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Thread: Which rigs should explorers be allowed to ride on?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanFireman View Post
    My department doesn't have explorers. The reason is based in psychology. Mentally, individuals that young lack the emotional maturity to grasp the full impact of actions. Which is also why teenagers typically make terrible parents. After dealing with my fair share of young kids who think they're invincible has led me to conclude kids don't belong at a fire.

    If I hadn't had the experiences with the fools I've dealt with and also not been a little hellion as a teenager. I might have had a different opinion, but that wasn't the case.
    I really hate seeing people argue with older smarter Firefighters such as yourself. So, I am not arguing, just bringing up a point. Most explorers, while at the station are on their best behavior--mostly because they are scared of screwing up. Secondly of the explorers on my post, they are some of the better behaved people in general. But if you are ever in Oregon on a Tuesday, come check out our drill. I think you would be pleasantly suprised. Thanks for your calm collected reasonable input, sometimes people display their disgust for explorers in a mean way.

    In response to the original post. I ride all of the rigs, the ladder the engine, they Tech Rescue what ever leaves, it helps that all the officers either like me or respect me.


  2. #22
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    Like everyone else said, you ride what your told to ride. It makes a bad impression for yourself if you go up to the OIC and ask him why you cant ride this or that. I believe that in order for a cadet to ride, you must know every piece of equipment on the rig. You may be asked to go get something, and if you dont know where it is, it can be very embarrasing for you, and very irritating for the person who told you to get the equipment. Like kansas said, a lot of stuff happens in the back of the ambulance that a young kid should not see. I dont think that i could have handled some of the stuff when i was that young. Another reason they might not be allowed to ride is because of the shock and awe factor. When the rescue pulls up to a scene, the cadet might be admiring the scene, and not watching out for the safety factors at the scene. This can happen at any scene, and would not be good if a cadet got hurt. Your time will come to ride the truck and rescue one day, but remember, everybody starts off at the bottom and has to work their way up.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KanFireman View Post
    My department doesn't have explorers. The reason is based in psychology. Mentally, individuals that young lack the emotional maturity to grasp the full impact of actions. Which is also why teenagers typically make terrible parents. After dealing with my fair share of young kids who think they're invincible has led me to conclude kids don't belong at a fire.

    If I hadn't had the experiences with the fools I've dealt with and also not been a little hellion as a teenager. I might have had a different opinion, but that wasn't the case.
    I hate this for your department.

    I have found that the mental capability/emotional capability although somewhat based in age, knows no age barriers for the most part. Go onto youtube and look around. We have so-called adult firefighters doing amazingly stupid things on a daily basis.

    A well run "student" or "junior" firefighter program is a tremendous asset both to the department and the community, as shown in thousands of fire departments across the US.

    Alas, I was not a little hellion growing up, I was a MAJOR hellion/PIA....

  4. #24
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    I would prefer they ride in one of the rigs...
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ofdexplorerPV View Post
    The post I am in only lets us ride the Engines and Rescues. You have to be 16 to ride the Engine and you have to be in EMT school to ride the Rescues. If an explorer is at a station with a Tower or Heavy Rescue and they get a good call, do you think the explorer should be allowed to jump on?

    Thanks,
    ofdexplorerPV
    I was fortunate enough to have the connections I did that allowed me to pretty much do whatever I wanted. I could go on the engines, rescue, or brush truck. My connections got me in the door but I had to do the rest. I may have been some 14 year-old 7th grade kid, but I earned the respect of the guys (and gals). I may be young, but I've had experiences that some paid people have never had. I'm no officer, but they treat me like one, listen to me, and heck even the chiefs ask for my opinion on what to do. Now, I didn't have any rules on what I could ride like you do, but I think it still stands that no matter what piece it is, you have to earn their respect. It's not something that's just handed to you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I would prefer they ride in one of the rigs...
    Yeah, your nothing but a safety sally. Let them ride on them!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFSKPII View Post
    I was fortunate enough to have the connections I did that allowed me to pretty much do whatever I wanted. I could go on the engines, rescue, or brush truck. My connections got me in the door but I had to do the rest. I may have been some 14 year-old 7th grade kid, but I earned the respect of the guys (and gals). I may be young, but I've had experiences that some paid people have never had. I'm no officer, but they treat me like one, listen to me, and heck even the chiefs ask for my opinion on what to do. Now, I didn't have any rules on what I could ride like you do, but I think it still stands that no matter what piece it is, you have to earn their respect. It's not something that's just handed to you.
    While FFSKPII says if you earn their respect you should be able to ride whatever you want, it doesn't matter, you ride what they tell you to ride. Your Chief can get in big trouble if you were to get hurt riding something you weren't supposed to.

  8. #28
    Forum Member RyanK63's Avatar
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    We have no juniors at the moment, but normally they go on the tanker or QRV unless there is an open seat on the engine then they are more then welcome to hop on.
    "If it was easy, someone else would of done it already." - Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    - Firefighter 1 / HAZMAT Ops / EMT-B

  9. #29
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    my department lets us ride if there is room on any truck and if we certified for it

  10. #30
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    Any apparatus that isn't the first out the door unless we are told otherwise we can always ride in the chiefs vehicle if it is still there
    "A Brother Above All Else" ~Glen Schade

    "Those who volunteer to fight fires are people who truly care." ~C. Pulsifer

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I would prefer they ride in one of the rigs...
    Me too.We only had one Explorer when I was on,but he had to wait for the second response and couldn't ride the first in rigs.Unless his Mom was responding,then he got to go but had to stay in the ICs back pocket until everyone else died or had heart attacks.THEN he could perform on the fireground.
    Not showing contempt for Explorers but they are underage and just learning how to be firefighters and as such should be protected just as the medical personnel are.
    There's going to be plenty of chances for them to get hurt on the job when they are 18 and certifiably burnable.
    As of my last visit to the old stomping grounds,there are plenty of Explorers at my department but while they train alongside the regulars,they are still relegated to very support activities on the fireground and kept out of the house on medical assist runs.There's some things on those that aren't for MY eyes much less those of a kid.
    Last edited by doughesson; 10-04-2011 at 10:26 AM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Me too.We only had one Explorer when I was on,but he had to wait for the second response and couldn't ride the first in rigs.
    Yes, we don't let anyone ride the first due unless they are able to make an interior attack. The second due has flip down seats in the crew cab. These are not pack seats and I always thought of them for Juniors when I helped design the rig.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  13. #33
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    the way i see it is the same as a probie you get on what ever truck you can , your part of the department you have that right but! if there you get on and there is a qualified ff standing looking for a truck to get on they can tell you to get out and take the next truck at least thats how are department works . dont punish a kid willing to be first to the station and willing to learn because of his title

  14. #34
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    ofdexplorerPV:


    Quote Originally Posted by ofdexplorerPV View Post
    I hope that one day I can be a hero like all of you.

    This simple Statement is why many veteran firefighters will not embrace or mentor explorers. I urge you to explain the statement or walk it back.

    The statement is reckless, as is the attitude that one is a hero because he is a firefighter.

    I have known many heros during my life, my father, soldiers, teachers, and coaches for example. They were not heros in the true definition of the word, but more for what they provided to me in terms of knowledge or experience. And yes a few firefighters that I have known over the years were heros.

    It is not the job that makes you a hero. It is a split second decision to do something extraordinary above and beyond the call of duty.

    Heros are the by-product of circumstance. No one that I would consider a hero would describe themself with that term. One that claims to be a hero is more likely egotistical and very foolish. You should learn the difference.

    We all have our dreams or aspirations to do something with our lives that means something. Just the fact that you wish to become a firefighter suggests you have a desire to make a difference. But nothing in a day's work makes you a hero just because you ride a truck, or fill out the turnouts. Most calls are routine and will soon become a blur after time. Some calls will standout in your mind forever. But performing the functions you have been trained to fulfill is not heroic in itself. The public might view it differently and hold you in high regard, but do not come to expect it.

    It is an easy thing to state that you will put your life on the line and gladly give full measure if it means someone else would be saved. If you say this, then it cheapens the meaning. If you believe you are capable of fulfilling it, then I urge you to think hard about it. It is a personal thing. Having gone through what I believed to be my final moments and a certain and painful death, I assure you do not wish to find yourself in this situation. I am not ashamed to say I was... "fearful". If I had perished, it would have been in vain, but that did not enter my mind in those minutes. Today, we just do not train our firefighters to think this way.... we train them to survive at all costs.

    While you have not made any reference to the above sentence, I have a purpose for including it here. Over the years I have trained many young people that came to this job because of glamour and excitement. Many have a bullet-proof mindset and believe they are a chosen one. I spend considerable time breaking them down to get rid of that thinking. That mentality is dangerous for them, and everyone they work with.

    Unfortunately, Hollywood has created a fire service that is misleading. I listen to rookies discussing Backdraft or Ladder 49... I just have to shake my head because most will not see in 20 years what is projected in 2 hours. The action is not action to us when we're in the fight. It is a job where failure or success is very much determined by the events and actions of humans. We must focus on the tasks at hand. If you come to my scene and tell me this is exciting... I'm keeping you away.

    There is nothing glamorus about laying in a burn center for a year enduring numerous skin grafts until you just want to give up. There is nothing exciting about carrying a dying child out of a bedroom. There is nothing heroic about doing what you train to do. And it is very hard to look cool if you are dead.

    So please, do not refer to the other young people in this forum as heros, and do not use the term to describe the veterans around here. We all signed up to do a job. We knew what was expected and have come to understand the dangers and risks. But we are still very much mortal. Too many of our guys have been lost over the years, some lost due to reckless actions or needless risks. A few perhaps thought they were a hero going in only to die for no reason.

    Fear and a split second may be the difference between becoming frozen in place or fighting for everything.

    Some of those we have lost were in fact heros. It is up to us to remember that. Heros cannot or will not speak for themselves. And yes, there are a few walking amongst us here.

    I'm sorry if I seem a bit harsh, but my concern is you get off on the right foot. Don't lose your youth too quickly... it is only here for short while... you can never get it back. . I know you want to be an adult and do the adult things. You may think it is exciting... it isn't what you think it is.

    Good luck...
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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