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Thread: FDNY Exam 2000

  1. #2861
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    Is the point of the "no open microphone" so that Merit Matters and/ or any Minorities screwed on 6019 are sensored from showing up and actually speaking Facts?
    I would say so. The judge has to be able to censor who speaks so the facts don't get out! Very democratic process if I do say so myself.

    I wonder if people who don't get notices will be allowed to at least go to the event and listen?

    Lastly, I would love to hear how the judge is going to quantify in $$$ the "intangible benefits such as.... unique excitement, enjoyment of flexible scheduling." Laughter really is the only way to swallow these ridiculous pills!


  2. #2862
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    hes a judicial lex luthor
    Last edited by myles8683; 07-07-2012 at 10:25 AM.

  3. #2863
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    exam 2000's first graduation will be a very dark one

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    Quote Originally Posted by bensonhurstlovesme View Post
    exam 2000's first graduation will be a very dark one
    I hope that isn't racial, if it is keep that **** off of here

  5. #2865
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    I hope that isn't racial, if it is keep that **** off of here
    i meant grim. sad and grim

  6. #2866
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    BS!
    Take your post and your attitude elsewhere.
    The last thing the good candidates on any list needs, is to have your obvious racial comments attached to them.
    Last edited by ffbam24; 07-07-2012 at 08:09 PM.

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    Just got the hiring update email from Cassano. Looks like they are quite eager to hire ASAP and the only thing holding them back is Judge Dread.

    Nice to have an update in any event.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CableGuy516 View Post
    I would say so. The judge has to be able to censor who speaks so the facts don't get out! Very democratic process if I do say so myself.

    I wonder if people who don't get notices will be allowed to at least go to the event and listen?

    Lastly, I would love to hear how the judge is going to quantify in $$$ the "intangible benefits such as.... unique excitement, enjoyment of flexible scheduling." Laughter really is the only way to swallow these ridiculous pills!
    I emailed the writer of the article and told him/her I hope that was included because you think it's as big of a joke as I personally do. I don't think I've ever heard a more ludicrous group of words than those above. It's like a comedy show every time I read about this case. The writers of Lord of the Rings had a better head on their shoulders than this looney tune ****in judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    Just got the hiring update email from Cassano. Looks like they are quite eager to hire ASAP and the only thing holding them back is Judge Dread.

    Nice to have an update in any event.
    That's how I felt too. It's so frustrating to not have any idea when a decision will be made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    Just got the hiring update email from Cassano. Looks like they are quite eager to hire ASAP and the only thing holding them back is Judge Dread.

    Nice to have an update in any event.
    you think that email was written by Cassano?

    NOT LIKELY


    I replied to the mail with a rant about how the fdny and nyc civil service is going down the Chitter.
    the email came back UNKNOWNDOMAIN.
    I wish there was a way to contact these bureaucratic kings, but you cant.

  11. #2871
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    ^^^^^ Actually you can contact the higher ups, how do you think the age extension for 6019 happened?

    On another note, although this blogger doesn't share our views, its an interesting read about the appeals court oral argument proceedings.

    Is the U.S. Justice Department Supporting Discrimination by the New York Fire Department?

    Posted: 07/09/2012 4:31 pm

    Huffington Post



    Everyone who knows me or has read my articles and blogs, know that I'm a little over the top about the almost unheard of racial discrimination at New York City Fire Department. With fewer than 3 percent of nearly 11,000 uniformed firefighters African-American (CY 2011), it stands alone as having the worst diversity record among major cities in the nation.


    The current fight has been going on for more than a decade with the city consistently either refusing to cooperate with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) or making promises to change and then utterly failing to implement them. Finally, after 10 years of waiting, U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis has called the city to account, finding that the FDNY's hiring practices were broadly discriminatory on the basis of race. He went further and found that the firefighter exams and selection process had a discriminatory impact and that the FDNY knew this, yet allowed the exam to be used for years. Because of this, he ruled that the discrimination was intentional. The judge ordered major reforms to overseen by a court appointed monitor (United States of America and Vulcan Society, Inc. v. City of New York, S.D.N.Y., October 4, 2011).


    After losing one fight after another, the FDNY, backed by the Bloomberg administration, reached the desperate point of accusing Judge Garaufis of being unfair and having a "one-sided assessment of the evidence." It asked the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to have the judge removed from the case.

    Recently, the case -- now called United States v. Bloomberg -- moved to the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals on appeal by the city. The city is not challenging the disparate impact finding by Judge Garaufis -- only the disparate treatment finding, that the city knowingly discriminated against minorities in FDNY hiring practices.

    At the appeals argument, things got strange. Despite repeated questioning, the Justice Department, the original plaintiff in the case, offered no argument either on the legality of Judge Garaufis's remedial order as it concerned disparate treatment -- intentional discrimination -- or on the issue of disparate treatment itself. It refused to take a position on these points. This refusal brought this comment from Circuit Judge Jon Newman: "This is your lawsuit. In your lawsuit, a judge has made a ruling which is subject to major dispute, and you don't take a position?"

    What is going on here? All of a sudden the feds have nothing to say about the FDNY's long-term intentional discrimination in hiring. Is this a sop to the Bloomberg administration -- arguing only unintended discrimination by the city and not taking a position on knowing discrimination? The Obama administration appears to be retreating from a legal case out of fear of reprisal from a powerful mayor.

    After years of legal wrangling while discrimination in hiring went on, the Circuit Court may be on the verge of sending the lawsuit back to District Court for yet another hearing. Maybe the Bloomberg administration believes that it can run out the clock and leave office with the issue still unresolved. It wouldn't have to admit that it had been wrong all along.

    It is past time for the city to end this quixotic struggle and open fire department jobs to all New Yorkers, regardless of race or ethnicity. The fire department's hiring practices are a blot on New York City's reputation as a progressive, forward-looking place to work and live. This case is not a legacy that Mayor Bloomberg wants New Yorkers to remember after he leaves office and it's certainly not something the U.S. Justice Department should aid and abet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600 View Post
    ^^^^^ Actually you can contact the higher ups, how do you think the age extension for 6019 happened?

    On another note, although this blogger doesn't share our views, its an interesting read about the appeals court oral argument proceedings.

    Is the U.S. Justice Department Supporting Discrimination by the New York Fire Department?

    Posted: 07/09/2012 4:31 pm

    Huffington Post



    Everyone who knows me or has read my articles and blogs, know that I'm a little over the top about the almost unheard of racial discrimination at New York City Fire Department. With fewer than 3 percent of nearly 11,000 uniformed firefighters African-American (CY 2011), it stands alone as having the worst diversity record among major cities in the nation.


    The current fight has been going on for more than a decade with the city consistently either refusing to cooperate with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) or making promises to change and then utterly failing to implement them. Finally, after 10 years of waiting, U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis has called the city to account, finding that the FDNY's hiring practices were broadly discriminatory on the basis of race. He went further and found that the firefighter exams and selection process had a discriminatory impact and that the FDNY knew this, yet allowed the exam to be used for years. Because of this, he ruled that the discrimination was intentional. The judge ordered major reforms to overseen by a court appointed monitor (United States of America and Vulcan Society, Inc. v. City of New York, S.D.N.Y., October 4, 2011).


    After losing one fight after another, the FDNY, backed by the Bloomberg administration, reached the desperate point of accusing Judge Garaufis of being unfair and having a "one-sided assessment of the evidence." It asked the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to have the judge removed from the case.

    Recently, the case -- now called United States v. Bloomberg -- moved to the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals on appeal by the city. The city is not challenging the disparate impact finding by Judge Garaufis -- only the disparate treatment finding, that the city knowingly discriminated against minorities in FDNY hiring practices.

    At the appeals argument, things got strange. Despite repeated questioning, the Justice Department, the original plaintiff in the case, offered no argument either on the legality of Judge Garaufis's remedial order as it concerned disparate treatment -- intentional discrimination -- or on the issue of disparate treatment itself. It refused to take a position on these points. This refusal brought this comment from Circuit Judge Jon Newman: "This is your lawsuit. In your lawsuit, a judge has made a ruling which is subject to major dispute, and you don't take a position?"

    What is going on here? All of a sudden the feds have nothing to say about the FDNY's long-term intentional discrimination in hiring. Is this a sop to the Bloomberg administration -- arguing only unintended discrimination by the city and not taking a position on knowing discrimination? The Obama administration appears to be retreating from a legal case out of fear of reprisal from a powerful mayor.

    After years of legal wrangling while discrimination in hiring went on, the Circuit Court may be on the verge of sending the lawsuit back to District Court for yet another hearing. Maybe the Bloomberg administration believes that it can run out the clock and leave office with the issue still unresolved. It wouldn't have to admit that it had been wrong all along.

    It is past time for the city to end this quixotic struggle and open fire department jobs to all New Yorkers, regardless of race or ethnicity. The fire department's hiring practices are a blot on New York City's reputation as a progressive, forward-looking place to work and live. This case is not a legacy that Mayor Bloomberg wants New Yorkers to remember after he leaves office and it's certainly not something the U.S. Justice Department should aid and abet.
    I actually just wrote a comment reply to this arcticle on the Huffpost website. It'll probably be choppy since the word limit is 250 per comment haha but here it is anyway. Aslo Vekdoggs wrote a pretty good comment too. Way more concise than mine.

    Dear Mr. Jones,
    I understand you are probably firmly locked into your belief that the FDNY and the entire New York City government are part of a vast conspiracy to somehow, for some reason keep African Americans out of the fire department. As you start your article off, "Everyone who knows me or has read my articles and blogs, know that I'm a little over the top about the almost unheard of racial discrimination at New York City Fire Department." I'm less than optimistic about shifting your viewpoint. But I feel like anyone who clicks on your article should know just how subjective you are being.
    You state that because African Americans make up only 3% of the FDNY's ranks therefore the fire dept and city must be racist and intentionally screening them out of the hiring process. This is very simply "specious reasoning". It is the same logic that allows me to say, "I have a magic rock that keeps away tigers." I have never seen a tiger while carrying this rock so therefor it must be true.
    In order for your arguments to go beyond specious reasoning you must do something that in fact Judge Garaufis didn't do either. Back up your claim with facts. Did you take the 2003, 2007, or most recent exam? Did you even look at a copy of any of them to see how or if they were racist in their line of questioning? Have you even seen any example of the simple logic questions that make up the majority of these tests? (I have, and an 8th grader with no prior knowledge could ace it) Or, did you simply assume that because the top 4000 scorers didn't balance out perfectly with the racial percentages of NYC that they had to have been racist? If that is your argument, then why not be appalled by the low percentages of Asian Americans or Indian Americans in the FDNY. I can assure you that even though both groups put together would make up less than the number of African Americans currently in service they are listed nowhere in this lawsuit, so do they not count because they aren't black?
    If your point is that the FDNY and city have not tried to recruit in the black community over the last 10 years then how do you explain the MILLIONS of dollars that they have spent specifically for that purpose? Or the filing extension given to black applicants for this exam months past the deadline when Dakota Meyer (the first living marine to receive the medal of honor) was ONE DAY past the deadline because he was overseas and was denied the chance to apply by Judge Garaufis.
    The fact is that many people do not want this career; it is dangerous, will never make you rich, and takes lifelong dedication to staying in top mental and physical shape. The numbers of black candidates coming out for these exams (around 25% now) get better every year and that is a direct result of the city and the FDNY putting so much time, effort, and money into making black communities aware of the job and its perks over the last decade.

    Judge Garaufis has lost all sense of objectiveness in this case which is disgusting because he is a judge, not a blogger. He is attempting to enforce race based hiring and is outspoken in the media every chance he can get calling the city and the FDNY racist. He calls the FDNY a "bastion of white male privilege" while his own profession is 85% white. The hypocrisy is astounding. On top of which, the person he appointed as this exam’s hiring monitor, (against both party's wishes btw) Mr. Cohen was paid almost a half a million dollars for a little over a month of work and had prior real estate dealings with Judge Garaufis. So, let’s add cronyism to the long list of reasons this judge has no business being on the case or any other.

    The bottom line is the FDNY is understaffed to dangerously low levels because Garaufis has not let them hire for years. All the while he has never backed up his claims of racism in hiring with any facts. If he had any to begin with don't you think the Justice department would have brought them up when asked? As your article states, they did not, because there are none. This case needs to be thrown out and we need to move on as New Yorkers.

  13. #2873
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    Yeah I just felt compelled to write something down to this guy. He's a well respected invidual in the African American community, but his idea of what's going on here is just warped. I was cut for time so I had to make my response to the article short, but great job on this above. The biggest aspect you hit on directly was in the last paragraph....."he has never backed up his claims of racism." It's becoming a sad and unfortunate norm these days for people to throw that term around without valid reasoning. I agree that the African American community is poorly reflected in the ranks of the FDNY, but it seems everybody who's thrown the race card around in this case refuses to acknowledge the whole personal responsibility aspect of the exam process.

  14. #2874
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    Very well written River. I only wish more people could somehow see your well thought-out response!

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    I actually just wrote a comment reply to this arcticle on the Huffpost website. It'll probably be choppy since the word limit is 250 per comment haha but here it is anyway. Aslo Vekdoggs wrote a pretty good comment too. Way more concise than mine.

    Dear Mr. Jones,
    I understand you are probably firmly locked into your belief that the FDNY and the entire New York City government are part of a vast conspiracy to somehow, for some reason keep African Americans out of the fire department. As you start your article off, "Everyone who knows me or has read my articles and blogs, know that I'm a little over the top about the almost unheard of racial discrimination at New York City Fire Department." I'm less than optimistic about shifting your viewpoint. But I feel like anyone who clicks on your article should know just how subjective you are being.
    You state that because African Americans make up only 3% of the FDNY's ranks therefore the fire dept and city must be racist and intentionally screening them out of the hiring process. This is very simply "specious reasoning". It is the same logic that allows me to say, "I have a magic rock that keeps away tigers." I have never seen a tiger while carrying this rock so therefor it must be true.
    In order for your arguments to go beyond specious reasoning you must do something that in fact Judge Garaufis didn't do either. Back up your claim with facts. Did you take the 2003, 2007, or most recent exam? Did you even look at a copy of any of them to see how or if they were racist in their line of questioning? Have you even seen any example of the simple logic questions that make up the majority of these tests? (I have, and an 8th grader with no prior knowledge could ace it) Or, did you simply assume that because the top 4000 scorers didn't balance out perfectly with the racial percentages of NYC that they had to have been racist? If that is your argument, then why not be appalled by the low percentages of Asian Americans or Indian Americans in the FDNY. I can assure you that even though both groups put together would make up less than the number of African Americans currently in service they are listed nowhere in this lawsuit, so do they not count because they aren't black?
    If your point is that the FDNY and city have not tried to recruit in the black community over the last 10 years then how do you explain the MILLIONS of dollars that they have spent specifically for that purpose? Or the filing extension given to black applicants for this exam months past the deadline when Dakota Meyer (the first living marine to receive the medal of honor) was ONE DAY past the deadline because he was overseas and was denied the chance to apply by Judge Garaufis.
    The fact is that many people do not want this career; it is dangerous, will never make you rich, and takes lifelong dedication to staying in top mental and physical shape. The numbers of black candidates coming out for these exams (around 25% now) get better every year and that is a direct result of the city and the FDNY putting so much time, effort, and money into making black communities aware of the job and its perks over the last decade.

    Judge Garaufis has lost all sense of objectiveness in this case which is disgusting because he is a judge, not a blogger. He is attempting to enforce race based hiring and is outspoken in the media every chance he can get calling the city and the FDNY racist. He calls the FDNY a "bastion of white male privilege" while his own profession is 85% white. The hypocrisy is astounding. On top of which, the person he appointed as this examís hiring monitor, (against both party's wishes btw) Mr. Cohen was paid almost a half a million dollars for a little over a month of work and had prior real estate dealings with Judge Garaufis. So, letís add cronyism to the long list of reasons this judge has no business being on the case or any other.

    The bottom line is the FDNY is understaffed to dangerously low levels because Garaufis has not let them hire for years. All the while he has never backed up his claims of racism in hiring with any facts. If he had any to begin with don't you think the Justice department would have brought them up when asked? As your article states, they did not, because there are none. This case needs to be thrown out and we need to move on as New Yorkers.
    That is excellently written, but if it's not too late. Throw in some figures of the last test on minority recruitment and how well they did. And we can't forget the 6019 Candidates YouTube video!

  16. #2876
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    I'm pretty sure the judge had nothing to do with Dakota Meyer. The city offered it to him and he turned it down because he doesn't want any special treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chadxmerch View Post
    I'm pretty sure the judge had nothing to do with Dakota Meyer. The city offered it to him and he turned it down because he doesn't want any special treatment.
    City and Judge ONLY offered it to him, and not the general public during the original deadline (think this is the only situation in the world where deadlines don't matter to certain people). What I think River was referring to was that the Vulcans pursued extra time to reach out to black candidates when they realized a good amount had not fully completed the application process. I might be wrong, but I think this happened around Christmas/New Year's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vekdoggs75 View Post
    City and Judge ONLY offered it to him, and not the general public during the original deadline (think this is the only situation in the world where deadlines don't matter to certain people). What I think River was referring to was that the Vulcans pursued extra time to reach out to black candidates when they realized a good amount had not fully completed the application process. I might be wrong, but I think this happened around Christmas/New Year's?
    Yeah, I remember initially when he got to NYC he said he wanted to apply a day after registration closed and the judge said no way (all the while leaving it open for a couple months for certain groups). Then after a few days of public pressure Garaufis finally caved, by then Dakota came to the conclusion it wouldn't be fair to the other candidates and probably felt bad about special treatment. That guy has super hero levels of honor haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    Yeah, I remember initially when he got to NYC he said he wanted to apply a day after registration closed and the judge said no way (all the while leaving it open for a couple months for certain groups). Then after a few days of public pressure Garaufis finally caved, by then Dakota came to the conclusion it wouldn't be fair to the other candidates and probably felt bad about special treatment. That guy has super hero levels of honor haha.
    I was rather impressed by that myself, not because he said no but by his reasoning for saying that no; he didn't want special privilege even if it was offered to him. He said no to a world that says it's okay if it's given to you freely. I was much impressed by him for that reason compared to others who relish in the fact they will be given a "better" chance over others.

  20. #2880
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    The guy who wrote that blog and any one who thinks the FDNY hiring practice is racist is basically ignorant to the process. None of them realize or are willing to acknowledge that hiring is done by the merit system and not handing in a resume face to face. The ones who know this, purposly put a misleading spin on it to confused the public and further their biggoted agenda.
    What I just said is obvious to us all on here, it is just frustrating to see their same nonsense arguments getting reguritated over and over in the media, leaving out the actual facts.
    I meet people every week who really think(because of the medias poor coverage) that racist acts were actually found and none actually know what DCAS is or that just simply passing the test is not enough. They don't know that countless white people never made it, despite having scores in the low 90's

    Merit matters or some one who is well written on here, should write out a concise expination that the general population could understand, with the true facts of the story and racism of cherry picking candidates based on skin color. We should show up outside the court house or wherever else and hand all the papers out. I would show up and do it. Even if it doesn't get me on, I would be happy to do it becuase this craaap ****es me off so much.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-12-2012 at 03:05 PM.
    vekdoggs75 likes this.

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