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Thread: FDNY Exam 2000

  1. #2941
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    Ummm. This news isn't surprising. We knew about this the day he can Elle's our class August 2010....


    Sooooooo. Do u guys wanna keep waiting or do you want to rally/protest to get our voices heard



    This obviously should be on every front page newspaper in America. But sadly it's not

    Let's get the the fckin word out now!


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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    You did not "earn" nor "deserve" the job if you got it based on a quota hiring.

    Scores, merit and rank-order hiring. Plain, simple and fair.
    It's the way it's been done. It's the way it should be.
    Don't get it twisted around. All jobs everywhere have some type of discrimination or preference to a certain type of race. That's a fact . It has not always been about merit that's a fact also . Don't ignore the overall theme here I think everyone needs to realize that overall there has been unfairness on both sides . Whatever they decide to do is the best course of action both parties could come to an agreement on. I wanna be a firefighter I love the idea off being on a team and helping people . If I don't get in I'm a big boy honestly the whole crying foul stuff going on with the fdny is crazy . We need to get back to basics . If u get on u get on if u don't u don't . Let's get some rankings in August hopefully so we can adjust our lives accordingly .
    Fdnytolife4130 likes this.

  3. #2943
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    See the thing is with quota hiring it gets u in the room but it doesn't keep you there. My thing is it doesn't matter what kind of hiring they do once everyone gets to the academy everyone is equal. What keeps you there is your hard works, mental toughness , and versatility. Whatever the process is means nothing because if your not a hard worker it will show regardless. Anyone who gets outta that academy is qualified because they worked hard enough to get through it. You have to think about it from all points of view
    However the problem is ICNYC, the academy should not be where we find out if you're a fraud; it should be the process on the way. The same it is for most private businesses, police departments, and yes fire as well. We also cannot forget that with the judge being a tyrant and looking over every aspect of hire and fire, the Rock as well as the FDNY will be at his mercy even if they have both legitimate and honest reasons for termination that would be held to every firefighter regardless of race, religion, or gender.

    What makes one in equal in American terms is the opportunity to reach your dreams and public service is the closest to this utopian idea. Remember besides other city agencies, numerous jobs across the country have both heavy race and gender inequality in terms of workers, but they themselves are able to escape the rigors of the law by numerous loopholes or by the fact that those jobs are more numerous across the country allowing a "greater chance." A career I once considered is one of the worst with American airline pilots being at over 94% white and 97% male. (per ALPA)

    Also remember that what one side does wrong, if the other does the same or even worse no lesson was learned, no progress made. Two wrongs don't make a right and as such this whole process will ruin one of the best departments out there. For what?

    If we are to make progress we must "not judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the contents of his character." If we are to have the best of anything we must be judged by score, merit, and ability rather then what we circle on the census.

  4. #2944
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    Don't get it twisted around. All jobs everywhere have some type of discrimination or preference to a certain type of race. That's a fact . It has not always been about merit that's a fact also . Don't ignore the overall theme here I think everyone needs to realize that overall there has been unfairness on both sides . Whatever they decide to do is the best course of action both parties could come to an agreement on. I wanna be a firefighter I love the idea off being on a team and helping people . If I don't get in I'm a big boy honestly the whole crying foul stuff going on with the fdny is crazy . We need to get back to basics . If u get on u get on if u don't u don't . Let's get some rankings in August hopefully so we can adjust our lives accordingly .
    Twisted around?
    Back to basics?
    Yeah. And those basics are rank-order hiring.

    NOW. Cite your sources and give examples of all this "unfairness on both sides" you speak of.
    YOU DON'T DESERVE THE JOB IF YOU ARE RELYING ON A QUOTA.
    YOU SEEM TO BE EXPECTING IT. WANTING IT TO HAPPEN.
    And if it does, you're just going to shrug your shoulders and say, "Meh, at least i'm in."
    This job is steeped in tradition from the get-go. You do not and will not understand it until you are on the job, and that's with a big IF you get on the job.

    Instituting quotas will be a first step into the deconstruction of this great department.

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    All vets on the list I urge you to write a letter the the mayors office of veteran affairs explaining your concern. I wrote one and received an email in the same day. All it said was that they are aware of the situation blah blah blah. But the more NYC vets and out of city vets who do this the better it is. Google " mayors office of veterans affairs" and hit contact us. You can only type 150 words so be direct and respectful. Pretend your emailing an O-9
    Last edited by myles8683; 07-18-2012 at 05:53 PM.

  6. #2946
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    Twisted around?
    Back to basics?
    Yeah. And those basics are rank-order hiring.

    NOW. Cite your sources and give examples of all this "unfairness on both sides" you speak of.
    YOU DON'T DESERVE THE JOB IF YOU ARE RELYING ON A QUOTA.
    YOU SEEM TO BE EXPECTING IT. WANTING IT TO HAPPEN.
    And if it does, you're just going to shrug your shoulders and say, "Meh, at least i'm in."
    This job is steeped in tradition from the get-go. You do not and will not understand it until you are on the job, and that's with a big IF you get on the job.

    Instituting quotas will be a first step into the deconstruction of this great department.
    First I have not once on this forum said what I want to happen. Second I have said and an saying that I expect quotas to be the way they will hire history has shown ie affirmative action . I'm not saying its right or wrong , I'm saying that when things like this happen quotas, affirmative action based acceptance into schools , or programs is usually what happens. History is proof enough. Don't attack me with ur opinion . I'm not putting my feelings on here bitching I'm just trying make sense of it all and the direction it's moving in . So I can adjust my life accordingly . So don't be a dick when u see a post that u gets u worked up so much u write bull**** just to get a bunch of likes. I want to kno the direction this thing is taking I'm not into debating right or wrong
    Just like other guys on here I'm not into that little kid crying **** . So leave that attacking bs for someone else

  7. #2947
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse View Post
    However the problem is ICNYC, the academy should not be where we find out if you're a fraud; it should be the process on the way. The same it is for most private businesses, police departments, and yes fire as well. We also cannot forget that with the judge being a tyrant and looking over every aspect of hire and fire, the Rock as well as the FDNY will be at his mercy even if they have both legitimate and honest reasons for termination that would be held to every firefighter regardless of race, religion, or gender.

    What makes one in equal in American terms is the opportunity to reach your dreams and public service is the closest to this utopian idea. Remember besides other city agencies, numerous jobs across the country have both heavy race and gender inequality in terms of workers, but they themselves are able to escape the rigors of the law by numerous loopholes or by the fact that those jobs are more numerous across the country allowing a "greater chance." A career I once considered is one of the worst with American airline pilots being at over 94% white and 97% male. (per ALPA)

    Also remember that what one side does wrong, if the other does the same or even worse no lesson was learned, no progress made. Two wrongs don't make a right and as such this whole process will ruin one of the best departments out there. For what?

    If we are to make progress we must "not judge a man by the color of his skin, but by the contents of his character." If we are to have the best of anything we must be judged by score, merit, and ability rather then what we circle on the census.
    I get what ur saying dj but nobody wants to be the bigger man. Biting the bullet leaves a bad taste in ur mouth so that's why it's always an eye for an eye. I hate it but this is the reason why their will always be prejudice and racism because nobody ever wants to let go. I'm all for protesting and everything do what u can it's everyones right to their opinion. I want the job and I hope that if my house is burning the fireman that gets me , my wife and kid is wanted the job as bad as you and me . Hoping for the best is what I boils down to

  8. #2948
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    I get what ur saying dj but nobody wants to be the bigger man. Biting the bullet leaves a bad taste in ur mouth so that's why it's always an eye for an eye. I hate it but this is the reason why their will always be prejudice and racism because nobody ever wants to let go. I'm all for protesting and everything do what u can it's everyones right to their opinion. I want the job and I hope that if my house is burning the fireman that gets me , my wife and kid is wanted the job as bad as you and me . Hoping for the best is what I boils down to
    Some of the greatest leaders in history never had that view point and they instituted the most change in their respective society. Ghandi, MLK, Mandela, the list goes on and on and these men both by their enemies and friends are well-respected and image defining. You write about history but history shows that when man cares for other man the results, the society, and the people change and create a world directed for prosperity and peace. History has showed from numerous departments in numerous government fields across the country that this idea of preference destroys and ruins nearly all of them.

    Take a look at WMATA or before that LAPD where certain places had to hire by race and look at the destruction it caused by not having the best man but the best stat. This argument about everyone does it so I do too is wrong and causes more bad then good, it harkens back to the famous Jim Crow laws where even if you did care, yo didn't care to change it.

    This is not a talking to or yelling at but more of a correction that this thread is populated by those who want fair hire regardless of race, religion, or gender. That all candidates want to be treated fairly through the process and all will want other candidates to have the same thing, an equal chance.

    As a candidate to a candidate talk leave the quotas and all that out of here and focus on you, what you saw on the protest, and what can you do to train for the next step. Keep an eye on the judges' rulings and remember that change starts with one not many. Don't fall into the it's ok if it's me category either, if I'm hired to fill a quota I will fight every tooth and nail I have not to see this happen. Take this from a guy who wants all to be hired fairly and equally and wrote a paper on how to recruit people into public safety and away from the police end of it. I would love to see you at a meeting hopefully in September, best of luck.

  9. #2949
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    Default brooklyn or bust

    i also wanted to ask a question because i am confused.
    Anyone can answer even the grammar teacher.
    In order to make the fdny Equal, THEY'RE gonna start the Black and mexican probies with more then the whites.
    so if i am right here, the whites will make less then the minorites?
    seems pretty fair to me

  10. #2950
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    From what I read of that article, the quota is ***theoretically*** only going to be in effect for the first 300ish minorities hired to make up for the "discrimination" of the two tests prior to 6019. I agree with most of the guys on here - the quota is completely wrong and we should do what we can to stand against it - but did anyone else read the article the same way? As infuriating as it is, at least it doesn't sound (at this point) that its going to be in effect indefinitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MFES View Post
    From what I read of that article, the quota is ***theoretically*** only going to be in effect for the first 300ish minorities hired to make up for the "discrimination" of the two tests prior to 6019. I agree with most of the guys on here - the quota is completely wrong and we should do what we can to stand against it - but did anyone else read the article the same way? As infuriating as it is, at least it doesn't sound (at this point) that its going to be in effect indefinitely.
    That's how I read it as well. 2 blacks and 1 hispanic for every 5 people hired until the totals of 186 blacks and 107 hispanics are reached.

    It's downright depressing just to type that quota out. I remember being a school kid and thinking our generation would be the ones to see people for who they are and not see them for their color. The older I get, the more I realize things aren't changing for the better.
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    Did anyone else catch in that article the paragraph that reads "all new hires must past the new test as long as its cleared by the courts"? That would technically mean even the quotas would have to pass, right?

    If this quota thing goes thru I'm gonna talk to the judge and see if he can me into med school even though I had a low GPA. Then he can get me back pay from years of not being a neuro surgeon.

  13. #2953
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICNYC View Post
    First I have not once on this forum said what I want to happen. Second I have said and an saying that I expect quotas to be the way they will hire history has shown ie affirmative action . I'm not saying its right or wrong , I'm saying that when things like this happen quotas, affirmative action based acceptance into schools , or programs is usually what happens. History is proof enough. Don't attack me with ur opinion . I'm not putting my feelings on here bitching I'm just trying make sense of it all and the direction it's moving in . So I can adjust my life accordingly . So don't be a dick when u see a post that u gets u worked up so much u write bull**** just to get a bunch of likes. I want to kno the direction this thing is taking I'm not into debating right or wrong
    Just like other guys on here I'm not into that little kid crying **** . So leave that attacking bs for someone else
    You think I post on here to get a bunch of "likes"? Get a clue kid. I post on here because I have a vested interest in the job.

    You've already put it out there. From what I've discerned from your opinion is that you think that square one starts in the academy regardless of how you got there. It does, but you should get there on your merits; not a handout. I'm concerned that this job is becoming someones social experiment and pulls people who aren't next in line for the job.

    Affirmative Action/Quotas do not work. In fact it becomes reverse discrimination just to fill a slot.

    If this is the opinion of people who are hoping to get on the job, then once again, I'm done here.

    Finally, type out the whole word. It's "you" not "u". If you're trying to come across as educated and informed, it's not working. We aren't texting here.

    Good luck punk.
    Last edited by ffbam24; 07-18-2012 at 11:03 PM.

  14. #2954
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHHC08 View Post
    If this quota thing goes thru I'm gonna talk to the judge and see if he can me into med school even though I had a low GPA. Then he can get me back pay from years of not being a neuro surgeon.
    Don't forget to ask to be compensated for the intangible benefits like enjoyment of flexible scheduling and job satisfaction!!
    FDNYorDIETRYIN likes this.

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    Make phone calls, write letters and emails,,,,, i mentioned the mayors office of veterans affairs, i wrote another to my poc there and attached a copy of the court doc. i just wrote how it is an injustice to all vets and non vets alike. to be skipped over and quotas. i dont know how much power they have and its probly better to contact a media outlet.

    remember 3 out of 5 minorites will be off the "special list" not list 2000. so the minorities who studied and did well and earned a low list number have to suffer the consequences also.

    just to clear thing up, those are proposals correct? they arent written in stone. we do know well that bloomberg will not stand for quotas definetly a major asset in this particular case.
    Last edited by myles8683; 07-19-2012 at 09:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbam24 View Post
    You think I post on here to get a bunch of "likes"? Get a clue kid. I post on here because I have a vested interest in the job.

    You've already put it out there. From what I've discerned from your opinion is that you think that square one starts in the academy regardless of how you got there. It does, but you should get there on your merits; not a handout. I'm concerned that this job is becoming someones social experiment and pulls people who aren't next in line for the job.

    Affirmative Action/Quotas do not work. In fact it becomes reverse discrimination just to fill a slot.

    If this is the opinion of people who are hoping to get on the job, then once again, I'm done here.

    Finally, type out the whole word. It's "you" not "u". If you're trying to come across as educated and informed, it's not working. We aren't texting here.

    Good luck punk.
    Excellent post and I couldn't agree more.

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    I am curious if any has heard anything about how they plan to grade the test with the weights of Psych portion and regular portion?
    If the judge is successful in his push for this priority hiring for minorities who scored over a 20, and these "priority" hires need to pass the 2000 test, then I am wondering how they plan to grade 2000 and the Psych portion. I ask because I have a feeling (obviously) there will be some serious screwing with the test key and weighting of it, in order to help the Priority hires pass.

    I really hope the appeal crushes this nonsense and exposes the hypocrisy in it to the public.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-19-2012 at 12:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    I am curious if any has heard anything about how they plan to grade the test with the weights of Psych portion and regular portion?
    If the judge is successful in his push for this priority hiring for minorities who scored over a 20, and these "priority" hires need to pass the 2000 test, then I am wondering how they plan to grade 2000 and the Psych portion. I ask because I have a feeling (obviously) there will be some serious screwing with the test key and weighting of it, in order to help the Priority hires pass.

    I really hope the appeal crushes this nonsense and exposes the hypocrisy in it to the public.

    I dont think anybody has any info on how this will be graded and I have a feeling since those questions don't have a true "right" or "wrong" answer, that the answer key will be adjusted to get the desired results......and even then, there will be a push for quotas. The whole thing is a ****e sandwich, but we're all hungry and don't have much of a choice after all these years.

    Just my opinion on protest/letter writing/etc.....this whole thing is tied up in the Judicial System at this point and public opinion (and basic logic, apparently) does not really come into play at all.

    If it were an issue before the City Council, then getting public opinion on our side might help. The courts don't care what the public thinks, they will look (hopefully, now on appeal) at the facts and the law and make a judgement. Holding a protest rally may make you feel good and get some frustration out, but honestly, it won't make any difference on the outcome of this whole debacle. I guess having more people aware isn't a bad thing though.

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    I think we would have had a better chance if it was just the vulcans vs the fdny but the Department of Justice is what hurt us. "United States of America v. City of New York" does not look good at all.
    Ive always heard that to get through this process you have to really want it. For you guys already otj, was the academy a cake walk? For a person to get through it, did he/she have to really push themselves or not? I guess what i really want to know is can a person that is'nt serious about this job get through the academy. I cant imagine a person getting through that couldnt even fill out the application correctly.

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    I'm not with this department but I am with another career dept and of course lazy people slip through the cracks but fire school isn't a joke. It will be a eye opener to most people who have no fire experience. Recruits who don't take it serious will pass out in burns or during PT with gear, people will fail tests they don't study for, and instructors will see who isn't giving the effort they should be giving and will handle them appropriately. If those lazy people still make it through a bad label will be attached to them and they won't start with a good reputation. Houses won't want them, FF won't want to work with them, and this job won't be all that great for them.
    ffhh74 likes this.

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