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Thread: FDNY Exam 2000

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkjets75 View Post
    Just read this in the Post: "Garufis rejected a broader request from the city to open the doors for 24 hours to everyone who wants to apply to the FDNY, saying that without accompanying recruitment efforts it might actually sabotage the goal of expanding minority ranks in a fire department that's overwhelmingly white."

    Haha, how many times do you think Garufis has used the phrase "overwhelmingly white" in the past decade?

    And yeah, I'm thinking at least 20,000 of the people taking this test dont show up or get below a 70 (fail). The Idea of getting proof of unemployment and spending 5 hours of your day visiting DCAS to avoid $30 for a test fee seems like an insane waste of time to me. Two months to get 30 bucks together and you show up on the last possible day to claim unemployment? Yeah, alot of these people arent in this for the long haul.

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    so can i move back to long beach now? ive been in brooklyn for 2 years and will stay i mean i like it but my lease is up next march and wouldnt mind a summer in lb. what do u guys think? the noe says 1 year from july 31,2010-august 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by myles8683 View Post
    so can i move back to long beach now? ive been in brooklyn for 2 years and will stay i mean i like it but my lease is up next march and wouldnt mind a summer in lb. what do u guys think? the noe says 1 year from july 31,2010-august 2011
    Stay, get the residency points and then move to Long Beach. Also join their VFD as they are one of only two LI departments that are paid (one Engine company is) so you never know who you'll meet or if it opens a backdoor for you.

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    Has anybody heard anything else about the prep classes for the written that the city will be giving? I haven't been able to find anything about it.
    Exam 2000
    Score: 99
    List #:4xxx

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    I don't think they would be having those prep classes this time around. I think most of it would be up to the individual, and the computer based tutorial that would be released in November. Don't take my word for it, but there is no mention of it at all anywhere on their website or the NOE.

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    I'm actually more interested to know how they will be scoring the written with the physical. The way they are setting this whole thing up is really shady man. For 6019 we knew how your list # was being established and what the physical exam would be. All I know at this point is that I'll be sitting in front of a computer at some point between Jan and Feb.

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    Haven't heard anything on the topic of the physical agility.
    IMO I don't see them straying away from the relatively lawsuit free CPAT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Haven't heard anything on the topic of the physical agility.
    IMO I don't see them straying away from the relatively lawsuit free CPAT.
    Especially seeing what happened to Chicago FD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vekdoggs75 View Post
    I'm actually more interested to know how they will be scoring the written with the physical. The way they are setting this whole thing up is really shady man. For 6019 we knew how your list # was being established and what the physical exam would be. All I know at this point is that I'll be sitting in front of a computer at some point between Jan and Feb.
    More proof of this just being a numbers game. Cassano ( FDNY commissioner) knew he had to achieve specific quotas. I'd be interested to see how much different things Would be without the vulcan society lawsuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse View Post
    Especially seeing what happened to Chicago FD.
    what happened? im not familiar with their situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Haven't heard anything on the topic of the physical agility.
    IMO I don't see them straying away from the relatively lawsuit free CPAT.
    why is that lawsuit free? how many fire depts in the USA have been using the CPAT?

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    Quote Originally Posted by QCFRANKC View Post
    what happened? im not familiar with their situation?
    Woman sued the CFD stating that their physical (not CPAT) objectified women.

    Article from Huffington Post

    Again, the CPAT basically saves most FDs from lawsuits which is the reason why it was conceived. Even Gardifus knows this which is why he won't throw it out.

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    Default Cpat

    ok i found this info.....


    Almost every Fire Dept in the country uses a physical abilities test known as the Candidate Physical Abilities Test (CPAT). The CPAT is approved and sanctioned by the IAFF (union), IAFC (Fire Chiefs org) and US Dept of Justice, and EEOC. It's a lawsuit proof test. However, the pass rates among females who take it is very low.

    Of course, the City of Chicago refuses to use this CPAT, and instead brought in yet another connected consultant to develope their own version which would ensure a high pass rate for females.

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    Default FDNY plans to use CPAT

    My sources tell me that the FDNY plans on using CPAT (safest bet lawsuit wise). I've established my FDNY / CPAT Prep school to take the candidate from Stepmill to Academy Graduation.

    CPAT COURSE CURRICULUM: http://www.kbmike.com/2011/08/fdny-c...urriculum.html

    LATEST ARTICLE / TIP: http://www.kbmike.com/2011/09/pulling-ceilings.html

    FOLLOW US ON FACE BOOK: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FDNY-C...273373?sk=wall

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeStefano View Post
    My sources tell me that the FDNY plans on using CPAT (safest bet lawsuit wise). I've established my FDNY / CPAT Prep school to take the candidate from Stepmill to Academy Graduation.

    CPAT COURSE CURRICULUM: http://www.kbmike.com/2011/08/fdny-c...urriculum.html

    LATEST ARTICLE / TIP: http://www.kbmike.com/2011/09/pulling-ceilings.html

    FOLLOW US ON FACE BOOK: http://www.facebook.com/pages/FDNY-C...273373?sk=wall
    I heard good things about this

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    Post Another workout book...

    http://www.amazon.com/Get-Firefighte.../dp/1569756260

    This book also has a world of information in it about getting ready for the CPAT, healthy eating, and is given as a class at New Jersey City University by the author. If you want more information about the book or the class PM me.

    Its a great book with a ton of information

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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    http://www.amazon.com/Get-Firefighte.../dp/1569756260

    This book also has a world of information in it about getting ready for the CPAT, healthy eating, and is given as a class at New Jersey City University by the author. If you want more information about the book or the class PM me.

    Its a great book with a ton of information

    Alright. I am not in any way shape or form insinuating that this book or class are not great resources. In fact I will research it further and see what's up for sure.

    However that cover made me think I clicked to a gay romantic novel...

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    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 09-29-2011 at 07:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post


    I dunno if you have an online account for "the chief", but if you do could you copy/paste the entire article? You can't access their articles without an account.

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    There are some striking similarities between Paul Washington and Paul Mannix despite their being polar opposites in the Fire Department exam-discrimination case playing out in Federal Court in Brooklyn: Captain Washington, at 49, is a year older than Deputy Chief Mannix, they each played on the department’s football team, and both have been firefighters for 23 years and see the job as a pathway to a better life for themselves and their families.
    In virtually all other respects, the differences in perception between the two men are as stark as black and white, and their views are very much shaped—if not colored—by race.
    Mr. Mannix maintains that the FDNY Vulcan Society of black firefighters is trying to use the court system to take merit out of the hiring process by falsely claiming that the past three exams for Firefighter have been tainted by racism. Mr. Washington, a former president of the Vulcans, contends that top FDNY officials have used the civil-service testing process as cover for continued resistance to meaningful integration of the firefighting ranks, and says that it is only because of the pressure his group has exerted in both the courts and the media that significant change may be ushered in by a new exam to be given early next year.
    Pouring Gasoline on the Bonfire
    Chief Mannix’s advocacy—which he says resulted in a visit from Federal Marshals two years ago after one too many calls to the chambers of U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis asking that he be allowed to testify in the case—has sometimes made his superiors in the Fire Department cringe. It is not that his sentiments are terribly different from the legal arguments mustered by city lawyers in the case. Nor are they at odds with Mayor Bloomberg rejecting five possible solutions proposed by Judge Garaufis last year in the wake of his finding that the 1999 and 2002 exams were discriminatory and that the 2007 test, while not as flawed, should be disallowed because it had a disparate impact on minority candidates. Rather, top officials are concerned that Mr. Mannix’s blunt statements about the issues involved throw gasoline onto the bonfire created by the case.
    He in turn contends that his tough words are a necessary corrective for what he claims are outlandish charges by the Vulcans that city officials have allowed to go unchallenged, characterizing their positions as “strident advocacy on one side and moral cowardice on the other.”
    During a lengthy interview last week, Chief Mannix, asked whether there had been racism in the past in the Fire Department, replied, “Absolutely. I don’t deny that there was racism; I don’t deny that there is racism now. But the Fire Department has worked to integrate the job. The City of New York has bent over backwards to bring in blacks, and women, too, in the Fire Department.”
    Earlier in the day, Captain Washington, sitting in the Vulcans’ headquarters in Brooklyn’s Crown Heights section, said that while overt racism within the FDNY had “receded” over the past two decades, “It’s the institutional racism that still holds blacks back, in this country and on this job.” Meaningful efforts by the FDNY to recruit black candidates for the job, he said, did not begin until prior to the 2007 exam, after the Vulcans had convinced the U.S. Justice Department to file a civil-rights case against the city. The fact that the Fire Department has bragged about how much more extensive its recruitment efforts have been for the upcoming exam than for the one four years ago, he said, indicates that even that earlier effort rated no more than a “6” on a scale of 1 to 10.
    “Before that,” he said, “it was a 1 or 2; it was pitiful.”
    Judge Gets Emotionally Involved
    Adding to the charged emotions in the case has been Judge Garaufis’s conduct. He has on more than one occasion berated city lawyers, sometimes for merely being persistent in cross-examining witnesses. He briefly appointed former Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau as the Special Master to work out solutions in the case at a time when Mr. Morgenthau and the Mayor were embroiled in a nasty public feud over an unrelated matter. And his finding of disparate impact concerning the 2007 exam even though it produced record numbers of minority candidates who passed with scores high enough to make their appointments likely struck more than a few outside observers as an overreach that would roil the waters rather than calming them.
    One veteran employment lawyer, speaking conditioned on anonymity, said that among many of his colleagues, “There’s a sense that [Judge Garaufis’s] emotions may have clouded his judgment. He’s gone pretty far out there—he’s taken some pretty dramatic steps that are beyond what most District Judges would take.
    “But,” he continued, “on its face the numbers [of black firefighters and, to a lesser extent, Latinos] are so small, and when you bootstrap in and see the history, Garaufis clearly sees a problem. The conflict with civil service and merit lies when you have this incredible racial disparity.”
    He was referring to the fact that just 3 percent of the firefighting force is black—the same percentage as before a 1973 court ruling that imposed a quota hiring system that gave hiring preference to black and Latino candidates and for a while boosted black representation as high as 8 percent.
    Chief Mannix, as well as some ranking FDNY officials who are more discreet in their public comments, has noted the steady progress in recent years of Latinos into the firefighting ranks (they now constitute more than 8 percent of the job) as evidence that the tests have not been the problem. But it’s also true that there have been far fewer racially tinged blow-ups between white and Latino firefighters over the years, with one notable exception involving a Uniformed Firefighters Association official nearly two decades ago firing off a memo referring to then-Fire Commissioner Carlos Rivera as “Chico.”
    Shocked by Racist Banter
    Captain Washington last week recalled an incident that occurred at about the same time that was also a centerpiece of his testimony earlier this summer before Judge Garaufis. He had been detailed to a Brooklyn firehouse, and “I guess they forgot I was there—I’m laying on the couch and I hear them saying [to another firefighter], ‘You have to do that: you’re the ****** tonight.’’’
    The reply from the firefighter being ordered to perform a chore was, “No, I was the ****** last week.”
    Mr. Washington shook his head ruefully and said, “That’s my so-called brothers talking that way.”
    Mr. Mannix argued that this sort of racism was buried deep in the uglier back pages of the FDNY. “If you prove yourself [as a capable firefighter], and there is one racist *******, everybody in the firehouse is going to come down on him,” he said. “It’s not Mississippi 1964.”
    The Bed Phobia
    He expressed surprise when I told him of something I’d heard about from a young Firefighter in the mid-1980s. A black Firefighter had been detailed to his company for a night tour, and after he left, one of the other company members declared that he would not sleep in the bed that firefighter had occupied. His declaration was less-astonishing to the young Firefighter than the response within the company: no one ridiculed him for expressing that sentiment. He did not speak up, he said, for the same reason Mr. Washington had not gone outside the firehouse with a complaint about the “******” banter in his presence: he didn’t want to be ostracized.
    In late 1993, a friend who was a firefighter suggested we give two extra tickets we had to a big Yankee game to a couple of firefighters he knew casually. They seemed like nice, sociable guys, up to the point in the eighth inning when a Yankee rally was snuffed out when one of their outfielders, Dion James, was thrown out at third base. Amid the murmurs of disappointment from the crowd, one of the firefighters loudly explained it to his colleague: “A ****** that can’t run.”
    Again, the most-stunning thing wasn’t the declaration itself, or the mentality that would decide that a missed opportunity in a baseball game was cause for rolling out the N word; it was the volume at which he uttered it, as if oblivious to the fact that he sounded like a major-league moron.
    In his 2002 book, “Strong of Heart,” former Uniformed Firefighters Association President and Fire Commissioner Tom Von Essen described the department when he entered it in 1970 as “rather insular...The [firehouse] kitchen was not the place to hear a wide range of opinions or experiences.”
    Racism or Resentment?
    Mr. Washington, who came on the job 18 years later, suggested not much had changed in the intervening years. He described the resulting treatment of those perceived as outsiders this way: “Every black firefighter can tell you of discrimination that they suffered. If you’re black coming into a virtually all-white situation, you know there’s gonna be racism.”
    Mr. Mannix sees the tensions that have existed between black and white firefighters differently. “A lot of times what’s mistaken as racism is really resentment,” he said. He wasn’t around during the quota years of the 1970s, but his experiences in the Police Department a decade later in dealing with the impact of another quota have forged his determination to fight what he sees as a potential repeat in the Fire Department. It has marked him just as much as Captain Washington’s encounters with racism in his early years in the department seared him, as if proving the wisdom of the novelist who wrote so thoughtfully about race in Mississippi, William Faulkner: “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.”
    Talking about the event that led him to depart from the footsteps of his father, who spent 25 years in the NYPD and retired as a Sergeant, Mr. Mannix said, “I got screwed on the cops with the 1983 Sergeants’ test,” which led to a court-ordered promotion quota for minorities. “I had to be supervised by inept, incompetent, really dangerous Sergeants who had failed the test.” Just as importantly, from a career standpoint, the litigation delayed the holding of the first Sergeant exam that he would have been eligible to take long enough that, when the Fire Department called his number on the Firefighter list, he switched agencies rather than taking the promotion test.
    Emergency Response Dust-Up
    The year both he and Mr. Washington joined the Fire Department, 1988, was also when Mayor Ed Koch overruled the recommendation of his First Deputy Mayor that the FDNY be given primary responsibility for all non-police emergency situations and instead gave that designation to the NYPD. He was pressured to do so by Police Commissioner Ben Ward, and the hard feelings over the decision led to a near-fistfight at City Hall between Mr. Ward and Fire Commissioner Joe Bruno.
    Walking through City Hall Plaza afterward, I encountered a mid-level UFA official who punctuated his anger at Mr. Ward’s big-footing by referring to him as “that ape.” I was stunned—I didn’t think the guy was a racist, but it seemed more than a bit odd that with all the choice nouns available to express his frustration, he chose one that was often used as a racial epithet.
    What was also interesting was how his reaction contrasted with that of fire union officials six years ago when Mayor Bloomberg made a similar questionable decision on emergency-response protocol under urging from Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. They weren’t happy, but they grudgingly complimented Mr. Kelly for using his clout on behalf of his agency, saying they wished Fire Commissioner Nick Scoppetta stood up for the FDNY that forcefully.
    And in contrast to that UFA official back in 1988, their greatest anger was reserved for the Mayor, the guy who actually made the decision. When Mr. Koch chose the NYPD, it was believed that racial politics had played a role in him siding with his most-prominent black agency head. Operationally, though, it raised questions as to why he would countermand his highly respected First Deputy Mayor, Stanley Brezenoff, and risk his disenchantment.
    Men Behaving Badly
    It seemed at least a possibility that Mr. Koch was influenced by a series of embarrassing episodes involving male firefighters’ harassment of the women who had entered the uniformed ranks in 1982, culminating in an incident in 1986 in which a black female Firefighter was cut by a knife during a dispute with a white Firefighter who later admitted he had consumed six or seven beers prior to the scuffle. The physical tussle wasn’t even the worst of it: the female Firefighter told reporters that the previous harassment she had experienced included firefighters urinating in the shower set aside for her. And no one stepped forward to accuse her of lying about that.
    No one other than the Firefighter with whom she had the altercation was disciplined, and when he was suspended for six months and fined $15,000, the UFA gave him a job in its offices and one angry firefighter told me that a collection would be taken up to pay off his fine. Male firefighters contended that new men in their companies were subjected to hazing that was as bad or worse than what the female Firefighter had endured, but also acknowledged that resentment of the women remained strong because they had entered the job four years earlier by passing a special physical exam after a Federal Judge found the regular one administered in 1978 had discriminated against them and was not job-related.
    In theory, all this embarrassing publicity should not have had any impact on Mr. Koch’s decision on emergency-response protocol, any more than Judge Garaufis should allow himself to be swayed as to the merits of the last Firefighter test or the FDNY’s efforts to attract a more racially balanced force. But Mayors and Judges, just like firefighters, are human enough to react viscerally to what they perceive as wrong. And in the legal system, a series of cases involving firefighters has raised issues about how much impact perceptions of a hostile work environment has had in limiting the number of blacks who have sought the job in the past.
    The ‘Black to the Future’ Fiasco
    That issue was front-and-center in the case that grew out of a 1998 Labor Day Parade in Broad Channel, Queens that included a float entitled “Black to the Future” that envisioned the heavily white neighborhood suddenly “going black.” Among the participants were a white cop, Joseph Locurto, and two Firefighters, Robert Steiner and Jonathan Walters, who wore blackface. The incident that elevated the float from garden-variety stupidity into a full-blown disgrace occurred when Mr. Walters decided to re-enact the dragging death of a black man in Texas at the hands of three white assailants.
    The three men were immediately suspended, and Mayor Rudy Giuliani announced that they would not be returning to work. Mr. Von Essen would later write in his autobiography, “I didn’t think they were evil, just stupid.”
    The three men filed a Federal lawsuit claiming that their free-speech rights had been violated. Mr. Von Essen testified that he shared Mr. Giuliani’s concern that their behavior would discourage minorities from seeking to become Firefighters, noting that even before that, “We just had a horrible record in attracting minorities to what I think is a great job.”
    When Firefighter Steiner’s lawyer asked him whether any firefighters had previously been fired for racism, Mr. Von Essen replied, “Unfortunately, no. I think a lot of people should’ve been fired for making racial remarks.”
    Appeals Court Upheld Firings
    U.S. District Judge John Sprizzo in 2003 ruled in favor of the two Firefighters and the cop, noting that neither the NYPD nor the FDNY had fired uniformed personnel for racist remarks before that, even though some employees had made statements that were more incendiary. He ordered that they be paid damages and reinstated to their jobs. His ruling was overturned, however, in 2006 in the U.S. Court of Appeals, which concluded that the city’s “interest in maintaining a relationship of trust between the police and fire departments and the communities they serve outweighed the plaintiffs’ [free-speech] interests in this case...The First Amendment does not require a government employer to sit idly by while its employees insult those they are hired to serve and protect.”
    So the firings stood. It became a bit harder to unring the bell of a firefighter believing that it was an act of satire to mock a modern-day lynching, however. So that became one more potential deterrent to some young blacks who might otherwise have considered a career with the department.
    When Chief Mannix was asked whether, having acknowledged past racism in the department, he believed the FDNY had dealt with such incidents strongly enough to send a message to all parties that it would not be tolerated, he sidestepped the question, talking instead about what he believes was a false claim by Firefighter Lanaird Grainger six years ago that somebody had placed a noose by his firehouse locker. The question was repeated; again, Mr. Mannix, a man who tries to root his controversial arguments in fact, did not directly answer it.
    Noting that he had accused Mr. Grainger of concocting the noose story shortly after the charge was made, he said the reason he had faced no disciplinary action was because FDNY higher-ups also had their doubts the claim was true, notwithstanding a finding by the department’s then-head of Equal Employment Opportunity supporting Mr. Grainger.
    ‘He Should Be Charged’
    “If I was wrong about a noose, they’d have my head on a stake,” Mr. Mannix said. “My head is not on a stake. If I really thought it happened, I’d want guys fired. But if a false complaint is made, we want charges to be preferred. This is career-threatening stuff.”
    Another incident that came up before Judge Garaufis involved a Brooklyn Firefighter donning a Ku Klux Klan-type hood in what was said to be an attempt to kid a black colleague out of his anger at being addressed with a racial epithet by a retired firefighter during two calls to the firehouse. The black firefighter knew he was being teased and took a picture of the firefighter in the hood, but when he showed the photo to Lieut. Kevin Washington, Paul’s older brother, the Lieutenant felt obligated to report the incident, and the white Firefighter wound up being disciplined even though the target of his joke made clear he didn’t want to bring charges.
    “The Klan hood was hard-edged humor, but it was humor,” Chief Mannix said. “Is it in poor taste? Absolutely. But it made the black firefighter laugh. When you work with someone, you get a feel for what they can do.”
    It’s notable, however, that the reaction of those in the company was to try to get the black firefighter to lighten up, rather than to call the retired firefighter to tell him he had come off like a jerk addressing the firefighter in what by the second phone call he had to have realized was not an endearing way.
    ‘What About the White Guys?’
    During his trial testimony, Paul Washington also cited an incident a few weeks after 9/11 in which a flyer posted on the bulletin board at Ladder Co. 131 in Red Hook announcing a memorial service for the 12 black firefighters who had died at the World Trade Center was defaced by a white firefighter who wrote across it, “What about the white guys?”
    Captain Washington said the separate service was no different from those held by some fire battalions and individual companies honoring the firefighters they lost in addition to the larger remembrances held at the Trade Center site and the Firemen’s Memorial on Riverside Drive.
    “Black firefighters in this country are definitely a separate group,” he said. “To pretend that blacks aren’t a separate, distinct and oppressed group in this country is just silly. That’s why, along with the 343, we honored the 12 black ones, and we don’t make any apologies for it.”
    Mr. Mannix argues that the Vulcans are trying to minimize use of a civil-service system that has been the equalizer over the years for every city ethnic group and remains the fairest measure of candidates’ qualifications. Referring to the current head of the Vulcans, he said, “It was put in place, as I told John Coombs, to get away from cronyism and racism and patronage.”
    ‘Test Like the Military’
    Unlike Mr. Coombs, who has called for doing away with the written test altogether, Captain Washington says he believes the test has value but not to the point that the department should continue using strict rank-order scores in selecting candidates. He would understand that policy, he said, “If the guy on the test who got a 98 is a better firefighter than the guy who got an 88. But there is no relation between your score and your ability to be a firefighter. We want a test just like the military does where they set a minimum standard you have to reach where they know they can train you.”
    '98' Guy More Motivated
    Chief Mannix, not surprisingly, disagreed. “There are no ironclad guarantees,” he said, “but I’m putting my money on the guy who got 98 against a guy who got 75 or 80. It’s also an indication of the motivation and commitment of the guys taking the exam.”
    Falling somewhere in between those two arguments is Pete Hayden, the former FDNY Chief of Department who became a hero to uniformed firefighters six years ago by testifying at the City Council that the plan to give the NYPD primary emergency responsibility would lead to “a compromise of safety,” costing him any chance that the Mayor would keep him in the job long-term.
    In a 2008 interview, he said, “The test really does not prove you’ll be a successful or competent firefighter. It does show the motivation and the desire to succeed.”
    During that interview, Chief Hayden said that in minority communities, the Fire Department in the past “was not viewed as a welcoming organization,” in part because firehouse doors frequently remained closed even in warmer weather in the city’s poorest neighborhoods. Part of the problem, he added, was that there weren’t enough black firefighters to talk up the benefits of the job in their communities.
    Dad Didn’t Need to Push
    Captain Washington, who grew up on Staten Island, said his father, Cornelius, who was one of the first black Firefighters to work in that borough, never talked about the job. But, he added, he didn’t have to: “Our family had known only two conditions in this country: slavery and poverty. He brought us out of that. That was a big motivator [for both Paul and his brother Kevin]. He did not push us in that direction, but it’s no coincidence that we both became firefighters.”
    Chief Mannix argues that Mr. Washington is among the exemplars of what Augustus Beekman, who served nearly three years under Mayor Koch as the city’s second black Fire Commissioner, had said about hard work in the department being rewarded: “This is a great job, but don’t expect any handouts.” The Vulcans, he argued, were chipping away at that ethic, and the Fire Department was going too far in trying to ensure that minority candidates actually showed up to take the exam.
    “We’re literally taking people by the hand,” he said. “You’re giving people 12 reminder phone calls and a ride to the test. At what point does personal responsibility come into play?”
    He also objects to the five-point residency credit for those who live in the five boroughs, and opposed an attempt a few years ago to award another credit to those who had diplomas from city high schools. “We’re against all extra credits except for veterans’ points, because they’re earned,” Chief Mannix said.
    Got Residency Credit Tightened
    Captain Washington, on the other hand, noted the work the Vulcans did to ensure that the City Council tightened up the residency rule so that candidates must be living within the city for a year before the test filing begins in order to be eligible for the extra five points on the test. Until then, he said, in addition to the improper use of relatives’ home addresses to establish residency, there were cases in which candidates who lived in the suburbs had been able to delay moving to the city until they knew they had done well enough on the written exam to have a strong likelihood of being hired.
    Chief Mannix, who grew up in Whitestone, Queens but today lives in Suffolk County, believes the residency issue (firefighters are allowed to live in any of six surrounding state counties, from Long Island up to Putnam and Orange) should be less of a concern than the possibility of Judge Garaufis imposing hiring quotas. He said the Vulcans had increased the possibility of that happening by downplaying the physical dangers of the job during trial testimony by citing higher injury rates among other occupational groups.
    Sanitation Workers may suffer on-the-job mishaps more frequently, Mr. Mannix explained, but there is a significant caveat attached to that fact: “If a Sanitation Worker sees danger, he’s going to step away to avoid it. Firefighters are aware of the risk and the danger and they proceed anyway. We’re expected to keep moving into the danger.”
    And underqualified firefighters pose risks that extend beyond themselves and their colleagues, Mr. Mannix continued. “It’s the citizens who are going to pay a price if the quality and caliber of firefighters decreases,” he said. “The judge is concerned with scoring a civil rights victory, but it’s a victory that discriminates against people based on the color of their skin.”
    Warns of Quota Stigma
    He said his advocacy group, Merit Matters, has been contacted by black, Latino and women candidates as well as active firefighters who say they oppose what the Vulcans are trying to do, and predicted that members of those groups would be done a disservice if they came into the job under the stigma of being perceived as “quota hires.”
    Captain Washington brushed off such worries, saying, “I don’t think it matters how blacks come on the job—there’s gonna be resistance. Quota’s a funny word. Personally I have no problems with a quota when we say we’re gonna hire a specific number of blacks. But opponents of hiring more blacks know that’s a buzzword that’s gonna get people excited and increase resistance.”
    A question about the Mayor’s objection to five proposals by Judge Garaufis a year ago to settle the case produced a rare agreement between Mr. Mannix and Mr. Washington.
    “Mayors all over the country have done these same things,” Captain Washington said. Asked whether Mr. Bloomberg might be resisting because he genuinely believed it was the right thing to do, he responded, “Mayor Bloomberg is going to be the one guy who stands on principle, after what he did to get a third term? Gimme a break.”
    Told of his comment later, Chief Mannix said, “I can’t argue with that.”
    ‘Historic’ or Exclusionary?
    Speaking of the exam now being prepared under court supervision, Mr. Washington said, “I think this list that comes out in 2012 can be historic—a list that for the first time brings on large numbers of people of color. If we can repeat that two or three times, then in 10 or 12 years we can see a completely different Fire Department.”
    Different, Mr. Mannix countered, doesn’t mean better, or even fairer. “When you read the EEO laws,” he said, “they’re not supposed to harm any particular racial group.” But the looming solution from Judge Garaufis, he said, has already led city officials to the point where “they’re not going to recruit a group of people because they’re white. And now they aren’t going to hire a group of people because they’re white.”
    To him, it didn’t matter that the recruitment effort was directed strictly at nonwhites because attracting white candidates for Firefighter jobs has never been a problem. Talking about why he has become so consumed about this issue, Mr. Mannix said it went beyond the injustice he experienced with the quota ruling in the Police Department nearly 30 years ago, explaining, “Part of it is just my passion for the job and the Fire Department. You’re not supposed to keep anybody out unless they’re not qualified.”
    Mr. Washington feels just as strongly about that latter issue, and is convinced that whether the hostile working environment blacks have sometimes encountered was condoned from the top of the FDNY or simply filtered through the ranks, that is exactly what has occurred for too many years.
    It explains why the issue is in court. It remains to be seen whether the eventual solution can transcend the anger and mistrust that brought matters to this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner09 View Post
    I dunno if you have an online account for "the chief", but if you do could you copy/paste the entire article? You can't access their articles without an account.
    Was just waiting for some one to ask. Check out the merit matters site also, already a response to the article despite the chief not being on the stands yet.

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    Much obliged...

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    Default Next FDNY / CPAT Prep One-Day Class October 22

    Quote Originally Posted by vekdoggs75 View Post
    I heard good things about this
    Thank you, we're getting really positive feedback!

    A great way to find out for yourself is to attend our next one-day class on October 22

    next class: http://firefightersworkout.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeStefano View Post
    Thank you, we're getting really positive feedback!

    A great way to find out for yourself is to attend our next one-day class on October 22

    next class: http://firefightersworkout.com


    I am signed up for this session on the 22nd. Gonna check it out and decide whether or not I'll sign up for the 10 session course.
    From what I hear about these programs, I'm sure ill be writing a check that day.

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    Default FDNY / CPAT Prep Class Photo Album

    We took about a hundred great pics from our last one-day FDNY/CPAT Prep class and uploaded it to facebook (FDNY / CPAT Prep Page):

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/FDNY-C...273373?sk=wall

    OR

    http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3&l=134bdaa9b1

    For more on the next class, visit our website: http://firefightersworkout.com

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