ARFF and PPV

[firefighterbeau]

Doing some research for a upcoming equipment purchase, we are looking at a new fan, currently we have a negative pressure fan (smoke ejector). Can gas powered PPV fans be used on aircraft incidents? I did read through the ARFF text and there is very little on aircraft ventilation.

[Bushwhacker]

What are you trying Vent on a Aircraft????

[fire49]

Give dfw a call


http://www.dfwairport.com/dps/training/fire.php


Seems like it would depend on type of incident and aircraft

[neiowa]

http://www.tempest-edge.com/mvu/index.htm

[FFWALT]

All though I am not a huge fan of them, there are electric PPV fans out there. That would require a generator on your ARFF or support vehicle in order to run it.
How do you plan on getting this fan into position? The height of the cabin floor coupled with the stairs and limited entrance and egress points could make this problematic.

Just wondering,
Walt

[mikeyboy411]

Doing some research for a upcoming equipment purchase, we are looking at a new fan, currently we have a negative pressure fan (smoke ejector). Can gas powered PPV fans be used on aircraft incidents? I did read through the ARFF text and there is very little on aircraft ventilation.

Yes they can be used for ARFF incidents. I know a few ARFF FDs that have large PPV Fans mounted on a Commercial Truck Chassis that use it for ventilating aircraft, PPVing the Jetway (if needed), also for PPVing the airport itself due to the large open area and if needed can respond to the Hotels around the airport for PPV. As far as the smaller fans, I know they use them the same as Structure FDs do.

[gunnyv]

How do you plan on getting this fan into position? The height of the cabin floor coupled with the stairs and limited entrance and egress points could make this problematic.

Many large ARFF units have their own jetways/mobile stair units that respond from the FD, or have an immediate response with other airport personnel. There is usually enough room to place a fan on the top.

[FFWALT]

Thanks Gunnyv,

I've seen the self contained fans on a seperate truck chassis.
I think we are both making assumptions here. You're thinking large airport and I'm thinking small.

Out of curiosity firefighterbeau, what kind of airport are you dealing with?
It won't affect the use of PPV in an ARFF incident but it will just give us some perspective of where you are coming from.

Thanks,
Walt

[firefighterbeau]

Thanks for the replies, I was thinking it would be another tool for the tool box, since we have one smoke ejector and no PPV. If we had an interior fire or smoke inside an aircraft it could be used to clear the smoke whether the fan is placed at the top of air stairs or if the aircraft is up to the jetway already. The other idea was to have it for buildings on the airport grounds. Our Chief is against getting PPV for the limited uses, but I feel not having it limits our ability to ventilate in different situations. Everything has its place and use, just trying to find those places and uses. While reading the texts on ARFF it was mentioned PPV could be used to cool hot brakes, then I learned that statement in the book is incorrect, since PPV could fan the heat and make things worse.

[gunnyv]

We used used to use PPV for hot brakes all the time. The key is HOT brakes, not ON FIRE brakes. You do have to be careful, don't want a tire to blow while you're setting up the fan.

[firefighterbeau]

We used used to use PPV for hot brakes all the time. The key is HOT brakes, not ON FIRE brakes. You do have to be careful, don't want a tire to blow while you're setting up the fan.

Thats what I was thinking when I read it in the book, the way I had it explained to me of why not to use a fan on hot brakes is take a piece of wood that has hot embers, if you blow on the embers they glow and become hotter, and may even flare up. When this is applied to flammable metals it could start the combustion process, and of course with magnesium that could start a fire that would be hard to put out. I still say though there is a time and place to use the fan...

[mikeyboy411]

We are also taught that when a tire blows, the valve stem, plug and metal attached could or possibly will fly out and strike the Suppression Team. Aircraft tires are "no joke" they're big, heavy and create a heck of a debris field when they grenade.

[Rescue101]

We are also taught that when a tire blows, the valve stem, plug and metal attached could or possibly will fly out and strike the Suppression Team. Aircraft tires are "no joke" they're big, heavy and create a heck of a debris field when they grenade.

WHO taught you that? Most aircraft tires have industrial valve stems like TT units. Bolted in,going NOWHERE unless the whole wheel explodes.Flying RUBBER,YES! T.c.

[mikeyboy411]

That's how the DOD ARFF/FF Disc tell you to approach a hot brake or tire fire. 45 off the corner because of shrapnel from an exploding wheel and shrapnel such as the valve stem and plug. I don't work at one of our ARFF Stations now (thank heaven, it's Truck Work for me) but that is what was drilled into my head..... Approach at a 45, approach at a 45, approach at a 45.....

It also shows a Crew fighting a F/S with Silvers, so..... I am always thankful that all we ever had was a "Hard Landing" and a few private small aircraft actually have "Incidents" on our runway.

[Rescue101]

That's how the DOD ARFF/FF Disc tell you to approach a hot brake or tire fire. 45 off the corner because of shrapnel from an exploding wheel and shrapnel such as the valve stem and plug. I don't work at one of our ARFF Stations now (thank heaven, it's Truck Work for me) but that is what was drilled into my head..... Approach at a 45, approach at a 45, approach at a 45.....

It also shows a Crew fighting a F/S with Silvers, so..... I am always thankful that all we ever had was a "Hard Landing" and a few private small aircraft actually have "Incidents" on our runway.

ANY vehicle fire as it has been for YEARS here. I'm not working around BIG aircraft but that doesn't exempt me from knowing about the wheel assemblies.In all my time on the job,I can't remember seeing a VALVE assembly fly. I've see plenty of split rims go though. T.C.

[mikeyboy411]

We deal with C-130s (all models), C-17s (all models), medium and light personal aircraft and a crap load of Rotary Wings (a HUGE variation) pretty routinely.

And as far as Vehicle Fires go, we get our fair share.....

[Rescue101]

The ONLY way you land any of that stuff HERE would be in PIECES.Closest runways that can handle them are all 30-75 miles away. Been a disappointing year,no people no problems. T.C.