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Thread: FDNY Exam 2000

  1. #3001
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    Default Here's my simple objection

    Any test that assesses the exact knowledge attained through US education system and cognitive abilities of a test-taker, by default, cannot be discriminatory against human race, sexual orientation, political inclination, religious views. It lies on the test-taker to be able to apply solving skills, the methodologies of which are taught throughout all 12 grades (this assumes the test-taker has a high school diploma or GED – minimum education requirements for FDNY). If a candidate does not possess the combination of both, which is determined by the test, he or she does have any right to be considered for the FDNY Firefighter position.

    There is no guaranty that all 293 so-called victims could have passed the physical test, background check, training academy and/or any other stages in the process of becoming a firefighter. Assuming a so-called victim were hired, he or she could have quit, been terminated, placed on unpaid leave, or died in the line of duty, all of which unequivocally would have affected the compensation. It is unfair to provide monetary and non-monetary entitlements to all and/or any so-called victims, because there are many variables and various events that could have taken place from the day of the tests and the day of Court’s decision.
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    Heres my objection letter-


    US Department of Justice, I wholeheartedly object to the relief order that is giving priority hiring and back pay to black and Hispanics who did not put forth the effort and apply themselves to get a position in the New York City Fire Department. The vulcan lawsuit is based solely on a "percentage of blacks" in the FDNY and has no facts or evidence to back up any of these outlandish claims John Coombs and Paul Washington have made. Further more, Judge Garaufis has taken it upon himself to be the judge, jury, and executioner in regards to the outcome of this case, and what has so far been the last 5 years of my life.



    Where do I begin?





    I took exam 6019 in January of 2007 on a cold Saturday morning. I had studied hours upon hours, reading through the online handbooks as well as the prep courses which I had paid $500 for. I was prepared and ready to get the job I had waited for my entire life. I scored very well on that exam... in the top 5% and was given a list number that I was very proud of. Unfortunately for me my class(the second class of 6019) was canceled in the winter of 2008 and again in the winter of 2009 as the economic crisis had drained all city funds. I waited three years to finally have my class set to go in August of 2010 until Judge Garaufis stepped in and deemed the 6019 list racially biased based on Disparate impact. 6019 wasn't even in the original law suit set forth by the vulcans yet I was punished because of a radical and insane judge who has his own agenda and political reasoning. The fact that this judge is giving preferential treatment to minorities who scored so poorly is downright appalling. Being a firefighter is a very dangerous job and one that should be taken very serious, especially the hiring portion. Letting people in the department who do not put forth the effort to be there in the first place is a risk nobody should be willing to take. Civil service exams have no color to them. They are black and white. Everyone takes the same test, you get a score, a list number and hiring should be done in rank order. Why is it my fault that some african americans and hispanics did poorly on their test? They took the same exam as I did, an exam that was given at an 8th grade test takers level. Why should I be penalized in trying to get the job I always wanted. The people who should be most upset with this lawsuit and the judge (Besides 6019 candidates) are the minorities who actually did well and excelled on their tests. They are being made out to look like fools by their own creed in Washington and Coombs. Coombs called the minority candidates in my class "casualties of war" and "sacrificial lambs". What a terrible thing to say to the same people you are "trying to help".





    There is no doubt that Blacks make up a very small portion of the FDNY, but the fact is they have to apply for the job and want to take the test. Minority test takers have increased since exam 7029 and was the most diverse ever in 6019 with the citys outstanding recruitment campaign yet judge Garaufis says the 35% minority passing was not good enough. The only way to get the numbers he wants is through his quota hiring which should not be tolerated in any civil service job. Again, giving preferential treatment to one race is the exact definition of racism and discrimination. The only people who were discriminated against was the class of 6019 as they were not allowed entry into the FDNY over this frivolous law suit.





    What is even scarier about this whole ordeal is the amount of blacks who turned out to take exam #2000. There was only a 1% percent increase in african americans taking exam #2000 vs exam 6019. This shocking revelation comes even when Washington and Coombs themselves went door to door of the prospects helping them fill out their applications. Judge Garaufis even allowed an extension ONLY to Blacks to submit their applications in late and yet they only had a 1% increase in turnout? There was also a 35% no show among black candidates. This only proves the point that you cant GIVE someone a job. Einstein said it best "Insanity is the doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results". Judge Garaufis killed my dream over a social experiment that didn't work. When the results of the test and the percentage of blacks did not go his way, he was forced to come up with this relief order as it was his last resort.





    There are only two victims of this judges poor ruling, Candidates like myself who took exam 6019 and the taxpayers of NYC. I do not believe that the judge has any right to give priority hiring to candidates who were unsuccessful at the same test I succeeded at, nor give someone who scored over a 25 on a test backpay and seniority. The only people who have a leg to stand on are the candidates of 6019 as WE are the only people that should be receiving any back pay or special treatment. But I am not here for that, The only thing im concerned about is getting on the job and fullfilling my dream, and to take back what was wrongfully stolen from me by his honor himself.





    Respectfully

    xxxxxx



    6019 Never Dying always Breathing

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    Just heard on the news that the Department of justice has been found to be filled with nepotism when it comes to hiring and paid internships. Sounds like stubborn bastion of privledge to me.
    Last edited by BrooklynBorn; 07-27-2012 at 08:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn View Post
    Just heard on the news that the Department of justice has been found to be filled with nepotism when it comes to hiring and paid internships. Sounds like stubborn bastion of privledge to me.
    Shocker - The thing I love about these terds is that they're the biggest hypocritical hunks of crap around. You think the Vulcans see racism in any heavily African American occupation? Puuuhlease.

    DOJ - Imagine they started making the BAR significantly easier for a better racial makeup? Holy **** these clowns would be screaming at the top of their lungs that the court system would crumble if such a thing passed.

    Judge - I don't know have enough words for this fella. If Clinton had passed on this clown for sayyyy, an African American w/ far less "judicial expertise", I wonder how he would be feeling?

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    From NY Post see part about bringing diversity to FDNY

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...SAwc5mecL0Wo0M

    A federal jury today convicted embattled City Councilman Larry Seabrook on nine criminal counts that he funneled $1.5 million in taxpayer money to friends and family.

    Seabrook was found guilty of trying to sneak the public funds to nonprofits that he secretly ran with what prosecutors called his "yes men and stooges."

    He was immediately thrown out of office as a convicted felon, under state law.

    “This conviction ends Larry Seabrook’s power to channel the flow of taxpayer funds to himself, his family, and his cronies,” Department of Investigation Commissioner Rose Gill Hearn. “His career as an elected official is over, and his life as a convicted felon begins.”
    AP
    Larry Seabrook was convicted Thursday on nine of 12 counts.

    The Manhattan panel also acquitted the Bronx Democrat on three charges related to his alleged laundering of roughly $50,000 in "illegal thank you payments" from a Bronx businessman.

    Seabrook emerged from the courthouse about an hour after the verdict, holding

    hands with his wife, Maria Diaz.

    "My reaction is that I continue to have faith in God, faith in the system, faith in my attorneys and faith in where we're going to go and my wife and my family, that I continue to have faith, continue to believe in the system and I'll prepare myself for whatever is next," said the convicted pol, who will remain free on bail.

    Asked if he planned to appeal the verdict, Seabrook said: "Well we're talking to

    my attorneys and we'll find out what's the next step.”

    "We respect the jury's verdict,” said defense lawyer Ed Wilford. “We don't agree

    with it but we respect it.

    "And we're going to do everything we can to pursue Mr. Seabrook's legal rights

    and remedies from this point on.”

    Seabrook faces up to 20 years on each of the nine counts for which he was convicted.

    Prosecutors said Seabrook used a phony $177 receipt for a bagel sandwich and a Diet Snapple as part of that alleged scheme.

    “Councilman Larry Seabrook abused the power of his office to influence public contracts and to fund his own corrupt friends and family plan,” US Attorney Preet Bharara said.

    “Today’s conviction ensures that the councilman will pay for betraying the public trust. Rooting out public corruption and restoring the public’s faith in honest government remains a vital mission of this office.”

    Seabrook’s elaborate, three-part scam sent money to a city slush fund, job training program and a group aimed at bringing diversity to the FDNY.

    This was a retrial of a prosecution that ended late last year, with a hung jury on all counts.

    All jurors in this prosecution left court without making any comments today.

    “Larry Seabrook has been convicted of crimes that display a galling abuse of the trust and confidence placed in public officials,” New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn.

    Voters will fill Seabrook's seat on Election Day in November. It'll be a non-partisan election.

    The City Council will send staffers to Seabrook's district office, so none of his constituents lose services between now and the election of his replacement.

    Additional reporting by David Seifman and David K. Li

    Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...#ixzz21qInYU5h

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    Good Catch in that article. Thanks buddy.

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    Has anyone had to change their address since taking the exam? If so, how did you go about doing this? I'm writing a letter to DCAS, but I know the NYPD requires you not only write a letter to DCAS but to also contact their recruitment section. Thanks in advance for any help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CableGuy516 View Post
    Has anyone had to change their address since taking the exam? If so, how did you go about doing this? I'm writing a letter to DCAS, but I know the NYPD requires you not only write a letter to DCAS but to also contact their recruitment section. Thanks in advance for any help.
    A few years ago I changed my address with DCAS. The woman you want to speak with is Dawn, she was extremely helpful. She'll give you a fax number and take care of the rest.

    Definitly contact the recruitment center for FDNY also.
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    Ok, getting ready to fire off my objection letter.

    To whom it may concern,
    I hereby object to U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis’ proposed relief order to compensate black and Hispanic candidates who failed the fire fighter entry exams 7029 and 2043.
    A person who scores as low as a 25% on a multiple choice test should not be considered for hiring or compensation. Realistically, it would be possible to receive a 25 on a test by blind guessing, and this system is akin to saying that anyone who is of a certain skin color gets a free pass to become a fire fighter.
    If those tests were in Judge Garaufis’ opinion unfair tests, then shouldn’t anyone, regardless of skin color get a free pass? A standardized test that, in my opinion as one of those who took the exam in 2007 and 2012, an 8th grader could score a 100 on and that required no previous knowledge of firefighting, is not one that should be labeled discriminatory. How could the tests be discriminatory if they were devised and implemented by the Department of Citywide Administrative Services, where a majority of the employees are people of color?
    The notion that, because the percentage of people who took and passed a test does not exactly match the ethnic makeup of a city that gave it, then makes the test racist, is specious reasoning. This “evidence” was the only put forward that these exams were discriminatory. Considering that non-latino blacks are in fact the most over-represented group in the NYC municipal workforce seems to soundly strike down the idea that there is a city wide conspiracy to not hire them since all these workforces, from the NYPD to the Dept of sanitation take similar exams for entry.
    To the claim by Judge Garaufis that firefighters do not need simple reading comprehension skills, it’s not only insulting but so ignorant it highlights why someone who knows so little about fire fighter operations should not preside over a case concerning them. Reading comprehension is critical to the job considering the wide range of skills that must be learned and classes that firefighters are required to attend throughout their careers.
    What this whole issue boils down to is that it is never acceptable to hire someone based on the color of their skin, which is precisely what this order demands. It would not be legal at a McDonalds or a Walmart and it is certainly not legal, acceptable, or sane for a fire department. This is a career where lives are at risk every day. If the FDNY is forced to hire unqualified persons, then people will inevitably die due to incompetence and laziness. Imagine someone who did not care enough to spend a few hours preparing for a simple exam, being counted on a daily basis to show up to an emergency situation on time and follow or give orders to save lives.
    This order giving 300 unqualified people seniority, lost wages, and monetary rewards for failing a test is the epitome of reckless judicial activism from a judge that has lost all sense of objectivism. The next time judge Garaufis thinks about calling the FDNY a “bastion of white male privilege” perhaps he should look at his own profession in which is over 85% white. If Judge Garaufis wants to make a difference then perhaps he should resign and let an underrepresented African American fill his spot.
    Sincerely,
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    river great letter , the last sentence in the last paragraph is amazing

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    Praying for the Rodriques family. Lost a hero and a brave man

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7andchange View Post
    Can someone please explain something because I guess I'm missing something. The original lawsuit was against tests 7029 given in 1999 and 2043 given in 2002. Then comes alone test 6019 in 2007 that the judge throws out because of disparate impact which he's says is basically discrimination because of the results. So how come only people are going to collect from the 7029 and 2043 tests? Was 6019 not discriminatory enough? Because if that's the case then the city shouldn't be stopped from hiring off that list. I just started thinking about this after reading all of the emails from the city about the fairness hearing. If someone could shed some light on this for me I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
    Its because 6019 was not part of the original lawsuit. The Department of Justice and the Plaintiffs-Intervenors have not filed suit against the City with respect to any entry-level firefighter exams other than Written Exams 7029 and 2043

    On August 4th 2010, judge di*khead Garaufis arbitrarily incorporated 6019 into his injunction preventing the city from hiring
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    Hey guys,

    Not trying to start the rumor mill, but I do want to share what I heard from a reliable source. This person did say that the first academy class would be all EMS promos in order to warm up the instructors at the academy since its been so long without a class going through.

    It was also said that the first class would be in September but we obviously know that's in no way possible.

    A separate person (who is otj) said that a March 2013 is a more likely scenario.

    Anyone else hear anything?

  15. #3015
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    I've heard pretty much the same from the few guys I know otj. They want to get a class in ASAP, they are under headcount by a ton, the first class will be mostly promo's. Each rumor always has a little different spin, but those are the three things that are consistently said every time I pester them about rumors circulating in their house.

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    Let me know what you all think...



    To Whom it May Concern,

    All men and women are created equal. It is proven scientific fact that all homo sapiens, despite different creed and color are equal upon birth. It is the situations, scenarios and often socioeconomic conditions that often define us as we mature to adults. Biologically speaking there are more similarities between each and every one of the seven billion of us than there are differences.

    Racism is nothing more than an ignorant excuse for discrimination based on unjust rationales. The problem is that like all isms it is a belief and not a fact. Any small child who grew up believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy can typically tell you that not all beliefs, no matter how real they may seem are one day eclipsed by the ultimate truth.

    The current ruling in the United States and Vulcan Society, et al v. The City of New York is actually more “Racist” than the “problem” it intends to alleviate. The cure to Racism or discrimination is not more of it, in fact the only true cure is education. Unless there is concrete evidence that the test is clearly discriminatory towards one group (mind you that we are all biologically the same) or that certain members of the FDNY simply neglected to hire fully qualified candidates of African or Latin American descent, then the argument is invalid. Not only is it invalid but the argument goes against years of scientific research and reinforces the wrong belief that two ethnic groups are inferior to others.

    Despite the claims of the case the FDNY has indeed hired minority candidates. Are they in the ratios that would equal “political correctness?” No. But the fact of the matter is that distinguished organizations such as the Vulcan Society do it exist. I am an avid supporter of solidarity amongst people of a common heritage, however the fact that numbers of African American candidates have been hired proves that it is possible for them to be hired. Perhaps comparing the backgrounds of minority candidates who have been hired over the past two decades to those who have not gotten hired can offer more insight on the issue.

    I am well aware that the racial makeup of the FDNY is not where it “should” be, but if you look at every sector in this country from politics to professional sports to private companies to minimum wage paying jobs it will never be perfect anywhere. Our nation is very diverse, it will be difficult for every single thing to be split down the middle.

    As a child it was my dream to be a professional athlete. As i grew older and realized my potential as an athlete peaked in high school I knew that it was not a realistic expectation for myself any longer. Was it because of the color of my skin? My last name? What my parents and sibling did for careers? No it was because for one I lacked the natural ability to compete athletically at the highest level. Despite that I also lacked the drive, determination and dedication it took to progress to the higher levels of athleticism. I could have applied for admission into Law School, but I never had the slightest interest in becoming a lawyer amongst other numerous career paths. In return I aimed my sights on more realistic careers as I progressed from high school to college.

    Those careers revolved around the civil service sector. While I never made it as not only a professional but not even a collegiate athlete, it was not from a lack of trying. While my athletic potential finally plateaued my potential as a civil servant grows more and more each day. It has been growing for over twenty years.

    It started in the classrooms of the public schools that I attended where I was taught about accountability. I was taught that the only person responsible for my fate would be myself. Whatever I put in was what I got out. That meant reading and completing all of my assignments and if I could not complete said assignments I would seek extra help from my teacher (something that all NYS teachers are required to offer). This meant meeting and exceeding the NYS curriculum standards and attendance policies.

    Now I have had the luxury of some incredible teachers in my day, but I also have had some miserable ones. Despite my biases towards my former instructors I still had to do what was required of me by them, by their institution and by the state. My point being is that if you follow these simple steps any civil service exam should be simple no matter what public education system you went through.

    The bottom line is that while we are biologically the same our personalities and life experiences make us different. Some people are not cut out for certain careers and some people have no desire to pursue certain careers. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin or their heritage, nothing other than the content of their character.

    I view the settlements at hand as a form of appeasement towards a group who are hiding behind an extinct belief (racism). While the commonly misunderstood definition of racism still exists in our nation along with people who hold unjust prejudices towards certain ethnic groups, we are all protected from anything truly racist by the US Constitution. Even if the claims of discrepancies amongst educations received is the main belligerent then the education records of the 293 victims should be audited. If they attended all of their classes and did all of their assignments and still could not pass an exam then there is an issue, but the issue should be at the hands of the victims respective Boards of Education for not preparing them well enough for civic life.

    The day that I become an FDNY Firefighter will be the proudest day of my life. When I am bestowed that honor I hope to be amongst men and women of multiple cultures. All that I ask and I think the people of the City of New York will agree is that the candidates are fully qualified.

    Sincerely,

    XXX
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    Quote Originally Posted by MerritMatters View Post
    Hey guys,

    Not trying to start the rumor mill, but I do want to share what I heard from a reliable source. This person did say that the first academy class would be all EMS promos in order to warm up the instructors at the academy since its been so long without a class going through.

    It was also said that the first class would be in September but we obviously know that's in no way possible.

    A separate person (who is otj) said that a March 2013 is a more likely scenario.

    Anyone else hear anything?
    Well, this thread seems to do with that. http://www.firehouse.com/forums/t124406-3/ (FDNY EMT Exam #2004)

    I'm not sure if they are talking about just an EMS/ EMT class or a EMS/ EMT promotion to firefighter.

    Its only 3 pages and pretty recent. Any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by River6019 View Post
    Well, this thread seems to do with that. http://www.firehouse.com/forums/t124406-3/ (FDNY EMT Exam #2004)

    I'm not sure if they are talking about just an EMS/ EMT class or a EMS/ EMT promotion to firefighter.

    Its only 3 pages and pretty recent. Any thoughts?
    The impression I am getting is they are talking about an EMT class, not a class for the fire department.

    The title is EMT exam 2004. The promotional list # is 2500 for firefighter. Hopefully they are talking about having an EMS class. We haven't even heard anything yet from the appeals court

  19. #3019
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    This is the only thing I found on the rant website.

    Yesterday marked the beginning of about a month of informal information sessions about the CPAT that are being held at the Fire Academy by the Health and Fitness unit for any EMS member that took #2500. I went, told me nothing I didn't know about the CPAT already, mainly stressed the fact that the CPAT is a joke next to the academy, so get off your lazy butts, etc etc. It was good.


    Read more: http://fdnyrant.proboards.com/index....#ixzz22yI9MQjl
    Test 2000
    Score 97
    List#700X
    Do I stand a chance?

    I will not tire, I will not falter, and I will not fail!!!

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    This decision actually gets me really excited. It sets precedent for our appeal I believe. Maybe things are gonna start going in the right direction.

    http://thechiefleader.com/news/news_...tml?mode=image

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