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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    because I'm not lazy
    It seems to me that a continuous method of egress would me most efficient.


  2. #42
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    The first person I ever rescued was 88 years old, weighed 385 pounds and only had one leg. Picked him out of a 5th floor window. I was quite happy to have a platform that day.

  3. #43
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Silly me, I thought the purpose of a ladder was so you could climb it when necessary. Guess you never had to tell that next person "wait here...we'll be back".

    To further clarify, how to do get off the bottom of the ladder? The one picture above makes it look like you need an attic ladder or such to get from the ground up to the ladder.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #44
    MembersZone Subscriber Casco18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    How do you climb down that Metz ladder and get to the ground? or up to the ladder?
    Pull out ladder is in front of the drivers side rear wheels.
    "There's no such thing as a bad day,
    Some are just better than others." JFR 1914-1997

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by shag23 View Post
    The biggest reason is we have firemen that love platforms and some love sticks. So we are just looking at both and trying to see what will work the best for us. We have never had a ladder and here you can see what we are going from.
    http://franklinfire-rescue.com/image...-19-20_020.jpg
    That is a beautiful classig rig. Best of luck filling those shoes!

  6. #46
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evtrandy View Post
    I really dislike someone's voicing a native opinion about any manufacturer without backing it up for whatever reason they may have. RE: Command 6 who states that he is not a fan of Rosenbauer. It would be interesting to fine out why he is not a fan of rosenbauer.

    "I don't like Rosenbauer because I once worked for a dealer that sold them. The only trucks I have worked on in the last 15 years that I think were bigger POS's were the short lived EEI's".
    Our experience is just the opposite. Don't have a Rosie aerial but we have 3 Engines that are Rosie built to OUR specs.Going on ten years,outside of a few fasteners loosening up,NO issues. Our neighbors to the North run a pair with similar results,no issues.I certainly would NOT rule them out in future purchases. T.C.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Silly me, I thought the purpose of a ladder was so you could climb it when necessary. Guess you never had to tell that next person "wait here...we'll be back".

    To further clarify, how to do get off the bottom of the ladder? The one picture above makes it look like you need an attic ladder or such to get from the ground up to the ladder.
    Bones,next time you get near a show,take a look. Not much different than any other aerial.Using the steps built onto both sides of the body works best. T.C.

  8. #48
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    To further clarify, how to do get off the bottom of the ladder? The one picture above makes it look like you need an attic ladder or such to get from the ground up to the ladder.
    You step onto the platform like every ladder except the platform is to the right of the ladder set rather then to the rear. You could use an attic ladder but then again, that would be an option with ANY ladder, right? Seriously though, to get from the ladder to the ground, you use either the access ladder or folding steps just like every other aerial.

    Silly me, I thought the purpose of a ladder was so you could climb it when necessary. Guess you never had to tell that next person "wait here...we'll be back".
    I believe the point he was making is that the Metz is so fast that you could bring someone down much faster then if they were to climb down. Are you going to expect granny to climb down or take the elevator? Like any aerial ladder, you can climb it easily unlike the Scope and Sutphen.

  9. #49
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Ok, looking at the middle picture of the VFRA truck above...I see the operators chair on the left side, something on the right side which to me looks like it's in your way of stepping off the side, and nothing on the rear end of that ladder.

    Granted, it's at negative degrees, but if it was at a positive climbing angle, it just looks difficult to get from the truck up onto that ladder and/or off that ladder.

    If it uses fold down steps (white thing at rear of ladder?) do they limit movement/angle of the ladder when they are folded down?

    And I understand the speed of the Metz ladders. Just have a hard time telling person #3, sorry you have to wait.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #50
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but even with a straight stick there is always the potential that someone would have to wait because you more than likely only have a 500-750 pound tip load which must be distributed.

    I don't think you can put 4 guys on the fly section of the aerial and expect them to climb down right behind each other. I believe you are only suppose to have 1-2 guys per section at a time depending on the rating.

    With the Raptor, you can easily put 3-4 normal size people in the cage and bring them down rapidly. The Raptor also has a target control function which will return you exactly to the point of the waiting the victims while using one joystick. I'm not sure if it's ever been tried but I would imagine that if you put 10 people in a 4th story window that Raptor could bring down 10 people in half the time that it takes 10 people to climb down a ladder.

    One other thing that was pointed out to me about the Raptor is that if you do have people that are able to climb, the Raptor does support bridging which allows you to have as many as 12 people on the ladder at one time. I was told they can do this because the ladder is pretensioned when they weld it. In other words when you load up an American style truss ladder, it will bow. The Raptor is welded with an upward "bow" in it from the factory so any load just straightens it out and that's why you can bridge. This would be similar to any flatbed you see driving down the highway unloaded. You'll notice they always have an arch to them. When they are loaded up, they will then flatten out. Regardless, after seeing the speed of the Raptor, I still think it would be quicker to bring them down in the cage.

    I'm not sure if you can bridge with an normal truss ladder or not? I don't think you can?

  11. #51
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Ok, looking at the middle picture of the VFRA truck above...I see the operators chair on the left side, something on the right side which to me looks like it's in your way of stepping off the side, and nothing on the rear end of that ladder.

    Granted, it's at negative degrees, but if it was at a positive climbing angle, it just looks difficult to get from the truck up onto that ladder and/or off that ladder.

    If it uses fold down steps (white thing at rear of ladder?) do they limit movement/angle of the ladder when they are folded down?

    And I understand the speed of the Metz ladders. Just have a hard time telling person #3, sorry you have to wait.
    Here's the good news.......You Don't. Get on one when you have a chance,getting on or off is no more difficult than any standard ladder here. Different,but no harder. The NEW ones can be programmed(by operator)to return to a preset destination,say that second or third story window just as an example. T.C.

  12. #52
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    Different,but no harder.
    I think that is the real issue with most non-believers, it's different. It doesn't look like a typical aerial but it sure outperforms a typical aerial.

    I've had a Raptor at my disposal now since February I can tell you all first hand, these things are truly amazing!!! It continues to amaze our members everyday. I have received more positive comments about this apparatus then any other new apparatus the dept has received.

  13. #53
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Fair enough.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post

    And I understand the speed of the Metz ladders. Just have a hard time telling person #3, sorry you have to wait.
    Hi All,

    As a Metz (Raptor) user/owner I can speak from experience. With regards to the basket's weight capacity, we have squeezed in 5 firefighters (not in gear) to demonstrate to members the "how safe" it really is. I would estimate this to be about 900-1000 lbs. When we do this the overload Alarms sounds and the truck will only allow you to retract until you are back within what the truck knows to be a safe range of operation. It is pretty damn impressive.

    We also have a feature on our truck called target control. It allows us to record the movements to or from a location and then simply hit "playback" to activate it. We then just use 1 joystick to duplicate the location to which we just came to/from. It follows the exact motion. To within an inch of accuracy. It is a great feature if you have to return to the same spot/window over and over again.

    A Metz (Raptor) can not do everything, nor am I claiming it can, but it sure affords us many more options on the fireground as to what we "may" need it to do. It is an engineered piece of equipment that is safe, fast, smooth and very compact.

    Be Safe,

    Chief Lou
    "Got Foam?"

  15. #55
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    Too bad you gave up a classic Mack/Scope to get it.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    Any way you can drag your heels until LTI begins being offered on a Spartan Gladiator?

    That would make you a great machine. My personal preferences off your list would be KME or Pierce, and I would add Smeal.

    Work with the brand whose dealer will give you the best service, even if you have to sacrifice your first choice in apparatus. Please listen the voice of experience: Customer service is a lost art in the fire service like most everywhere else. The difference in the fire service is you are entering into a 15-20 year relationship.

    One last thing: On aerials, make sure you get the wall-to-wall turning radius as the front and/or rear overhangs will be factored in. As you already know, turning radius will also be affected by axle weight and suspension type.

    C6
    Take a look at a Crimson. Jim Salmi came from LTI and is charge of the Crimson Aerial Plant. His ladders are built like no other out there!! He has a grease-less ladder, ladder cradle assembly and probably the toughest ladder in the industry. You will see several similarities of a Crimson ladder beside an LTI, Plus it will be built on a Spartan Gladiator Chassis.

  17. #57
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    We have went to bid on a 75' ladder with a mim of a 1250 pump and 500 tank, with a 450 hp cummins engine and with a jak brake. The ladder truck will have a wheelbase of 234" or shorter. We will also be going to bid on a new custom cab pumper as well. The pumper is nothing really fancy just a basic truck with ladders on the side and a 10" newton dump and I believe a 1250 tank and pump.

  18. #58
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    A dump valve on a quint? 500 tank ? -
    ?

  19. #59
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    Whoops - I just re-read it - the dump is on the engine --- still I question the value of a 500 tank in a tanker shuttle.
    ?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by shag23 View Post
    We will also be going to bid on a new custom cab pumper as well. The pumper is nothing really fancy just a basic truck with ladders on the side and a 10" newton dump and I believe a 1250 tank and pump.
    1250 tank. Still....

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