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  1. #41
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So tell me how you effect final extinguishment and overhaul while staying out of the smoke?
    Even a booster will shoot water far enough that you don't have to get inside the car to put it out.

    If you find yourself in the smoke, say "white rabbit" 3 times fast. Didn't you learn anything in summer camp or were you the kid roasting marshmellows in the SCBA?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.


  2. #42
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Even a booster will shoot water far enough that you don't have to get inside the car to put it out.

    If you find yourself in the smoke, say "white rabbit" 3 times fast. Didn't you learn anything in summer camp or were you the kid roasting marshmellows in the SCBA?
    I understand that you don't want to take this seriously and that is cool I suppose. I will however continue to wear my SCBA as I am only a couple years away from retirement and cancer or some other horrible disease is not going to ruin my retirement because I can't be bothered to mask up.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  3. #43
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I understand that you don't want to take this seriously and that is cool I suppose. I will however continue to wear my SCBA as I am only a couple years away from retirement and cancer or some other horrible disease is not going to ruin my retirement because I can't be bothered to mask up.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.
    When I was a probie, some of the "old salts" gave me a ration of excremental matter because I masked up at car and dumpster fires.

    Sadly, many of them are gone due to cancer... and that was a lesson they taught that I will never forget.

    I thoroughly intend to get every penny I put into the pension system out of it...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #44
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp;
    I understand that you don't want to take this seriously and that is cool I suppose. I will however continue to wear my SCBA as I am only a couple years away from retirement and cancer or some other horrible disease is not going to ruin my retirement because I can't be bothered to mask up.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.
    Rightfully so. That is more of my point. I may or may not use it, may or may not wear a seatbelt, may or may not wear an NFPA compliant helmet.

    The point of the matter is none of those decisions will affect you or anyone else. Save the preaching for the pulpit.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  5. #45
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
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    Default Scba

    DeputyChiefGonzo.....You beat me to it. I've been yelled at in my early days by "The Old Heads" to get in there and fight the fire instead of donning my SCBA. Now they are all gone with most to Cancer.....To this day I tell all of our Firefighters to "Pack Up" so they can enjoy their retirement like I have....
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
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    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  6. #46
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Rightfully so. That is more of my point. I may or may not use it, may or may not wear a seatbelt, may or may not wear an NFPA compliant helmet.

    The point of the matter is none of those decisions will affect you or anyone else. Save the preaching for the pulpit.
    You are right in that it doesn't affect me one bit what you do. In fact I will go so far as to tell you I really couldn't care less what YOU do.

    But to me, the impression that you give that it is unnecessary to wear SCBA for a car fire, or a dumpster fire, is dangerous in today's world and every bit as wrong as some of the overzealous safety stuff that people rant at LA about. I believe we have a duty to teach those coming up the proper and safe way to do things and wearing an SCBA for a car fire is one of those things.

    I know you will find some way to attempt to ridicule my opinion, and you may call it preaching if you choose. Either way it doesn't bother me. I am not going to expose myself to toxic gasses, or teach others to expose themselves to toxic gasses because I am too lazy, or too cool, or too macho, or too old school, to wear proper PPE at an incident.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  7. #47
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp;
    You are right in that it doesn't affect me one bit what you do. In fact I will go so far as to tell you I really couldn't care less what YOU do.

    But to me, the impression that you give that it is unnecessary to wear SCBA for a car fire, or a dumpster fire, is dangerous in today's world and every bit as wrong as some of the overzealous safety stuff that people rant at LA about. I believe we have a duty to teach those coming up the proper and safe way to do things and wearing an SCBA for a car fire is one of those things.

    I know you will find some way to attempt to ridicule my opinion, and you may call it preaching if you choose. Either way it doesn't bother me. I am not going to expose myself to toxic gasses, or teach others to expose themselves to toxic gasses because I am too lazy, or too cool, or too macho, or too old school, to wear proper PPE at an incident.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.
    You guessed wrong. I am not ridiculing anyone. I answered the question - don't stand in the smoke and you don't need an SCBA. The same reason that engine drivers at house fires don't pack nor even don turnouts.

    Oh, and another answer to a previous question - hold your breath.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  8. #48
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You guessed wrong. I am not ridiculing anyone. I answered the question - don't stand in the smoke and you don't need an SCBA. The same reason that engine drivers at house fires don't pack nor even don turnouts.

    Oh, and another answer to a previous question - hold your breath.
    Are you an officer? I hope that you encourage the men under you to wear their masks.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  9. #49
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You guessed wrong. I am not ridiculing anyone. I answered the question - don't stand in the smoke and you don't need an SCBA. The same reason that engine drivers at house fires don't pack nor even don turnouts.

    Oh, and another answer to a previous question - hold your breath.
    So are you saying you don't overhaul car fires at all other than hydraulically at a distance? Because unless that is what you are saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to stay out of the smoke or toxic gases.

    I'll tell that to the MPO of the rig I am on that wished our Captain hadn't given his mask away at a mutual aid fire. Where he set the rig was smoke free until the wind changed. He blew black crap out of his nose and coughed up more for the rest of the shift.

    Hold your breath? Seriously?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  10. #50
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So are you saying you don't overhaul car fires at all other than hydraulically at a distance? Because unless that is what you are saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to stay out of the smoke or toxic gases.

    I'll tell that to the MPO of the rig I am on that wished our Captain hadn't given his mask away at a mutual aid fire. Where he set the rig was smoke free until the wind changed. He blew black crap out of his nose and coughed up more for the rest of the shift.

    Hold your breath? Seriously?
    See now what you do is get all your guys lined up, When the guy on the bale can't hold his breath any longer he hands it to the next guy.

    Which of course is holding his breath to.

    You can also put a fog tip on the deck gun so you can push the smoke away from the pump panel.

    J\K
    Bring enough hose.

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Why does there need to be a blanket policy? I see exactly what Memphis is saying.

    If you start out properly, upwind of the fire there is no need to wear an SCBA face piece and be on air. If the wind shifts and as you move in closer, take a breath and put your mask on. Wow. Common Sense.

    We all grip about blanket safety policy and this person is tying our hands, they don't let us use common sense...

    But here we are saying don't use common sense. There is no possible win. There MUST be two extremists in an argument/debate.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  12. #52
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    I think what is so hard for some of us to understand is the fact that there are no good reasons not to wear one. Plenty of reasons justifying why you need to, but the reasons on why not to are absent. Unless you count laziness. That's about all you can really say.
    Career Firefighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  13. #53
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I think what is so hard for some of us to understand is the fact that there are no good reasons not to wear one. Plenty of reasons justifying why you need to, but the reasons on why not to are absent. Unless you count laziness. That's about all you can really say.
    Like I said previously, add too cool, too macho, too old school, to too lazy, and you have all the bases covered.

    There is no logical reason for not wearing your SCBA.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  14. #54
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    I really can't understand how wearing a mask while working the nozzle at a car fire shouldn't be required.

    Rationalize it however you like, but it is just stupid.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  15. #55
    Forum Member DeputyMarshal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    I really can't understand how wearing a mask while working the nozzle at a car fire shouldn't be required.

    Rationalize it however you like, but it is just stupid.
    I'm with you on this one, Chief. This falls squarely into the list of "issues" that I can't believe we're even still debating in the modern fire service.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  16. #56
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Like I said previously, add too cool, too macho, too old school, to too lazy, and you have all the bases covered.

    There is no logical reason for not wearing your SCBA.
    Who is saying anything about being too lazy, old school or anything?

    Car fire, get out with the pack on. If you're upwind and standing off from the vehicle using the reach of the stream to knock down the initial fire, you're fine. As you approach put the mask on. Novel concept.

    By this theory of you MUST wear it, do you:

    Where the mask on air while in rehab after a fire because you're no further away from the smoke?

    Where the mask on air while stretching lines to the very front door while smoke is coming out?


    Literally NO ONE has said wear nothing and eat smoke while standing in the midst of the smoke. No one. All anyone has said was use your common sense.

    Complaint after complaint that the NFPA, OSHA this group the boogyman etc etc are taking away or ability to think. Yet here we are, when people say to use your common sense, we're "too lazy, too macho, too old school".
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  17. #57
    Forum Member Jonnee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Are you an officer? I hope that you encourage the men under you to wear their masks.
    He is a hard charger, p i s s er, leader that is in where the action it. Probably one of a very few that is!

  18. #58
    Forum Member snowball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnee View Post
    He is a hard charger, p i s s er, leader that is in where the action it. Probably one of a very few that is!
    He also gets more than three vehicle fires a year. I would trust his judgement.
    I doubt anyone here would go on air for a smoker.
    IAFF

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You guessed wrong. I am not ridiculing anyone. I answered the question - don't stand in the smoke and you don't need an SCBA. The same reason that engine drivers at house fires don't pack nor even don turnouts.

    Oh, and another answer to a previous question - hold your breath.
    Amen kind sir, amen.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  20. #60
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Again, I couldn't begin to pretend to care less whether some guy in Memphis, or Butt Hump Nevada, wears his mask. It has no effect on me personally at all. I wear my SCBA to fight car fires, dumpster fires, structure fires, and whenever else the situation dictates the need to. I am NOT going to risk the wind changing and the smoke and toxic gasses being blown over me at a stupid, it's junk anyways, nothing to save, car fire. Some have said put it out from a distance. ReallY? No overhaul? No investigation? RIGHT! You may feel your life isn't worth the time to put on the pack, I feel differently. Geezus, put the thing on your back on the rig, stretch the line and while it is being charged put on your mask. How hard is that? Pure damn laziness, too lazy to put it on, and then too lazy to swap the bottle out afterwards.

    Further, and I am fully aware that some of you will call me a Safety Sally, or a Nancy, or a pussy, or whatever other stupid insult you can muster, to try and shout me down. Sorry NO. To me your stance on not wearing an SCBA at a fire puts you in the same category as LA and some of his ridiculous ideas and policies. I refuse to teach my students and my firefighters to attack a car fire without COMPLETE PPE, including SCBA. There are too many variables that we can't control, like what is being transported in the car...pesticides, charcoal liughter fluid, paint or solvents, ammunition, and so much more, that can turn that "simple" car fire and one breath into a death sentence or a life altering, crippling, event. The other variable is the wind, either from nature, or from a semi passing the scene at 55 plus miles an hour.

    We will never agree on this because frankly you can't justify the risk of your position. It is that simple.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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