1. #26
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    Still waiting on the letter, there has been no decision made that I am aware.There are issues no matter how you make entries with belays. First, if you use individual lines and are limited by the number of ropes, try using both ends of the rope for each individual (only if the distance will allow). You do not need seperate anchor points, just tie the first line off to the anchor point (if on a stable footing) and use the same device for the second entrant. Just an idea to save on space and equipment.

    If you use the butterfly method, limit it to two RESCUERS. I would never use the same belay for the patient and rescuers. If the space goes south, get your people out first, then the patient. The distance is measured by allowing the first entrant to reach the patient and gaining some slack, then you tie the butterfly at the entry point. If the first goes down for whatever reason, the second can attach to the main, take off his belay and switch it with the first and place the first entrant to the main and you stay on line. Or you can take 1910.146 paragraph (k)(3) regarding the EXTREME need to forego any belay line due to circumstances hindering the rescue.

    Finally, if it is an IDLH atmosphere I would not use the butterfly technique at all. There is a heightened danger there regarding safety other than just the potential for a fall, equipment malfunction, etc. I would force the issue regarding individual belays. These are just thoughts and insist that there are many ways to skin a cat, use what your are comfortable with and works for you.

  2. #27
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    When using a tripod we do not attach the belay to the tripod.

  3. #28
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    Well is looks like the Letter of Interpretation we were discussing is out. Got this from the Roco website.
    http://www.rocorescue.com/_blog/Roco...trieval_Lines/
    IMHO is appears that common sense prevailed.

    Dave

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIRECAPT62 View Post
    When using a tripod we do not attach the belay to the tripod.
    Cap, how would you negotiate the edge transition using the retrieval line without high help in a Type 3 or 4 (top entry) confined space?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue Dave View Post
    Well is looks like the Letter of Interpretation we were discussing is out. Got this from the Roco website.
    http://www.rocorescue.com/_blog/Roco...trieval_Lines/
    IMHO is appears that common sense prevailed.

    Dave
    Cool, I like that they differentiated authorized entrants from rescuers. I am not a fan of the butterflying into one retrieval line, but it leaves the option "legal" for those who want to run that way.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Cap, how would you negotiate the edge transition using the retrieval line without high help in a Type 3 or 4 (top entry) confined space?



    Cool, I like that they differentiated authorized entrants from rescuers. I am not a fan of the butterflying into one retrieval line, but it leaves the option "legal" for those who want to run that way.
    Drew, are you a proponent of separate lines? If so, this requires a lot of gear and also the entanglement issue. Just wondering your approach?

    What I mean to say is, how would you setup for this?
    Last edited by MichaelXYZ; 03-08-2013 at 04:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    Drew, are you a proponent of separate lines? If so, this requires a lot of gear and also the entanglement issue. Just wondering your approach?
    Yes though I would work off either system, I am a fan of seperate lines. And yes this uses more gear, adds one more line so not really an entaglement issue. No more than if you had a supplied air line and a hardwire comms line going in the hole also.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    What I mean to say is, how would you setup for this?
    Rig a MA for haul line, using an anchor plate with four carabiners on it (because friction is your friend on belay) for the 4 belay/retreival lines (2 for rescue entrants, 2 for back up team). Extend tripod to max height. Have a retreival MA set aside ready to piggieback on a retreival line if needed. If on air we can duct tape the air and comms lines to the retreival line every 10-15 feet. Pretty standard.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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