Closed Thread
Page 4 of 12 First 1234567 ... Last
  1. #76
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    That is not a minor point, it is your entire existence. Any time someone posts on a save, or a tactic, or civilians SAVING SOMEONES LIFE you can't seem to say bravo, good work and MOVE ON as you claim to be trying to do. You pick apart everything and bring it all back to "another time when a similar thing happened and it turned out bad so they were wrong". I get sick of the back and forth in most topics on these forums like everyone else... mostly because its the same guy against everyone else the majority of the time.

    My father in law would not accept that his hearing was going, (gone is more like it) every single person in his family would tell him but he just wouldn't believe them. I even tried joking about it with him to be a little less rude than, "DAD YOU'RE FRIGGIN DEAF, I JUST ASKED YOU SOMETHING 5 TIMES AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN TURN YOUR HEAD!" Needless to say, at a physical, he had his ears checked, 70% loss both sides.... I guess when a doctor says it to you ya listen a lil better....

    However, Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs and many other guys with years and years more experience than you in the same field have told you many times about your skewed views. You can have an opinion, but when it comes to the manner you apply that opinion to your work, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

    Also, I knew before you ever said it that you never swore an oath to protect life and property. I'd bet you'd reject swearing an oath to protect anything that comes with some sort of risk involved. Theres a word for that in the dictionary...comes after COW.
    Awesome post, Brother.. awesome post!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  2. #77
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Awesome post, Brother.. awesome post!
    I'll SECOND that. Move Fuss to the Head of the serving line. T.C.

  3. #78
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    That is not a minor point, it is your entire existence. Any time someone posts on a save, or a tactic, or civilians SAVING SOMEONES LIFE you can't seem to say bravo, good work and MOVE ON as you claim to be trying to do. You pick apart everything and bring it all back to "another time when a similar thing happened and it turned out bad so they were wrong". I get sick of the back and forth in most topics on these forums like everyone else... mostly because its the same guy against everyone else the majority of the time.

    My father in law would not accept that his hearing was going, (gone is more like it) every single person in his family would tell him but he just wouldn't believe them. I even tried joking about it with him to be a little less rude than, "DAD YOU'RE FRIGGIN DEAF, I JUST ASKED YOU SOMETHING 5 TIMES AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN TURN YOUR HEAD!" Needless to say, at a physical, he had his ears checked, 70% loss both sides.... I guess when a doctor says it to you ya listen a lil better....

    However, Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs, Deputy Chiefs and many other guys with years and years more experience than you in the same field have told you many times about your skewed views. You can have an opinion, but when it comes to the manner you apply that opinion to your work, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

    Also, I knew before you ever said it that you never swore an oath to protect life and property. I'd bet you'd reject swearing an oath to protect anything that comes with some sort of risk involved. Theres a word for that in the dictionary...comes after COW.
    So do you dispute the the fact that often when civilians attempt rescues, things go bad, and they become victims or patients themseleves?

    Do you deny that can become the case?

    And do you think it's a good idea for civilians to attempt these rescues without training or PPE?

    That's really all the statement you quoted stated.

    If you feel it's a good idea to give these civilians accolades despite the the fact that the attempts they make, if unsuccessful, can greatly complicate our job, especially in areas with limited rescue and EMS capabilities, that's your opinion. I disagree that we should make these people heroes, and instead, should do our best to discourage untrained, unequipped and unprotected civilians from getting into harm's way and potentially turning a single victim rescue into a multiple victim rescue.

    In our area, we don't have the resources to pull 4 or 5 victims from a house fire, a confined space or a pond when there was only one victim to start with, so I guess I'm just silly that way as it will be my problem when I pull up either as a firefighter or as the IC (especally on my VFD) with multiple victims and very limited resources. Yes, that kind of stuff concerns me as it's a real possibility in this area.

    And yes, I do bring up the times, both here and within my department, when things didn't go so well, as there have been countless situations nationwide where have had to rescue multiple civilian would-be (and unequuipped off-duty fire and EMS) rescuers, or recover thier dead bodies, because thier attempts failed. Sorry, but that is very relevant in the discussion. The public certainly needs to be educated that things can go very bad in civilian rescue situations, and yes, it's something we need to think about as well.

    My only point with the oath was that many departments, especially volunteer departments, do not have new members swear an oath. The duty is the same with or without an oath, so I simply don't see the relevance in that.

    As far as risk, I'm willing to take it when there is measuarable gain comensurrate with the lives of our members, and those members have all the tools - training, experience, tools and resources - to manage the risk in a safe manner.If any one of those is missing, yes, we do have to take great pause and think very carefully about the concequences to us before we act.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-29-2011 at 06:34 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  4. #79
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So do you dispute the the fact that often when civilians attempt rescues, things go bad, and they become victims or patients themseleves?

    Do you deny that can become the case?
    Yes it can happen.. just as it can with fully trained and equipped firefighters ... and there are those civilians who are willing to do the right thing and take that risk for their fellow man.

    And do you think it's a good idea for civilians to attempt these rescues without training or PPE?

    That's really all the statement you quoted stated
    .

    They do it.. maybe its a once in a lifetime moment, but yet they still do it.. not for accolades, not for rewards.. but for their fellow human beings.

    If you feel it's a good idea to give these civilians accolades despite the the fact that the attempts they make, if unsuccessful, can greatly complicate our job, especially in areas with limited rescue and EMS capabilities, that's your opinion. I disagree that we should make these people heroes, and instead, should do our best to discourage untrained, unequipped and unprotected civilians from getting into harm's way and potentially turning a single victim rescue into a multiple victim rescue.
    If they don't make an attempt, the job automatically beomes more "complicated"...

    In our area, we don't have the resources to pull 4 or 5 victims from a house fire, a confined space or a pond when there was only one victim to start with, so I guess I'm just silly that way.
    Yes... you are silly. You pull out one victim, then go in for the others if humanly possible. You seem to think that every firefighter who doesn't prescribe to your "vision" of the fire service is is hell bent on making every call a suicide mission... I intend to get my pension and enjoy it for a long long time.. and proper training and continuing education will help ensure that I, and many of my Brothers and Sister do just that.

    And yes, I do bring up the times, both here and within my department, when things didn't go so well, as there have been countless situations nationwide where have had to rescue multiple would be civilian (and unequuipped off-duty fireand EMS) rescuers, or recover thier dead bodies because thier attempts failed. Sorry, but that is very relevant in the discussion. The public certainly needs to be educated that things can go very bad in civilian rescue situations, and yes, it's something we need to think about as well.
    In fairness.. do you bring up the cases of successful rescues? I would think not, as it does not fit your agenda.

    My only point with the oath was that many departments, especially volunteer departments, do not have new members swear an oath. The duty is the same with or without an oath, so I simply don't see the relevance in that.
    Do you see the relevance in anything?

    As far as risk, I'm willing to take it when there is measuarable gain comserurate with the lives of our members, and those members have all the tools - training, experience, tools and resources - to manage the risk in a safe manner.
    Since you feel that your people don't need to be trained to any form of a national standard...
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-29-2011 at 06:40 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #80
    Forum Member
    IronValor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Richmond, Kentucky
    Posts
    210

    Default

    The fact of the matter is this video showed that there is still some good in people. How many times have others just stood by and did nothing while their fellow human being is suffering or in need?

    I have always said that if given the chance it is every individuals whether sworn, Civvy, Paid, Volunteer, or otherwise to do something.

    I cannot count the number of times I have been thankful there has been a citizen there to lend a helping hand.

    Thanks again Chief for the great post
    Do not let the ghosts of our fallen brothers gaze upon you and ask " What have you done to my profession?" FTB DTRT EGH

  6. #81
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Since you feel that your people don't need to be trained to any form of a national standard...
    Awesome response. Don't you love his circular logic. He doesn't want people trained to any national standard and consequently shouldn't be expected to perform an operation for which they aren't properly trained.

    And folks wonder why the fire service is considered a joke in parts of the country. It consists of people like him.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #82
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Awesome response. Don't you love his circular logic. He doesn't want people trained to any national standard and consequently shouldn't be expected to perform an operation for which they aren't properly trained.

    And folks wonder why the fire service is considered a joke in parts of the country. It consists of people like him.
    First of all there is no national standard. Many states require no specified training levels for volunteers. Some don't even require a specified standard for career members. And for those that do, for many, it is a 36 or 60-hour course, not FF1.

    So we, in all reality, there is nothing even close to a national standard. If you doubt it, look up a report done by the State of Indiana Fire Training Service a few years ago. I have a copy in my files if you have any questions.

    Ironically enough, our initial training goes beyond FFI and contains elements of FFI as we require a level of profeciancy in foam operations and vehicle extrication for new members. We also go well beyond FFI in terms of brush fire operations and rural water operations.

    By the way, why don't we just build one national standard fire truck, which everyone, rural, urban or surburban can use? After all, you support a cookie-cutter minimum standard that you seem to beleive should meet everyone's needs, so why not build just one fire truck that should meet everyone's needs?
    When FFI meets our needs, we'll adapt it as our training standard. Until then we'll add and subtract what we need to meet our needs, not a cookie-cutter standard.

    Again, we exceed any standard for our state, which requires no specified training for volunteer or career members.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-30-2011 at 05:32 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #83
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    First of all there is no national standard. Many states require no specified training levels for volunteers. Some don't even require a specified standard for career members. And for those that do, for many, it is a 36 or 60-hour course, not FF1.

    So we, in all reality, there is nothing even close to a national standard. If you doubt it, look up a report done by the State of Indiana Fire Training Service a few years ago. I have a copy in my files if you have any questions.

    Ironically enough, our initial training goes beyond FFI and contains elements of FFI as we require a level of profeciancy in foam operations and vehicle extrication for new members. We also go well beyond FFI in terms of brush fire operations and rural water operations.

    By the way, why don't we just build one national standard fire truck, which everyone, rural, urban or surburban can use? After all, you support a cookie-cutter minimum standard that you seem to beleive should meet everyone's needs, so why not build just one fire truck that should meet everyone's needs?
    When FFI meets our needs, we'll adapt it as our training standard. Until then we'll add and subtract what we need to meet our needs, not a cookie-cutter standard.

    Again, we exceed any standard for our state, which requires no specified training for volunteer or career members.

    Comparing trucks is ludicrous... like most of your opinions.

    Cookie cutter? More like the crumbs. FF1 encompasses the FUNDAMENTALS.... if your people can't handle that, then they shouldn't be playing the game.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  9. #84
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Comparing trucks is ludicrous... like most of your opinions.

    Cookie cutter? More like the crumbs. FF1 encompasses the FUNDAMENTALS.... if your people can't handle that, then they shouldn't be playing the game.
    They handle what we need to teach them to do the job in our area utilizing our tools and equipment, not sombody else's area.

    My "fundamentals" are not your "fundamentals".

    The bottom line is FFI is in fact not anational standard as it has not been adopted as a state standard in the the majority of the states for volunteer personnel. When it is adopted by all 50 states, it will be the national standard.

    There is really no point in discussing this any further.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #85
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    Fundamentals are fundamentals no matter where you go, that's what makes them fundaments. Region specifics are normal but it's quite backwards to spare fundamentals in lieu of regional needs. Our region would never need drafting but we still know how to do it as it's a fundamental.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  11. #86
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Fundamentals are fundamentals no matter where you go, that's what makes them fundaments. Region specifics are normal but it's quite backwards to spare fundamentals in lieu of regional needs. Our region would never need drafting but we still know how to do it as it's a fundamental.
    Guess what?

    It's not my job to train my people for another department. It's our job to train them to work in our enviroment.

    If they want to take a FFI class we'll teach it or pay for them to take it at a neighboring department. We'll pay for the books. We'll pay for the tests. But in the end it's thier choice if they decide they have the time and want to take the effort to go beyond what they need to know for our operation.

    Many of them are happy just knowing how to do the job here as a firefighter. And that's not an issue for us as that is in the long run, all that matters
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  12. #87
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Guess what?

    It's not my job to train my people for another department. It's our job to train them to work in our enviroment.

    If they want to take a FFI class we'll teach it or pay for them to take it at a neighboring department. We'll pay for the books. We'll pay for the tests. But in the end it's thier choice if they decide they have the time and want to take the effort to go beyond what they need to know for our operation.

    Many of them are happy just knowing how to do the job here as a firefighter. And that's not an issue for us as that is in the long run, all that matters
    That's hilarious. We make firefighters, I could careless about the making of bob-ettes.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  13. #88
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,085

    Default

    Bob-ettes --- now thats funny
    ?

  14. #89
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Guess what?

    It's not my job to train my people for another department. It's our job to train them to work in our enviroment.

    If they want to take a FFI class we'll teach it or pay for them to take it at a neighboring department. We'll pay for the books. We'll pay for the tests. But in the end it's thier choice if they decide they have the time and want to take the effort to go beyond what they need to know for our operation.

    Many of them are happy just knowing how to do the job here as a firefighter. And that's not an issue for us as that is in the long run, all that matters
    Yeah, right.. this from someone who wants to teach at the NFA....

    Make all the excuses you want.. for on this forum, you are an army of one. Everybody else sees through the facade.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #90
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    The witless statement "everybody goes home" has bastardized the fire service to the point of doing nothing is acceptable in even the most basic situations, including training. As soon as a complex situation presents itself, this new breed if over-educated, under-experienced managers completely vapor lock. Compounding the situation to the point a death is inevitable. Much like the chain of events that cause accidents.
    Unless we, as a fire service, quit responding and completely neglect the very premise of this profession, a zero sum LODD is impossible.
    Home Run!!!!

    A fireman is willing to give his life for the sake of a perfect stranger, on the clock or off, day or night. The race, financial status, mental health, criminal history etc of the victim are no object, judgement of a person is made by powers out of our hands. You're either in or your out in this business...theres no in between.

  16. #91
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Yeah, right.. this from someone who wants to teach at the NFA....

    Make all the excuses you want.. for on this forum, you are an army of one. Everybody else sees through the facade.
    Actually this is the way my combo department has trained it's volunteer personnel for years .. well before I arrived ... so they feels that it works.

    It's worked for us for years.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  17. #92
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Actually this is the way my combo department has trained it's volunteer personnel for years .. well before I arrived ... so they feels that it works.

    It's worked for us for years.
    Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.... what about the other 22 hours?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #93
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.... what about the other 22 hours?

    Actually, it is only right for a second twice a day.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  19. #94
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    That's hilarious. We make firefighters, I could careless about the making of bob-ettes.
    You are also a full-time department, which is a very different situation.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  20. #95
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    ...A fireman is willing to give his life for the sake of a perfect stranger, on the clock or off, day or night...
    side track...

    So are the guys from Alameda CA not firemen? You know, the ones that followed their orders to not attempt the water rescue?

    Pretty bold statement you are making there.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  21. #96
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    It's the same at my old volunteer and my new, very rural, volunteer department. It's the same everywhere. With everyone. But you.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  22. #97
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    By the way, why don't we just build one national standard fire truck, which everyone, rural, urban or surburban can use? After all, you support a cookie-cutter minimum standard that you seem to beleive should meet everyone's needs, so why not build just one fire truck that should meet everyone's needs?
    I doubt you would like that since it would require you to go away.

    But do keep up with your continued justifications to do nothing once you finally respond.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  23. #98
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    It's the same at my old volunteer and my new, very rural, volunteer department. It's the same everywhere. With everyone. But you.
    So everyone is FFI at your volunteer department?

    I would suspect that the vast amjority of the volunteer departments in LA does not require FFI. In fact, there is no training requirements at all in this state.

    When you can get all 50 states on board requiring FFI, and the certification earned in one state is 100% valid in all other 49 states, it will actually be a national standard, and we can talk about it. Until then, it's just a piece of paper.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  24. #99
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    At my old volunteer: about 30 on paper with a good responding core of 15, all ff1 with 10-11 ff2.

    My new one is my part time 8-5 and also volunteer when not at career. It's a massive district (a whole parish) with 12 stations and about 290 on the roster. I'd dare say around 200 are ff1. The ones who aren't certified are the older guys who've been there for 30 years or so and it wasn't required then. They also don't go interior due to health and/age but are damn good officers or pump operators. Education is done in house and through lsu's online system with certification at lsu normally on a vacation or the like from their full time jobs. Many of their bosses realize they are the ones protecting their homes and businesses and sometimes just give them paid time off. It works because it's expected and enforced. Your expect sub-standard boot fillers and that's what you get.

    Don't take it as a knock on your department as I don't know them
    But your "it's impossible to do" bull**** doesn't hold water. It's possible but you find it easier to make excuses.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  25. #100
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,676

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    It's the same at my old volunteer and my new, very rural, volunteer department. It's the same everywhere. With everyone. But you.
    So everyone is FFI at your volunteer department?

    I would suspect that the vast amjority of the volunteer departments in LA does not require FFI. In fact, there is no training requirements at all in this state.

    When you can get all 50 states on board requiring FFI, and the certification earned in one state is 100% valid in all other 49 states, it will actually be a national standard, and we can talk about it. Until then, it's just a piece of paper.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

Closed Thread
Page 4 of 12 First 1234567 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Keep Your Chin Up
    By FFighterRob in forum Hiring & Employment Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-06-2006, 06:30 PM
  2. More residential fire sprinklers in local ordinances
    By DaSharkie in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-05-2005, 11:10 AM
  3. An Unnatural Disaster
    By stm4710 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-19-2005, 06:59 PM
  4. Its about time someone finally said this. (Gotta read!)
    By CALFFBOU in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: 03-14-2003, 11:09 PM
  5. What's the first thing you look for arriving at a fire...
    By Dalmation90 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 02-27-2000, 03:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register