into that catagory. For that reason, my size-up will almost always say no. As cruel and heartless as it may sound to some, it simply ain't my problem if I don't have the skills, resources and equipment to deal with it. It may be cold but yes, my life, and our lives have equal priority with the victim, and concequences to us have equal value with concequences to the victim(s).

[scfire86]

So it's really a good idea to encourage civilian rescuers after we, as professionals,

What do you mean "we?"

Since when have you ever been a professional?

[ChiefKN]

And yes, operating off-duty without PPE, tools or equipment, IMO, does fall into that catagory. For that reason, my size-up will almost always say no. As cruel and heartless as it may sound to some, it simply ain't my problem if I don't have the skills, resources and equipment to deal with it. It may be cold but yes, my life, and our lives have equal priority with the victim, and concequences to us have equal value with concequences to the victim(s).

It's cool. Not everyone is cut out to be a firefighter.