View Poll Results: What was the top selling point in your departments choice?

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  • Pierce

    15 15.96%
  • Sutphen

    19 20.21%
  • E -One

    18 19.15%
  • KME

    7 7.45%
  • American Lafrance

    4 4.26%
  • Rosenbauer

    8 8.51%
  • Other (Smeal, Crimson, Seagrave, Etc.)

    23 24.47%
  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Silly me. I thought we were talking about AERIALS. T.C.
    Heat gettin' to ya?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Silly me. I thought we were talking about AERIALS. T.C.
    Well, to me the aerial icludes the chassis.

    I guess I read more into the question .......
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Heat gettin' to ya?
    And speaking of the heat, what the hell is this chit???

    I come up here (NY/VT) from LA to see my parents and kids, and to cool off for a few days, and it's a damn heat wave.

    I go back to LA tommarrow, where it's still hot as an oven, until Sunday when I fly out to Vegas for the Radiological class for 6 days, where the expected high today was 108 degrees.

    Enough with the dang heat!

    P.S .. I got the sunburn the last couple of days to prove how fricken hot it iss up here.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    You DO realize the Ferrera is a SMEAL........Right? T.C.
    I always wondered, does FFA use the stick only, and build their own torque boxes and stabilizers, or does Smeal build the whole aerial package on/for the Ferrara chassis'?

    I noticed Smeal's "regular" 100' 500# tip load stick is a 105' er, while Ferrara's is a 107'. I wonder, are these spec built just for FFA, or is it just due to chassis or measuring differences?

    Either way, I'd say it was a wise choice- I've heard nothing but good things about Smeal's aerials.

    I don't know of any Smeal or FFA ladders in my area. Smeal has a few pumpers around, and Ferrara is selling more and more rigs in NYS, but none that I know of near me. Pierce and E-one are the big sellers here, followed by ALF ( LTI) and RD Murray ( aerial Innovations). There have been a lot of Seagraves too- both regular and FDNY surplus. Don't see any new ones, though.

    FWIW, Rochester uses all E-one trucks, and just ordered a bunch of Rosenbauer engines. The inner ring suburbs love the E-Ones, too. Syracuse is, of course, all Sutphen.

    We own an RD Murray. We looked hard at Smeal, KME, and Pierce as well as E-one. The RDM/AI was the best fit in our low door firehouse, and gave us the most for our money. The fact that the factory was an hour and a half away was a huge selling point, too. ( our last two before that were both from Wisconsin. Factory visits could be a challenge, not to mention expensive and time consuming.)

  5. #30
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    Chassis is Ferrera,Torque box Etc is SMEAL. Smeal reserves a few "niceities" that they don't offer FFA. And FFA plays a few of their own with length. BOTH are a GOOD product and both have some perks to themselves. We tested a FFA here and I found it to be a nice rig to drive and operate. T.C.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Heat gettin' to ya?
    Nope,ripped a page off the Brunicini play book. Climate controlled,quiet command space. How SWEET it is! When you coming to visit? T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I noticed Smeal's "regular" 100' 500# tip load stick is a 105' er, while Ferrara's is a 107'. I wonder, are these spec built just for FFA, or is it just due to chassis or measuring differences?
    I think its a mix of a play on numbers and a little longer bolt on egress. Our Smeal is a 75' but its actually a 76' if you look at the charts at maximum allowed elevation (pitch) and max extension. My guess is if Ferrara's egress is a bit longer, their allowed equipment at the tip is lowered to compensate.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain7 View Post
    You don't have to make it's computer happy before you can go to work, and it doesn't think it is smarter than you. Simple and effective. Always ready to go to work. You can fly around the straight sticks from the bucket and give them the finger


    That's gorgeous. Absolutely beautiful.

  9. #34
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    At my previous department we had a 75' E-One stick. Liked it just fine for what it was. At my current department I drive a 95' E-One platform every third day. We also have a 100' Pierce platform on the other end of the county. Most prefer the E-One. Like someone mentioned, if the doors will open you can set the jacks. E-One's reputation preceeds them in the aerial category. Plus there is just something that rubs me wrong about pinning jacks.

    That being said, with unlimited funds, I would be looking at a Sutphen.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At my previous department we had a 75' E-One stick. Liked it just fine for what it was. At my current department I drive a 95' E-One platform every third day. We also have a 100' Pierce platform on the other end of the county. Most prefer the E-One. Like someone mentioned, if the doors will open you can set the jacks. E-One's reputation preceeds them in the aerial category. Plus there is just something that rubs me wrong about pinning jacks.

    That being said, with unlimited funds, I would be looking at a Sutphen.
    You don't HAVE to pin the ones with pins. They use the same type(self locking)of hydraulics that E-one does. The pins are a REDUNDANT safety. I'll take my pins for an extra 11' of horizontal reach. T.C.

  11. #36
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    Crimson Builds Probably The Toughest + Strongest Ladder In The Industry. Not only having the knowledge of Jim Salmi the COO of Crimson Fire (Ladder Facility) along with their engineers he brought along with him from LTI. He wanted to make his ladders different than those built by LTI. He did this with Crimson Fire and their ladders. This was building the ladders tougher, with the ladder cradle assembly along with the grease-less ladder. If you ever get a chance take a look close look at a Crimson Ladder!! Trust me you won't be disappointed!!

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    I LIKE the Crimson product. Strongest ladder? Interpretive by user. The Smeal ladder size for size has the longest HORIZONTAL reach of any ladder built in the US. With a 100'MM platform reaching 99' horizontal and 1000# load factor,I'd rate that personally as a STRONG ladder. You are correct that Crimson has taken the Best of LTI and improved it. I've flown a Crimson and it is even nicer than the Lti product which has been a measuring stick in ladders for years. The Crimson roller system is a novel idea and servicing one is well thought out. Early version of some of the Ladders had Torque box issues;as far as I know these have all been resolved.Look for them to be a contender in the coming years. T.C.

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    TC, maybe we've had this discussion before, and I in no way am doubting the Smeal's measuring tape, but how is it that they measure compared to the way other builders measure? I know our LTI 93' tower has an 88' side reach due basically to the body. Or maybe owing to the difference between the height of the turntable vs the radius from the center of the base section to the edge of the body? The height of 93' I believe is inclusive of the turntable starting point. So if measured the same way, the Smeal product either must actually reach higher than it's stated 100' length or not account for the loss of 4-5 feet from the center of the TT to the side of the body? Again, not trying to stir anything, but just wondering if we all could line up these trucks and measure the exact same way if we'd find the rated length vs. side reach to be far closer to each other? Of course I may have how this is measured mixed up in my head too?
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 07-30-2011 at 12:30 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    TC, maybe we've had this discussion before, and I in no way am doubting the Smeal's measuring tape, but how is it that they measure compared to the way other builders measure? I know our LTI 93' tower has an 88' side reach due basically to the body. Or maybe owing to the difference between the height of the turntable vs the radius from the center of the base section to the edge of the body? The height of 93' I believe is inclusive of the turntable starting point. So if measured the same way, the Smeal product either must actually reach higher than it's stated 100' length or not account for the loss of 4-5 feet from the center of the TT to the side of the body? Again, not trying to stir anything, but just wondering if we all could line up these trucks and measure the exact same way if we'd find the rated length vs. side reach to be far closer to each other? Of course I may have how this is measured mixed up in my head too?
    Get yer azz down here and measure. Give you a good excuse for you to leave the mainland. Longer sections I presume.Never did drop a tape over the side,If I get BORED I will. Right NOW,SLEEP is a priority. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 07-31-2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    TC, maybe we've had this discussion before, and I in no way am doubting the Smeal's measuring tape, but how is it that they measure compared to the way other builders measure? I know our LTI 93' tower has an 88' side reach due basically to the body. Or maybe owing to the difference between the height of the turntable vs the radius from the center of the base section to the edge of the body? The height of 93' I believe is inclusive of the turntable starting point. So if measured the same way, the Smeal product either must actually reach higher than it's stated 100' length or not account for the loss of 4-5 feet from the center of the TT to the side of the body? Again, not trying to stir anything, but just wondering if we all could line up these trucks and measure the exact same way if we'd find the rated length vs. side reach to be far closer to each other? Of course I may have how this is measured mixed up in my head too?
    Smeal reaches full height at a different angle than the others. To reach 100' at a lower degree elevation requires a longer ladder. That means it is farther over the jacks at full height for greater setback reach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Smeal reaches full height at a different angle than the others. To reach 100' at a lower degree elevation requires a longer ladder. That means it is farther over the jacks at full height for greater setback reach.
    Aren't Smeals ladders rated at around 74ish degrees elevation? Compared to Aerialcat's 80 degrees ( I believe), that's a good difference in ladder length! Translating to a better flat horizontal reach, and a larger scrub area, too.

    We have long set backs galore- so we get the 100'er for reach more than for height. We currently own a 105' AI stick.

    I haven't looked into Crimson's ladders much, but they sound good- judging from the above posts... Either way, both Smeal and Crimson will build on a Spartan Gladiator, and both will build you a nice truck.

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    72 degrees to be precise. T.c.

  18. #43
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    My Seagrave is a beast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picc.93Truck View Post
    My Seagrave is a beast!
    Your rigs do not look enough like FDNY. You need to mangle the bumpers some, rub the sides up against a taxi cab or two, crack some of the windows, put the tip of the main into a fire for a minute or two, and get mis-matched wheels.
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    E-One engine next to a Seagrave ladder. That's a first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
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    Talking Prefered Aerials

    I find it interesting that two of the more popular aerials are AL-U-MIN-IUM !!

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    And they're two of the safest, strongest ones out there.

    BTW... Now when we're talking about Midmount Towers and bigger aerials, another factor that should be considered is curb weight to get the job done. This is in no way a jab at anyone, but some of these rigs are pushing new envelopes on maxing out suspensions and many do not take into consideration that some roads just can't support 80k on 10 contact points.

    Horizontal reach is great, but when you can get a lighter weight rig, you may be able to get closer to make up for the difference.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by EES_SEAN View Post
    And they're two of the safest, strongest ones out there.

    BTW... Now when we're talking about Midmount Towers and bigger aerials, another factor that should be considered is curb weight to get the job done. This is in no way a jab at anyone, but some of these rigs are pushing new envelopes on maxing out suspensions and many do not take into consideration that some roads just can't support 80k on 10 contact points.

    Horizontal reach is great, but when you can get a lighter weight rig, you may be able to get closer to make up for the difference.
    Or NOT. Everyone brings up good points. Our Ladder was specced for OUR needs and has exceeded our expectations in EVERY category. Almost 4 years in the planning and building, the rig has allowed a fleet reduction while maximizing the amount of work we can accomplish with less manpower. For US.horizontal reach means the difference between success and failure due to the construction of the area. Aluminum is great but it too has it's own set of issues,repairing being a BIG one in this area. Now if you want to talk about a long reaching,light,easy to place STEEL Ladder,how about a Metz? Oh,I forgot: you guys don't consider that a Ladder. Suspension TODAY isn't a problem,there are a few HD suspensions that can(and do)take 120,000#s every day. Roads? Yup,those CAN be a problem. T.C.

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    In looking to replace our 89' E-One 135 we (the apparatus committe) decided that in the 20 years since our last ladder purchase, lit would be worth our time to look at every available possability in reguards to aerials. We requested literature from and went to look at just about every aerial manufacturer in the states. Once we started looking, we first eliminated any company that was not a 100% true sole source mfg. We didn't want problems with the aerial or the chassis down the road and have the rig sit out of service while people fight over whos responsability the repair was. Second we looked at what aerials were offered by the remaining mfgs. compaired the pros and cons of each and decided what would work best for us. We decided on a tiller. As we looked at the different tillers that are available it came down to 2.. Seagrave and E-One. We went back and forth for about 3 weeks as to wich one we felt was better...it was a very diffacult decision, but it came down to the aerial itself. One thing everyone on the committe didn't like about steel ladders was the dimensions of the ladder fly's, they were smaller than those on an aluminum ladder, and having had an aluminum ladder and working from it, we liked the extra room. So, becasue of the benafits of the aluminum ladder over steel, we chose E-One.
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    FWD - You covered most of it, but I would add "melt or break those spot lights off the tip by putting it through a window"

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