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    Quote Originally Posted by bensonhurstlovesme View Post
    ah.
    your gonna be that guy. everywhere , every forum or comment area there is always THE GUY who corrects peoples spelling and punctuation. i cant believe your that guy
    It's "you're" in both cases.
    Now please STFU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/fede...entrance-exams



    Dunno if this was new or not . Didn't see it posted
    seems pretty fair to me.
    now lets get the ball rolling and hiring starting.

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    how could anybody be comfortable with racial quota hiring... I rather battle fires with somebody qualified

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcasler View Post
    how could anybody be comfortable with racial quota hiring... I rather battle fires with somebody qualified
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view

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    This person contradicts himself every page.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view

    I see your point but some people will still make it through academy who are taking some one else's earned spot. If pressure is put on the dept to start pushing them through or not, there is some one who got a job or even an opportunity that belonged to another due to skin color.


    What's up with that article? are quotas still on the table? How is the appeals process looking.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-18-2012 at 07:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromQueens View Post
    I have a question about the residency points and if anyone has heard anything. I currently live in Queens and I have all the paperwork ready to prove I did a year before the filing date, took care of it the week the exam notice came out. My question is, what if I moved out of the city would I still get the points ? The exam notice stated you have to prove residency a year prior to the filing date, which I can. But what if they come back with, "you aren't living in the city anymore"? Has anyone spoke to DCAS about this or is in a similar situation ? I found a really nice apartment in Long Beach and I like it a lot.
    i had almost a exact dilemma and decided to renew my lease in bayridge for another year in may, just beacause eventhough iam sure your still eligible for the points i didnt want to go through the hassle of changing my adress with dcas and possibly missing an important piece of mail. if you really like the place go for it, but long beach will be there next year. also in the back of my mind i thought what if the worst happens and we have to test again. by moving to long beach i would miss the 5 points since the dates were so far back from the time the test was given. i luckily managed to change my adress just in time . my very first bank statement in brooklyn is june15- july 15 2010. thank god.

    long story short, yes iam sure you will get the points, but maybe play it safe in queens for another year

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I see your point but some people will still make it through academy who are taking some one else's earned spot. If pressure is put on the dept to start pushing them through or not, there is some one who got a job or even an opportunity that belonged to another due to skin color.


    What's up with that article? are quotas still on the table? How is the appeals process looking.
    From what the article says they are going with quota hiring . As per the ruling on July 5

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    Yeah, I guess this is why we are seeing so much of this lately. http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/10/fdny.pdf

    He ruled on July 5th that he wants race based hiring along with all the back pay and retroactive seniority for people up to 43 years old. This needs to be bigger news.

    Any legal buffs have an idea as to whether the city can ignore this until the appeal? Or even when the appeal process is supposed to wrap up? I'm pretty sure the "fairness hearing" in Sept will be moot if the appeal is successful before then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view
    I understand your point, but guys that are getting TO the academy over guys that performed better yet aren't going because of their skin tone isn't right. I understand you're saying people who graduate the academy deserve the job, which you're right on. But the fact those people got to the academy isn't right. There's only a certain # of list spots they're going to call off the list so if people are being given a chance they didn't deserve is the ultimate crime in this situation. It's the exact reason why quota hiring isn't right for any job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by myles8683 View Post
    i had almost a exact dilemma and decided to renew my lease in bayridge for another year in may, just beacause eventhough iam sure your still eligible for the points i didnt want to go through the hassle of changing my adress with dcas and possibly missing an important piece of mail. if you really like the place go for it, but long beach will be there next year. also in the back of my mind i thought what if the worst happens and we have to test again. by moving to long beach i would miss the 5 points since the dates were so far back from the time the test was given. i luckily managed to change my adress just in time . my very first bank statement in brooklyn is june15- july 15 2010. thank god.

    long story short, yes iam sure you will get the points, but maybe play it safe in queens for another year
    Exactly, it's better to be safe than sorry. I lost out on residency points this time around because I moved to Rockland after the 2007 test...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view
    You did not "earn" nor "deserve" the job if you got it based on a quota hiring.

    Scores, merit and rank-order hiring. Plain, simple and fair.
    It's the way it's been done. It's the way it should be.
    Last edited by ffbam24; 07-18-2012 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromQueens View Post
    I have a question about the residency points and if anyone has heard anything. I currently live in Queens and I have all the paperwork ready to prove I did a year before the filing date, took care of it the week the exam notice came out. My question is, what if I moved out of the city would I still get the points ? The exam notice stated you have to prove residency a year prior to the filing date, which I can. But what if they come back with, "you aren't living in the city anymore"? Has anyone spoke to DCAS about this or is in a similar situation ? I found a really nice apartment in Long Beach and I like it a lot.
    I think you're fine. The NOE outlined the exact dates that were applicable in order to receive the points.
    DCAS has nothing to do with it, they just administer the test. I recommend calling the Investigations Unit at 9MT with your question to clarify. It was my BI who actually called me and verified my address back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    Yeah, I guess this is why we are seeing so much of this lately. http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/10/fdny.pdf

    He ruled on July 5th that he wants race based hiring along with all the back pay and retroactive seniority for people up to 43 years old. This needs to be bigger news.

    Any legal buffs have an idea as to whether the city can ignore this until the appeal? Or even when the appeal process is supposed to wrap up? I'm pretty sure the "fairness hearing" in Sept will be moot if the appeal is successful before then.
    I think that is exactly what is going on. One thing I can say about hizzoner is that he has not backed down from his stance against the quotas. It's the one thing we at the firehouse actually applaud him for.
    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    From what the article says they are going with quota hiring . As per the ruling on July 5
    Quotas are NOT in effect, therefore we are currently NOT hiring.

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    Is there a time frame when the outcome of the appeal is supposed to be determined?

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    Ummm. This news isn't surprising. We knew about this the day he can Elle's our class August 2010....


    Sooooooo. Do u guys wanna keep waiting or do you want to rally/protest to get our voices heard



    This obviously should be on every front page newspaper in America. But sadly it's not

    Let's get the the fckin word out now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    You did not "earn" nor "deserve" the job if you got it based on a quota hiring.

    Scores, merit and rank-order hiring. Plain, simple and fair.
    It's the way it's been done. It's the way it should be.
    Don't get it twisted around. All jobs everywhere have some type of discrimination or preference to a certain type of race. That's a fact . It has not always been about merit that's a fact also . Don't ignore the overall theme here I think everyone needs to realize that overall there has been unfairness on both sides . Whatever they decide to do is the best course of action both parties could come to an agreement on. I wanna be a firefighter I love the idea off being on a team and helping people . If I don't get in I'm a big boy honestly the whole crying foul stuff going on with the fdny is crazy . We need to get back to basics . If u get on u get on if u don't u don't . Let's get some rankings in August hopefully so we can adjust our lives accordingly .
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view
    However the problem is ICNYC, the academy should not be where we find out if you're a fraud; it should be the process on the way. The same it is for most private businesses, police departments, and yes fire as well. We also cannot forget that with the judge being a tyrant and looking over every aspect of hire and fire, the Rock as well as the FDNY will be at his mercy even if they have both legitimate and honest reasons for termination that would be held to every firefighter regardless of race, religion, or gender.

    What makes one in equal in American terms is the opportunity to reach your dreams and public service is the closest to this utopian idea. Remember besides other city agencies, numerous jobs across the country have both heavy race and gender inequality in terms of workers, but they themselves are able to escape the rigors of the law by numerous loopholes or by the fact that those jobs are more numerous across the country allowing a "greater chance." A career I once considered is one of the worst with American airline pilots being at over 94% white and 97% male. (per ALPA)

    Also remember that what one side does wrong, if the other does the same or even worse no lesson was learned, no progress made. Two wrongs don't make a right and as such this whole process will ruin one of the best departments out there. For what?

    If we are to make progress we must "not judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the contents of his character." If we are to have the best of anything we must be judged by score, merit, and ability rather then what we circle on the census.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    Don't get it twisted around. All jobs everywhere have some type of discrimination or preference to a certain type of race. That's a fact . It has not always been about merit that's a fact also . Don't ignore the overall theme here I think everyone needs to realize that overall there has been unfairness on both sides . Whatever they decide to do is the best course of action both parties could come to an agreement on. I wanna be a firefighter I love the idea off being on a team and helping people . If I don't get in I'm a big boy honestly the whole crying foul stuff going on with the fdny is crazy . We need to get back to basics . If u get on u get on if u don't u don't . Let's get some rankings in August hopefully so we can adjust our lives accordingly .
    Twisted around?
    Back to basics?
    Yeah. And those basics are rank-order hiring.

    NOW. Cite your sources and give examples of all this "unfairness on both sides" you speak of.
    YOU DON'T DESERVE THE JOB IF YOU ARE RELYING ON A QUOTA.
    YOU SEEM TO BE EXPECTING IT. WANTING IT TO HAPPEN.
    And if it does, you're just going to shrug your shoulders and say, "Meh, at least i'm in."
    This job is steeped in tradition from the get-go. You do not and will not understand it until you are on the job, and that's with a big IF you get on the job.

    Instituting quotas will be a first step into the deconstruction of this great department.

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    All vets on the list I urge you to write a letter the the mayors office of veteran affairs explaining your concern. I wrote one and received an email in the same day. All it said was that they are aware of the situation blah blah blah. But the more NYC vets and out of city vets who do this the better it is. Google " mayors office of veterans affairs" and hit contact us. You can only type 150 words so be direct and respectful. Pretend your emailing an O-9
    Last edited by myles8683; 07-18-2012 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Twisted around?
    Back to basics?
    Yeah. And those basics are rank-order hiring.

    NOW. Cite your sources and give examples of all this "unfairness on both sides" you speak of.
    YOU DON'T DESERVE THE JOB IF YOU ARE RELYING ON A QUOTA.
    YOU SEEM TO BE EXPECTING IT. WANTING IT TO HAPPEN.
    And if it does, you're just going to shrug your shoulders and say, "Meh, at least i'm in."
    This job is steeped in tradition from the get-go. You do not and will not understand it until you are on the job, and that's with a big IF you get on the job.

    Instituting quotas will be a first step into the deconstruction of this great department.
    First I have not once on this forum said what I want to happen. Second I have said and an saying that I expect quotas to be the way they will hire history has shown ie affirmative action . I'm not saying its right or wrong , I'm saying that when things like this happen quotas, affirmative action based acceptance into schools , or programs is usually what happens. History is proof enough. Don't attack me with ur opinion . I'm not putting my feelings on here bitching I'm just trying make sense of it all and the direction it's moving in . So I can adjust my life accordingly . So don't be a dick when u see a post that u gets u worked up so much u write bull**** just to get a bunch of likes. I want to kno the direction this thing is taking I'm not into debating right or wrong
    Just like other guys on here I'm not into that little kid crying **** . So leave that attacking bs for someone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse View Post
    However the problem is ICNYC, the academy should not be where we find out if you're a fraud; it should be the process on the way. The same it is for most private businesses, police departments, and yes fire as well. We also cannot forget that with the judge being a tyrant and looking over every aspect of hire and fire, the Rock as well as the FDNY will be at his mercy even if they have both legitimate and honest reasons for termination that would be held to every firefighter regardless of race, religion, or gender.

    What makes one in equal in American terms is the opportunity to reach your dreams and public service is the closest to this utopian idea. Remember besides other city agencies, numerous jobs across the country have both heavy race and gender inequality in terms of workers, but they themselves are able to escape the rigors of the law by numerous loopholes or by the fact that those jobs are more numerous across the country allowing a "greater chance." A career I once considered is one of the worst with American airline pilots being at over 94% white and 97% male. (per ALPA)

    Also remember that what one side does wrong, if the other does the same or even worse no lesson was learned, no progress made. Two wrongs don't make a right and as such this whole process will ruin one of the best departments out there. For what?

    If we are to make progress we must "not judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the contents of his character." If we are to have the best of anything we must be judged by score, merit, and ability rather then what we circle on the census.
    I get what ur saying dj but nobody wants to be the bigger man. Biting the bullet leaves a bad taste in ur mouth so that's why it's always an eye for an eye. I hate it but this is the reason why their will always be prejudice and racism because nobody ever wants to let go. I'm all for protesting and everything do what u can it's everyones right to their opinion. I want the job and I hope that if my house is burning the fireman that gets me , my wife and kid is wanted the job as bad as you and me . Hoping for the best is what I boils down to

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    I get what ur saying dj but nobody wants to be the bigger man. Biting the bullet leaves a bad taste in ur mouth so that's why it's always an eye for an eye. I hate it but this is the reason why their will always be prejudice and racism because nobody ever wants to let go. I'm all for protesting and everything do what u can it's everyones right to their opinion. I want the job and I hope that if my house is burning the fireman that gets me , my wife and kid is wanted the job as bad as you and me . Hoping for the best is what I boils down to
    Some of the greatest leaders in history never had that view point and they instituted the most change in their respective society. Ghandi, MLK, Mandela, the list goes on and on and these men both by their enemies and friends are well-respected and image defining. You write about history but history shows that when man cares for other man the results, the society, and the people change and create a world directed for prosperity and peace. History has showed from numerous departments in numerous government fields across the country that this idea of preference destroys and ruins nearly all of them.

    Take a look at WMATA or before that LAPD where certain places had to hire by race and look at the destruction it caused by not having the best man but the best stat. This argument about everyone does it so I do too is wrong and causes more bad then good, it harkens back to the famous Jim Crow laws where even if you did care, yo didn't care to change it.

    This is not a talking to or yelling at but more of a correction that this thread is populated by those who want fair hire regardless of race, religion, or gender. That all candidates want to be treated fairly through the process and all will want other candidates to have the same thing, an equal chance.

    As a candidate to a candidate talk leave the quotas and all that out of here and focus on you, what you saw on the protest, and what can you do to train for the next step. Keep an eye on the judges' rulings and remember that change starts with one not many. Don't fall into the it's ok if it's me category either, if I'm hired to fill a quota I will fight every tooth and nail I have not to see this happen. Take this from a guy who wants all to be hired fairly and equally and wrote a paper on how to recruit people into public safety and away from the police end of it. I would love to see you at a meeting hopefully in September, best of luck.

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    Default brooklyn or bust

    i also wanted to ask a question because i am confused.
    Anyone can answer even the grammar teacher.
    In order to make the fdny Equal, THEY'RE gonna start the Black and mexican probies with more then the whites.
    so if i am right here, the whites will make less then the minorites?
    seems pretty fair to me

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    From what I read of that article, the quota is ***theoretically*** only going to be in effect for the first 300ish minorities hired to make up for the "discrimination" of the two tests prior to 6019. I agree with most of the guys on here - the quota is completely wrong and we should do what we can to stand against it - but did anyone else read the article the same way? As infuriating as it is, at least it doesn't sound (at this point) that its going to be in effect indefinitely.

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