1. #1
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    Default Service Ladder/Ladder Tender/ Rescue with ground ladders

    Does anyone have any experience with this type of apparatus. If so how does that company operate;

    The city service ladder is an older term referring to apparatus that had the tools and ground ladders of a ladder co. without the main aerial ladder. This was done in both urban and suburban departments either to supplement existing truck companies or to act as a truck company stand alone. This type of apparatus fell out of fashion with the technology advances of modern aerial ladders and with the reduction of companies and stations over time.

    Some departments continue to use city service ladders but they are fewer and fewer. The only that I know off hand is the Town of Cary, NC operates T7 a city service Pierce velocity as a first line truck. The Indianapolis fd had two reserve ladders which were in essence city service trucks which would be used as reserves as a last resort

    A modern equivalent of the city service truck seems to be the Arizona Phoenix FD model ladder tender operation. A two piece company with a Tower ladder and a Med Duty Rescue. Where the smaller rescue (heavy rescue type, single axle coke truck) runs the every day service/ ems calls leaving the Tower driver only at the station. To my knowledge if both units are in quarters and the unit is dispatched for a fire they take only the Tower. If the Tender is on the air returning from a call and the unit is dispatched for a fire. The tender responds to the scene with 3 and the tower responds driver only and meets them.

    To my knowledge a few neighboring AZ fire departments use this concept. The cities in AZ are so sprawling that the milage placed on truck companies are excessive. The Tenders are medium duty rescues biased on either commercial or custom chassis with truck tools and a full compliment of ground ladders.

    In todays day and age it seems like a good concept to place ground ladders on "rescue" apparatus. In most instances a Rescue company is a specialized unit that travels past existing truck companies to respond on a fire. Having ground ladders only adds to the versatility.

    The point of this thread is to discuss the concept of the city service ladder and any of its other names. Include pictures, past experience and and theories on its application to the modern fire service
    Last edited by greggreg259; 06-29-2011 at 03:47 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    You are reffering to the unit called a "quad". And for sure is a dying breed. The Phoenix units you are reffering too, are called "Willard Wagons" by the locals. I think it's a reference to the guy who pushed for the concept.

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    Last edited by greggreg259; 06-29-2011 at 06:20 PM. Reason: addition

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    Jarrettsville, MD, runs a 2009 Spartan/4-Guys Rescue "Quad". It has a 1250 gpm pump, 915 gallons of water, and 1000ft of 5" hose. It carries a 35ft (2-section) and 28ft extension ladders, 20ft and 16ft roof ladders, 14ft and 10ft attic ladders, and a Little Giant ladder. We currently run it out second on structure fires as our "truck company". It also handles our extication duties with a 5-tool AMKUS Ultimate System.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJoe7197 View Post
    Jarrettsville, MD, runs a 2009 Spartan/4-Guys Rescue "Quad". It has a 1250 gpm pump, 915 gallons of water, and 1000ft of 5" hose. It carries a 35ft (2-section) and 28ft extension ladders, 20ft and 16ft roof ladders, 14ft and 10ft attic ladders, and a Little Giant ladder. We currently run it out second on structure fires as our "truck company". It also handles our extication duties with a 5-tool AMKUS Ultimate System.
    Wow, that's a lot of goodies on 1 truck! How is it working out for you? I ask, because I'm wondering- with a big tank like that, AND a massive ladder tunnel, how high is the hosebed? Did you have to lengthen the body to fit the 2 section ladders AND a pump house? Do you have any other pics of this rig?

    I like the idea of a ladder tender/ quad/ whatever you want to call it. For RURAL and exurban departments that don't run a dedicated truck, or have many areas where one simply wouldn't work. It's par for the course for most volly depts around me to run "rescue" style engines- so they can carry truck gear. Having the longer ladders, and more ladders period, on the rig operating at the fire end of that 1000' 5" line up the narrow driveway makes good sense.

    It's nice that you could fit those 2 section ladders- I HATE the three section ones. They're friggin boat anchors! Having to schlep them up a long steep drive, over rough or icy terrain, or in screaming hot summer just adds insult to injury. It's a recipe for injury, fatigued crews, or them not getting there at all. Better to put them on the first in attack piece!

    For the OP, having ladders and other support gear on the rescue box is a great idea, too. The dept next to us does just that. They have no truck- all the support tools are on the engines and the rescue. The rescue is a very versatile rig. It's on our box for automatic M/A to the village and most target hazards. That crew can be assigned as a truck w/o them having to scour all the other rigs on scene to assemble the needed tools.

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    I could see some departments running one simply to get more ground ladders to the scene. It seems most trucks nowadays are awfuly ill equipped in that department. My department has two newer pierce rear mounts that are pathetic. One 35 one 24 and (2) 16 ft straight ladders. The engine companies almost carry as much. They were demo units that were purchased cheaply, but regardless, most trucks comming out are very quick to dump the ground ladders for compartment space (for all these tools for a minimum staffed rig) and dare I say hose.

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    I can see the use only in the suburban and rural areas where set backs would make an aerial useless the majority of the time. I could also see it being of use if it were part of an actual two piece company (the ladder truck being fully staffed) to bring additional ground ladders and rescue equipment to the party, especially if the truck companies are doing a lot of specialty and technical rescue.

    As for that cross staffing garbage, I'm not a fan of it.

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    A department near me just got rid of nearly 6 of these engines. they have 97' of ladders. Not too shabby for thinking in 1989.

    http://firetrucksplus.com/imageuploa...L9000_Rear.jpg

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    I'm still failing to grasp the actual savings of the ladder tender concept. On the surface it appears that running about to EMS calls in a smaller vehicle, reducing wear and tear on a larger aerial could show some financial responsibility. But one must look a little further: Twice as many vehicles per company means twice as much maintenance, twice the driver training, an extra bay per assigned company, plus the apparatus and equipment costs. I find it hard to believe that these costs are less than the extra mileage and wear and tear on aerials. It seems like a public relations type concept that looks to the lay public like it saves money yet actually costs more. I could be wrong, but I'm skeptical.

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    Don't know if it has been placed in service at this point - but Indianapolis recently took delivery of a Freightliner/Ferrara city service ladder.

    Also, you can view photos of the Cary city service trucks on the Youngstown Fire Forums:

    1993 Pierce City Service

    1996 Seagrave/Marion City Service

    Mack/Craft City Service

    Quads are still around too. Just as an example Pleasure Ridge Park, Kentucky operates a pair of these 2000 Seagrave quads.

    Pleasure Ridge Park 2000 Seagrave Quad

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    Here's ours. 2007 Toyne/Spartan, 1500 GPM CAFS engine. 186" wheelbase. Height, 9' 11-1/2"

    Left side, 2 - 24' 2 sect. and a 10' attic ladder. Right side, 14' roof ladder and a 35' 3 sect. 13' Little Giant in the right front compartment. Total, 120'. Also carried: 2000' 5"; truckie tools, basic hydraulic rescue tools (small power unit, combi-tool, cutter and spreader); short and long stabilizing struts, other stuff.
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    LittleJoe7197,

    Can you post some more pictures? Looks like an interesting quad.

    We were interested in something like cheifengineer11's engine, but had to buy used instead, only carries a 35', 16' roof and 10' attic.

    We like the concept for rural dept. that can't afford or house a truck. Extra ground ladders on scene would be useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Wow, that's a lot of goodies on 1 truck! How is it working out for you? I ask, because I'm wondering- with a big tank like that, AND a massive ladder tunnel, how high is the hosebed? Did you have to lengthen the body to fit the 2 section ladders AND a pump house? Do you have any other pics of this rig?
    The unit works out well. The tank gallonage was not specified, rather UPF built the tank around the ladder compliment and hosebed and we let them tell us what it held. We wanted at least 500, 750 would have been better, but 915 was nice as we replaced a 1000 gallon engine.

    The hosebed is the typical height for a single-rear axle 1000 gallon engine. Since this is a tandem axle, we were able to move the water forward. The body includes the pumphouse and is 24ft long. The 20ft roof ladder actually extends into the pumphouse and the "hooks" must face out due to piping.

    Hose21, pm me your Email address and I will send you a link to pics.
    Last edited by LittleJoe7197; 07-03-2011 at 05:39 PM.

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    Nice. Sounds like a nicely designed engine.

    We have an '05 4Guys/Spartan engine. 900 some-odd gal tank, with 2 tunnels, 1 on each side of the tank, behind the high sides. Ladders on one side, hard sleeves, poles and backboards on the other. I like it- it keeps everything inside, out of the snow, slush, salt, and tree limbs, AND it's all at a reasonable height. No more climbing after hard sleeves! Hosebed is about average for a 1000 gal tank on a short wheelbase, maybe a touch lower than the Pierce. 4Guys was very good to work with, pretty much wide open to whatever customizations you wanted. Last I heard we were looking hard at another.

    We had to go with the 3 fly 35's on our quint, due to length. With the tank, pump box, and forward outriggers, there wasn't enough room for the 2 fly's we really wanted w/o making the truck too long. There WAS enough room for two of em AND a 24'er, plus strait ladders, hooks and an attic ladder. The longer strait ladder is on the bed section of the aerial.

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