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Thread: FDNY Exam 2000

  1. #2576
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    I said it before the only way to do good on the personality test was to have lied.. they wont hire liars.. Everyone said to be honest and tell the truth..

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeShowing307 View Post
    I said it before the only way to do good on the personality test was to have lied.. they wont hire liars.. Everyone said to be honest and tell the truth..
    You might be right but what would be the purpose in allowing people to protest those questions?? What would be the purpose in even giving us PC or FC credit for them?

    I think these will be graded it's just a matter of what formula they going to use in order to do do it.

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    It was interesting to see another poster note that they saw someone crying at the review. I saw that twice at my review session.

    I used the Don McNea prep booklet purchased from the McNea site. The booklet was pretty through in explaining the type of characteristics these exams are looking for. There is good information there if anyone has it. I also had a study guide that PSI produced for LA County Fire in 2007. It had a few example questions and a short paragraph on the personality portion. The LA county guide did note not to think about what "they" were looking for when taking that portion of the exam and it was in the best interest to be honest.

    Remember, we have not yet been informed about how the exam will be weighted or scored. There is no final answer key yet. I remember when I got my result for 6019, I think I had 11 or 12 total wrong. But when the list numbers came out, I had a good list number. I'm willing to venture that's how some of you felt as well, with 6019. Anything can happen. The biggest variable in all of this is the judge. He has to review the exam he oversaw as it was created, an exam that is supposed to be non-biased, and approve the exam. Lots can change in the coming months.

    Also, remember that the Department has not hired since mid 2008. We are now nearing four years since that time. I would not be surprised if it were to reach five or even six years. My understanding is that OT is high now and that they are concerned about the coming summer months. Although it may not be a huge amount of members, retirements still occur and will continue to. Point is, when hiring does begin again, they will need people. We may have to wait one, two, three or even four years, but it will be well worth it.
    Last edited by Minerva; 01-12-2013 at 10:38 AM.
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    Anyone have a clue how many NYC residents took the exam? Thats the only thing im worried about. I scored well, just dont have the residency credit to go along with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desire4theJob View Post
    Yes I do hear what your saying but we all doubt those who basically bs'ed the personality score for those perfect or near perfect scores will be what they are looking for. Trust me I will be beside myself if they come out and say yes we want the guys who claim to have NEVER told a lie before or that I was punished because I didn't help any coworkers out last month because I am unemployed. I think alot of questions are gonna be used for reference more than anything else.
    I would really be surprised if they scored the exam so the person who made him or herself seem perfect gets the better score. Especially because there were quite a few personality questions related to current work experience, and since all that seems to matter to the judge so far is the statistics of how well minorities do, then it would seem odd to me that they would penalize you for being unemployed when according to the most recent jobs report, the group with the highest unemployment levels in this country is black men in the age range that were eligible to take this test. Just my opinion of course, but if its racist to ask fire specific questions on a firefighter exam because apparently only white people know that information, then i would think the people who agree with the first part of this sentence would also agree that questions that penalize unemployment are discriminatory as well. As i said, I would be surprised if they graded it this way, but this process has been full of surprises so who knows. Well all just have to wait and find out.

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    Why are you guys attempting to rationalize crappy scores on the personality section? PSI already decided what answers are worth more points than others. If they want guys that are middle of the road and wanted mediocre answers, then the mediocre answers would have been FC and the "perfect" answers would've been PC. It's really not that difficult to comprehend. The only thing that remains a question is if each section will be graded equally or some more than the other like many other cities are doing, with the personality section being worth more than the general knowledge questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravendmb1 View Post
    Anyone have a clue how many NYC residents took the exam? Thats the only thing im worried about. I scored well, just dont have the residency credit to go along with it.
    I don't know if I read it here on on fdny rant but I think someone posted the city anticipates 60% of those that took the test will claim the residency credits. TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of people miss out on the credit because they didn't bother reading the notice of exam telling them what paperwork they need or they're just too damn lazy to do so.

  8. #2583
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromQueens View Post
    I don't know if I read it here on on fdny rant but I think someone posted the city anticipates 60% of those that took the test will claim the residency credits. TBH I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of people miss out on the credit because they didn't bother reading the notice of exam telling them what paperwork they need or they're just too damn lazy to do so.

    That was me, Tom. That's the info Washington passed along to us during one of the Vulcan reviews. That number seemed a bit high to me too, but if you look at the break down of the people who took the exam I think it makes sense. Rough estimate about an extra 10-11K took this exam vs 6019, and it looks like that 10-11 is made up mostly of minorities/women. I would assume most of them came from the city, and even if they screwed up marking down for residency on the exam would anyone be surprised if a certain group was allowed to claim the residency after the fact? My guess would be between 55-60% have some sort of extra points.

  9. #2584
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    I got 2 NC and 15 PC on the persionality. I also have the residency, hope those questions didn't mess my chances up.

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    From what they said in the class hoste by firefighter training group. They said that with the persionality potion you have to be within a certain range. If you get to many right then your over that range if you got to many wrong then your under that range. So you have to get the perfect amount of FC and PC. I hope this is true because I had gotten 15 pc. But this is just what they said it could be wrong don't take my word for it. Good luck guys!

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    Not for nothing BUT.... I think that us who finished the process in 2008 should get an extra 50 points :X ...
    Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukez View Post
    Not for nothing BUT.... I think that us who finished the process in 2008 should get an extra 50 points :X ...
    Lol
    Sign me up lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HopefulFF View Post
    That was me, Tom. That's the info Washington passed along to us during one of the Vulcan reviews. That number seemed a bit high to me too
    There's your first mistake, taking info from Washington. This is the same guy who said the draft was going to be re-instituted, so take it for what it is.

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    I'm not rationalizing anything, but I'd love for someone to explain to me that because someone was praised at work and I am unemployed or am self-employed so I wasn't and I that I rent, therefore I don't have many "home projects" they are more qualified. I am sure that will hold up in court.

    My two cents, they are gonna use those questions to get an idea of the candidate and possibly further discuss in an interview. You can't give a score on whether someone helps people in their family when they may or may not even have one.

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    I decided to take a look at the test guide PSI produced for LA County FD in 2007. I know it's a little dated, but here's basically what it says about the "work orientation" section: It is designed to measure your views about work related situations and behaviors. It includes attributes such as conscientiousness, handling work pressure, getting along with others, integrity and trustworthiness.

    The guide then gives two examples: "I remain clam in tense situations" and "I prefer work that is routine."

    Then the guide notes to select the answer that best describes you, not to try to figure out what answer might be most desirable or expected and to select the answer which best describes your views.

    Then I took a look as the McNea test guide again as well. The McNea guide recommended several things. One was not to answer questions relative to your current career field. This guide talked about how questions on stress characteristics, teamwork, impression control and questions regarding stealing, drug use and honesty would be important.They suggest that if the answers they recommended on their practice "questions" did not describe you, to answer them in the most "genuine" manner. The guide gave a whole list of characteristics specific to the firefighting field, that make a good firefighter. Who decides what these things? It does not mention anything in regards to that. The guide had probably 100 or so example "questions."

    At one point, PSI did some sort of survey with current FDNY members. Then once they created the exam, before they gave it to us, they gave it to current members, I think to see if it was applicable to the job. I'd have to look back at the court documents, that outline the process for creating this exam, to get more specific.

    If I recall correctly, PSI was chosen because they've created exams that have stood up to challenge in court. And they cover more than just firefighting. They create exams for a wide variety of fields. As far as I can tell, they have a good reputation.
    Last edited by Minerva; 05-22-2012 at 09:23 AM.
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    First off,

    To anyone saying we have to throw out the exam due to personality part, we won't be considering it until the results are in.

    Why?

    We do not know how it is going to be graded and we are putting our carts in front of the horse.

    Secondly,

    You never know what could happen with this exam, we don't even know if it will be approved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureFirefighter2000 View Post
    From what they said in the class hoste by firefighter training group. They said that with the persionality potion you have to be within a certain range. If you get to many right then your over that range if you got to many wrong then your under that range. So you have to get the perfect amount of FC and PC. I hope this is true because I had gotten 15 pc. But this is just what they said it could be wrong don't take my word for it. Good luck guys!
    I heard that as well but Think it's untrue in this situation, which really sucks for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desire4theJob View Post
    I'm not rationalizing anything, but I'd love for someone to explain to me that because someone was praised at work and I am unemployed or am self-employed so I wasn't and I that I rent, therefore I don't have many "home projects" they are more qualified. I am sure that will hold up in court.

    My two cents, they are gonna use those questions to get an idea of the candidate and possibly further discuss in an interview. You can't give a score on whether someone helps people in their family when they may or may not even have one.
    I think one or two of the questions you mentioned were labeled ungraded at the review. I do agree your point makes sense thou.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I think one or two of the questions you mentioned were labeled ungraded at the review. I do agree your point makes sense thou.
    Good to know. I won't be attending a review, but had I known that I could have saved my breath lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I think one or two of the questions you mentioned were labeled ungraded at the review. I do agree your point makes sense thou.
    The ones that were ungraded for me were the questions about high school.

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    for me any question that you had to type an answer was ungraded.(on personality). just a quick question, i know i shouldnt be to nervous yet cuz it hasnt been graded i got 2nc and 9pc you think that with my vet and resident that will put me in a decent postiton?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minerva View Post
    I decided to take a look at the test guide PSI produced for LA County FD in 2007. I know it's a little dated, but here's basically what it says about the "work orientation" section: It is designed to measure your views about work related situations and behaviors. It includes attributes such as conscientiousness, handling work pressure, getting along with others, integrity and trustworthiness.

    The guide then gives two examples: "I remain clam in tense situations" and "I prefer work that is routine."

    Then the guide notes to select the answer that best describes you, not to try to figure out what answer might be most desirable or expected and to select the answer which best describes your views.

    Then I took a look as the McNea test guide again as well. The McNea guide recommended several things. One was not to answer questions relative to your current career field. The guides talked about how questions on stress characteristics, teamwork, impression control and questions regarding stealing, drug use and honesty would be important.They suggest that if the answers they recommended on their practice "questions" did not describe you, to answer them in the most "genuine" manner. The guide gave a whole list of characteristics specific to the firefighting field, that make a good firefighter. Who decides what these things? It does not mention anything in regards to that. The guide had probably 100 or so example "questions."

    At one point, PSI did some sort of survey with current FDNY members. Then once they created the exam, before they gave it to us, they gave it to current members, I think to see if it was applicable to the job. I'd have to look back at the court documents, that outline the process for creating this exam, to get more specific.

    If I recall correctly, PSI was chosen because they've created exams that have stood up to challenge in court. And they cover more than just firefighting. They create exams for a wide variety of fields. As far as I can tell, they have a good reputation.


    Prior to administering the exam it was given out to current FDNY FFs and they had to give their feedback on it. You're spot on about PSI and the reason they were chosen to create this exam.

    Do you know any statistics for PSI in relation to how many of their test Q's get protested & over turned? I wasn't able to find anything on this when I looked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myles8683 View Post
    for me any question that you had to type an answer was ungraded.(on personality). just a quick question, i know i shouldnt be to nervous yet cuz it hasnt been graded i got 2nc and 9pc you think that with my vet and resident that will put me in a decent postiton?
    I have no idea how the test is going to be graded but 2nc and 9PCs PLUS 10 extra points would definitely put you on top of the list. Let's say from those 2 NC and 9 pcs you lose 5 points ( that's if some aren't changed or throwned out) that still gives you 105 total. Someone like myself with recidency only would need to score a perfect score (which is really doubtful) in order to get your score. Trust me bro so far you in really good shape.
    Last edited by Jukez; 05-22-2012 at 08:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukez View Post
    I have no idea how the test is going to be graded but 2nc and 9PCs PLUS 10 extra points would definitely put you on top of the list. Let's say from those 2 NC and 9 pcs you lose 5 points ( that's if some aren't changed or throwned out) that still gives you 105 total. Someone like myself with recidency only would need to score a perfect score (which is really doubtful) in order to get your score. Trust me bro so far you in really good shape.
    If you go by the 6019 exam, a score of 105 would of had you in line for the first and only class. I think the lowest score to be in that class was 103.8 or 103.1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HopefulFF View Post
    Prior to administering the exam it was given out to current FDNY FFs and they had to give their feedback on it. You're spot on about PSI and the reason they were chosen to create this exam.

    Do you know any statistics for PSI in relation to how many of their test Q's get protested & over turned? I wasn't able to find anything on this when I looked.
    I have not been able, either. I also looked around to see if there was any info on how they weighted things on the test. No luck. PSI keeps things pretty close to the chest, which I like.

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