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  1. #1
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Default St. Louis FD Quints....

    Anybody here on the St. Louis FD, or know the story of their quints???

    I happened to be at Interstate Detroit Diesel when I walked by one of their rigs. The ladder and pump was removed, and ALOT of new MAJOR parts were installed. Looked like it was going through a refurb.

    Asked the service manager about all the new parts, and he said that it is one of 10 rigs to be refurbished. He also said another 10 rigs are being put to pasture. In total, they are to get 10 rigs refurbed, and 10 new ones.

    Now my curiosity has the better of me. Is this a voluntary thing they are doing, or is it something that we went through 10 years ago. By that, I mean that we didn't do annual ladder inspections on them by a third party. When one had a very serious issue, the whole fleet of aerials got inspected, and most of them failed for one reason or another. We had to purchase 6 new aerials and have them delivered, like yesterday. (this happened a couple years before I started, not that it makes any difference)

    I'm just looking for some info on them, and not trying to give the dept. a bad rap.

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  2. #2
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    This is part of the switch back to an engine/ladder concept for the city. In addition to taking delivery of several new Smeal pumpers, they're also doing a major refurb of several of their older quints. It wasn't due to neglect, just trying to lengthen the service life of the vehicle.
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    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    FIREMECH1,

    When we were at Smeal in late 2008 working on our engine they had a picture of the St. Louis quints and the rep commented that St. Louis was going back to the engine/ladder concept and away from the quints. That was the last I heard from Smeal but that seems in line with what was posted and what you saw.
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    They are already taking steps toward that as they have at least one truck in service that is solely an engine. They are also changing their truck colors to Black on top and red on bottom.

  5. #5
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    The Smeal engines are in service at Engines 1, 2, 8, 23, 24, 26, 28, 31, and 32. I believe there might be a couple of additional ones as well. A member on another board, who's associated with the STLFD shop, said that they expect the refurbs to take about 100 days per rig.

    The quints, which were labeled as engines but called pumpers, are now designated as trucks. The 100' rigs are "Hook and Ladder".

    Some photos I took of the new engines at FDIC this year...



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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    I like that tailboard line! Thats pretty snazzy!
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    Nice big intake and discharge piping on the officers side. Pump size?
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    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    I know the Hook & Ladders are 2250gpm, but I can't swear that the new engines are.

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    I didn't realize Smeal offered the ergonomic hosebed on ENGINES! That's a first for me. I wonder what size tank is above it, and how that effects handling/ center of gravity.

    As for the tailboard crosslays- it looks like there are actually two. I recall reading an article in another magazine on the St Louis quints, where they specifically asked for ALL intakes and discharges to go on the officer's side pump panel or rear- none on the drivers pump panel. The article also said they all had 2000gpm pumps ( the 75' quints), and they wanted no crosslays- so nobody had to climb up top. ( Those quints had them in the high side compartments- 2x 1.75", and a 2.5" deadlay in the roll out hosebed) Looks like those same ideas were used here.

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    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    A couple of more shots that may help you...





    The Command Light is stowed where the hosebed would normally be on a pumper.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I like that tailboard line! Thats pretty snazzy!
    That's cool....
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    Our newest rig has crosslays in the front bumper and to me the hose bed being down low like that, whether on the front bumper, or back step, makes complete sense. No climbing, or reaching over the pump panel, is required to empty the bed. And no climbing, or reaching, is required for loading the bed and usually less people are needed.

    I applaud St Louis for thinking outside the box and coming up with a rig that fits their needs.
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    I like the low hose bed.. I assume the whole thing pulls out for repacking?

    Also, what's directly above it? Looks like a booster reel. Also, how big is that diamond-plate door? It's hard to tell from the pics but is it enough for a few ground ladders?
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  14. #14
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    I like the low hose bed.. I assume the whole thing pulls out for repacking?

    Also, what's directly above it? Looks like a booster reel. Also, how big is that diamond-plate door? It's hard to tell from the pics but is it enough for a few ground ladders?
    Yes, that's Smeal EHL (Ergonomic Hose Load). It's the same device they've been using on the quints for a decade or so, so they must like how it operates.

    It is a booster reel over the EHL.

    The diamond plate door does cover the ladders, hooks, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    I didn't realize Smeal offered the ergonomic hosebed on ENGINES! That's a first for me. I wonder what size tank is above it, and how that effects handling/ center of gravity.
    Not sure on the tank size, but think it might be 500? From a poster on another forum "in the know", they stated that the Smeal engineers told them that the weight of the water and the hosebed & hose was pretty much the same and therefore switching them really didn't affect that so much.

    Also, I believe they just started to offer the EHL on engines. Not sure if they did it on their own or if came about as a request from St. Louis???

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    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Great pics !!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1 View Post
    Great pics !!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks! I shoot for some of the trade journals.
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  18. #18
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    FIREMECH1,

    When we were at Smeal in late 2008 working on our engine they had a picture of the St. Louis quints and the rep commented that St. Louis was going back to the engine/ladder concept and away from the quints. That was the last I heard from Smeal but that seems in line with what was posted and what you saw.
    The removal of the pump and ladder was so they could be sent out for rebuilding. They plan on reinstalling both the pump and ladder. Smeal has the ladder, and is going through the refurb/rebuild of it. Not sure where the pump went to.

    One thing that did catch my eye, was actually how well the body and frame looked. Not knowing the age of it, I'd say it was only 5-8 years old. It was really pretty clean, and didn't look all that abused.

    @ Box... Are the new engines a step toward the direction of replacing the quints that are being trash canned? From what I've seen, they were heavily dependent on quints. If so, this would fill in what FFWALT, was talking about.

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    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 07-20-2011 at 02:17 AM.
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  19. #19
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    @ Box... Are the new engines a step toward the direction of replacing the quints that are being trash canned? From what I've seen, they were heavily dependent on quints.
    Correct, they were the first department in the US to use the Total Quint Concept. However, they're now moving away from that back to a more traditional engine/ladder deployment model.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 07-20-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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    Maybe Iím a creature of habit or just dinosaur, but I do not see the advantage of this type of design for a standard Engine Co that operates in an urban environment. Where is all the hose?? What about hand stretches on NFP (non-standpipe) multipleís, Commercials, set back structures, etc. IMO, not much versatility for overall Engine Opís -- ability to place multiple non-preconnected lines in operation? It appears to have an LDH supply line bed, room for a limited static bed next to that and 3 or so preconnects??

    I probably donít see the advantage to this design because Iím not familiar with St Louisís engine operations. I would guess they use some type of manifold/gated Y when deploying multiple handlines for stretches beyond the reach of preconnects? In the end the design must work for them --- glad to see them getting away from the (manpower killers) quints.

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