FDNY Exam 2000

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Originally Posted by FDsouthbxNY

Thanks for passing along the information, but this story has a few holes in it. If he took the test, passed and did not take the job, he'd be entitled to nothing, certainly not a figure close to 200,000 dollars. Second, seeing as this issue is being reviewed by an appellate court, no money has been handed to anyone.

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I can only go by what I was told. you don't have to take the job to receive a pay out. It stated that in the court order so I know my friend is not lying. A check was not giving to him just information of what his pay out will be.

Cash awards of back pay to make up for wages and benefits lost due to discrimination
Consideration for a job offer to become an FDNY firefighter (must meet all current minimum job qualifications, except the age requirement)
Seniority to current FDNY firefighters and those hired as a result of this lawsuit
Black applicants may also receive compensatory damages (which are separate from back pay) under certain conditions

Finally, the City will pay priority hire claimants their retroactively higher salary and provide them with retroactive seniority on the date of their admission to the Fire Academy.
Claimants do not need to seek priority hiring relief in order to be eligible for an award of back pay and (for black Claimants) compensatory damages for noneconomic harms.

I also believe him about the money, they are giving these guy back pay from the time they took the test. Some took it in 2003 for test 7029
and 2006 for test 2043. That 10 year of back pay plus interest.

Ref: From court order
This amount excludes the value of back pay and prejudgment interest that began to accrue on January 1, 2011, and will continue to accrue through the date when the priority hires have joined the FDNY. Once the priority hires have joined the FDNY, the parties may move for a finding as to the additional aggregate wage loss suffered from the end of 2010 to the date the priority hires joined the FDNY (the date that the loss will no longer accrue). (Dkt. 825 at 46 n. 12.) This amount also excludes the value of fringe benefits, which the court indicated should be calculated based on unreimbursed expenses actually incurred by Claimants. (Id. at 39-40.) The court set forth the parameters for the calculation of fringe benefits in its August 22, 2012, Memorandum & Order. (Dkt. 952.)

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Originally Posted by Jukez

So you trying to tell us that if you were in our shoes you were to turn down the job if it was you in our position right now right?

I understand guys OTJ want to keep the value of the job but we as candidates also want to get hired. I been waiting to get on the job since I took the 6019 test. I don't want to be on my 30's still persuing this career when I should have been 21 OTJ already. Although I don't agree with the test format I will NOT turn down the job because of it.

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No no no, I'm not suggesting anyone should turn down the job, should it come up. All of you guys who are high on the list need to keep working hard and preparing. What I do read here from some and is upsetting is that guys in early hiring range just want us all to accept the order and move on. Guys are worried that someone causing a stink and making accusations could lead to a hiring delay. That's the "I got mine attitude", it doesn't fly in the firehouse.

When your number comes up, be ready and take the job, I'm in no way suggesting that you pass it up. What I am saying is, don't ever stop asking questions about the process. Asking questions and seeking transparency is key to preserving merit.

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Originally Posted by myles8683

I wouldn't say the test was easy. I mean realistically I only scored a 95. If I wasn't a vet and resident there is no way I would fall within the hiring range. I think that's something we need to remember there were not many perfect scores and without those points the list would probly be completely different. My point is plenty of these people wrote a better test and won't be hired.

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It means that if you were lucky to live in the city then you get the points and you move on. The saddest part is that is why departments fail. Just ask the NYPD, LAPD, CPD, MPDC, and numerous other departments that were forced to change hiring standards to appeal to a broader group and look what has happened to their reputations.

Really this test was about luck if you had the points you are lucky, if not you're screwed. Fine but I do demand transperancy because without that it sets a precedent for your future tests like promotionals and special assignments.

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Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse

It means that if you were lucky to live in the city then you get the points and you move on. The saddest part is that is why departments fail. Just ask the NYPD, LAPD, CPD, MPDC, and numerous other departments that were forced to change hiring standards to appeal to a broader group and look what has happened to their reputations.

Really this test was about luck if you had the points you are lucky, if not you're screwed. Fine but I do demand transperancy because without that it sets a precedent for your future tests like promotionals and special assignments.

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What a joke!

Were those extra points or "lucky points" in place before you took the exam? Did you not read about them on the notice of examination or did this topic of bonus points just come up now? Have these points not been in place for two decades when bam and southbx took the exam? You would have had plenty of time to cause a stir about them then but after your list number is 9600 you decide now that these points are "lucky points."

I guess those vets and disabled vets were just lucky too. Lucky to have fought in a war. Lucky enough to come back with an injury.

Better yet those guys with legacy credits are the luckiest yet. Lucky enough to lose a parent or sibling.

BTW, being that you've tested pretty much everywhere in the US, have you taken the BFD test? Guess the fact that they choose all residents (regardless of score) before non-residents makes those people lucky too and BFD a "failure of a department."

I don't think the " I want mine" attitude is wrong here. Quite frankly, even though we are all friends here helping 1 another..we are all competition. The attitude doesn't fly in the firehouse, which it shouldn't. But, you guys and girls already got "yours". You are already on the job. We are not. Some of us had to wait years for a re-test, some of us, this test was our last chance due to the age limit, some of us are putting our family and life on hold while we wait...some of you are moving your family all over the place... Was the test the best test possible for a civil service job? Not really. Does the test mirror other fire depts tests? Yes. Does it mirror the questions asked for most other entry level jobs? Yes.

I'm here to be a firefighter in the city of New York. The test is the process. Are you able to pass the CPAT? Are you able to pass the medical, able to keep a clean nose? Able to pass the academy?

I have the utmost confidence in the instructors and staff at the Rock. That will be the test. The reputation you build there will follow you through your career.

In the army whenever our unit would get the raw deal, we would ask why us? How come we don't get a break? We've been on missions for 24 hours why not then? And our platoon sgt said "worry about your piece of the pie, that's the only thing that matters and the only thing you can control"
Perpetration for the ultimate goal is each persons individual piece of the pie. I will worry about doing my mission so that I can be an valued member of the team. I got screwed 1000 spots because of my social.. I'm not complaining, I knew about it, I took the chance just like everyone else. I knew it would be a personality test.. Just like everyone else. I prepared myself for failure... Bc these types of tests are hit or miss. Fortunately I am in a hirable range.

That is all...

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Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse

It means that if you were lucky to live in the city then you get the points and you move on. The saddest part is that is why departments fail. Just ask the NYPD, LAPD, CPD, MPDC, and numerous other departments that were forced to change hiring standards to appeal to a broader group and look what has happened to their reputations.

Really this test was about luck if you had the points you are lucky, if not you're screwed. Fine but I do demand transperancy because without that it sets a precedent for your future tests like promotionals and special assignments.

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Seriously? Haha. You and the vulcans are starting to sound alike. Everyone here knew exactly what the test was all about and how much those extra points were going to make the difference. We all had access to the same study materials. Pretty much everyone that has been posting on this forum for a while now have decent list numbers if not some of the best list numbers except for you and a couple others. Obviously we saw something in the test you didn't. Go demand some transparency, while you do that I'll be waiting for my packet by the summer for the second time in 6 years.

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Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse

It means that if you were lucky to live in the city then you get the points and you move on. The saddest part is that is why departments fail. Just ask the NYPD, LAPD, CPD, MPDC, and numerous other departments that were forced to change hiring standards to appeal to a broader group and look what has happened to their reputations.

Really this test was about luck if you had the points you are lucky, if not you're screwed. Fine but I do demand transperancy because without that it sets a precedent for your future tests like promotionals and special assignments.

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How are you lucky to of lived in the city ? Everyone knew how important extra points were and the residency credits were the easiest way to get those points. Getting those points weren't luck, it's a personal choice. Each and every one of us has the option of moving to NYC and either we did or we didn't, it's not luck. And if you wanted this job bad enough you would have made the move. If a city environment isn't your place there are plenty of suburban neighborhoods within the 5 boroughs, Howard Beach, Whitestone, Bayside, Little Neck just to name a few. I agree with you this entire exam needs more transparency but saying that getting residency points is luck is just a cop out because you didn't want to move to the city.

Really? You're going to twist his words around to make it seem like he's saying that about the vets and legacy candidates?
This was about luck. There is a template in place with the answer key that skews the scores to what they are. Specifically those with residency points IMO so as a certain demographic would score higher. And every single one of you is a victim as well as this department.

Coming here to check on you knuckleheads and all I find is bitterness and arguing. Boy how things have changed...

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Originally Posted by ffbam24

This was about luck. There is a template in place with the answer key that skews the scores to what they are. Specifically those with residency points IMO so as a certain demographic would score higher.

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After saying there is a "template in place," you then say "in my opinion."

Which is it? Is it your opinion?

Or do you have proof?

You as well as anybody who knows anything about whats been going on, knows that one could easily argue this has been the most transparent process in the FDNY's history thus far solely due to the lawsuit. Everything you want to know about the entire process has been argued in court and is in numerous court documents. From bonus points to, age limits, to residency deadlines, testing sites, to scoring of examinations.

What more could you ask for? Its all in writing for all to see.

pacer.gov

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Originally Posted by BrooklynBorn

they should throw out the last part of the test. I doubt that part holds much legal weight. I bet if the last part was thrown out, lots of people( not all) at the top would be moved to the bottom because they had poor test taking skills and lying on the last part of the test greatly benefited them, as it was meant to.

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Yes, all us veterans that are at the top of the list should be moved to the bottom because we were all lying...

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Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600

What a joke!

Were those extra points or "lucky points" in place before you took the exam? Did you not read about them on the notice of examination or did this topic of bonus points just come up now? Have these points not been in place for two decades when bam and southbx took the exam? You would have had plenty of time to cause a stir about them then but after your list number is 9600 you decide now that these points are "lucky points."

I guess those vets and disabled vets were just lucky too. Lucky to have fought in a war. Lucky enough to come back with an injury.

Better yet those guys with legacy credits are the luckiest yet. Lucky enough to lose a parent or sibling.

BTW, being that you've tested pretty much everywhere in the US, have you taken the BFD test? Guess the fact that they choose all residents (regardless of score) before non-residents makes those people lucky too and BFD a "failure of a department."

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Actually only said that about city and in reality most of us would have had the same score if it were not for those points so the insults calling me dumb or stupid need to be thrown aside. This test was made easy for everyone with the points being the main separator and that is why the team won't rise to the top unless they live in New York City. Also Buffalo DOES NOT allow anyone from outside the city limits to test. (Most departments that are having this issue are doing the same) Meaning if you don't live in Buffalo you cannot be offered a job. Personally after this test I'd be ok with that for the FDNY as well since really the only separation between hiring and not is those 5 points unlike previous test where it really was your score with the 5 points adjusting you're hiring position. It would stop candidates from across the country paying large sums of money for almost no chance in the first place.

Also more importantly this is the first time the FDNY is requiring a 1 year limit to prove residency. The kicker here folks, if you cannot and if they are as strict as they are saying then you will have some candidates be moved from hiring to being nowhere near this list. Unlike previous exams where it was 30 days, something that is easier to fraud, now you really need to have your records straight. This is going to be one of the biggest list movers and shakers actually.

Also I'm all for Veteran and Legacy credits, all for it!

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Originally Posted by Jukez

Seriously? Haha. You and the vulcans are starting to sound alike. Everyone here knew exactly what the test was all about and how much those extra points were going to make the difference. We all had access to the same study materials. Pretty much everyone that has been posting on this forum for a while now have decent list numbers if not some of the best list numbers except for you and a couple others. Obviously we saw something in the test you didn't. Go demand some transparency, while you do that I'll be waiting for my packet by the summer for the second time in 6 years.

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Insulting me does little to deter and only enthralls me more to get that transperancy for all of us. And hey best of luck.

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Originally Posted by TomFromQueens

How are you lucky to of lived in the city ? Everyone knew how important extra points were and the residency credits were the easiest way to get those points. Getting those points weren't luck, it's a personal choice. Each and every one of us has the option of moving to NYC and either we did or we didn't, it's not luck. And if you wanted this job bad enough you would have made the move. If a city environment isn't your place there are plenty of suburban neighborhoods within the 5 boroughs, Howard Beach, Whitestone, Bayside, Little Neck just to name a few. I agree with you this entire exam needs more transparency but saying that getting residency points is luck is just a cop out because you didn't want to move to the city.

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Tom if I could I would, problem here is I was a college student until recently, I just graduated with no job and in reality it would of been near impossible to move the year before into the city in order to get those points. Sure I knew that would be the difference the problem is that DCAS got what they wanted in that their preference for city residency is what got one hired over the other. Hey I'm still young so I always have one more chance and will take it, if I can live in the city or go the EMS route I will, but still want transperancy for this test and any other one after that I will always fight for both on the job and off it..

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Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600

(FYI, Bam DJ never even posted in the 6019 thread and from the looks of it, he never even took it. So much for doing the right thing by 6019).

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You're right. I double checked with him and I stand corrected on that.

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Originally Posted by DJ_Reverse

Actually only said that about city and in reality most of us would have had the same score if it were not for those points so the insults calling me dumb or stupid need to be thrown aside. This test was made easy for everyone with the points being the main separator and that is why the team won't rise to the top unless they live in New York City. Also Buffalo DOES NOT allow anyone from outside the city limits to test. (Most departments that are having this issue are doing the same) Meaning if you don't live in Buffalo you cannot be offered a job. Personally after this test I'd be ok with that for the FDNY as well since really the only separation between hiring and not is those 5 points unlike previous test where it really was your score with the 5 points adjusting you're hiring position. It would stop candidates from across the country paying large sums of money for almost no chance in the first place.

Also more importantly this is the first time the FDNY is requiring a 1 year limit to prove residency. The kicker here folks, if you cannot and if they are as strict as they are saying then you will have some candidates be moved from hiring to being nowhere near this list. Unlike previous exams where it was 30 days, something that is easier to fraud, now you really need to have your records straight. This is going to be one of the biggest list movers and shakers actually.

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I like the idea of a residency credit. Why should people come from out of the city where a lot of us with residency credit have lived all our life and take our good jobs. It shouldn't only be a year to prove it should be ten years in my opinion. We deserve to get ours.

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Originally Posted by GIMMEFIRE600

After saying there is a "template in place," you then say "in my opinion."

Which is it? Is it your opinion?

Or do you have proof?

You as well as anybody who knows anything about whats been going on, knows that one could easily argue this has been the most transparent process in the FDNY's history thus far solely due to the lawsuit. Everything you want to know about the entire process has been argued in court and is in numerous court documents. From bonus points to, age limits, to residency deadlines, testing sites, to scoring of examinations.

What more could you ask for? Its all in writing for all to see.

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It IS my opinion. I don't work for PSI, nor DCAS. Therefore I never will have proof.
But this test was by far the least transparent out of any other test that was administered for FDNY or any other department for which I ever tested for. And there were quite a few.
Whatever backroom dealings that were going on, we will never be privy to.

A test with more than one right answer is not definitive. Every other test that has been given for this department with the exception of the last two have had a definite right and wrong answer. WITH an answer key that showed EXACTLY what they were. Sure, you were able to go to the protest period and see what you got. But being given "partial credit" to a rhetorical question??? That is the issue.

The way this department will be molded because of this judge and this test is an atrocity to you, us and the people we serve. I'm with DJ, I'm not saying if you are offered the job to not take it. It's a slippery slope.

It's still the greatest job in the world. I just want to be able to make sure it stays that way. And that's what you all deserve: a transparent process that is fair to everyone based on MERIT.

PS: I came from out of state. No extra credit. I waited my turn and checked this forum constantly. I know exactly what you're going through when it comes to that.

So on a lighter note, anyone got any special plans for the weekend???

"Guys are worried that someone causing a stink and making accusations could lead to a hiring delay"

lol Thats how many people honestly feel...it just sounds funny wlhen laid out in writing.

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Originally Posted by john_smith1

I like the idea of a residency credit. Why should people come from out of the city where a lot of us with residency credit have lived all our life and take our good jobs. It shouldn't only be a year to prove it should be ten years in my opinion. We deserve to get ours.

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While I can see you're logic, makes more sense to then not allow anyone outside of it to take the test then. Another bigger issue is the number of bedroom communities that surround the city where former city residents live. Personally if the best of both worlds were to be combined, no residency credit but only a select few counties are allowed to test similarly to the NYPD exam.

Will this happen, no. But with the way this test was built, it wasn't a person's intelligence that was the main component with the lottery being your social. It was your location.

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Originally Posted by vekdoggs75

So on a lighter note, anyone got any special plans for the weekend???

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I've got a nice little Saturday planned, going to Home Depot.

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Originally Posted by HopefulFF

I've got a nice little Saturday planned, going to Home Depot.

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I'll be in AC....I'll try to have enough fun for the both of us.