Like Tree365Likes

Thread: Philadelphia 2011

  1. #301
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    It's winter alright. You're gonna know it since I'm pretty sure the heat at both locations will be broken.... again.


    Bring a coat.
    Either that or the thermostats are broken and it will be 94 degrees inside.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  2. #302
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    9

    Default Mini academy

    I went to the mini academy today and found it very useful. Probably close to 1300 people there.

    A couple of notes from it...
    ~The list will last 2 years.
    ~They didn't have exact numbers for hiring, but expect to hire about 100 over the next calendar year.
    ~The first part, the TPM, will be a pass fail and then the WSI will determine the list. It will be divided into 4 bands.

    We went through the entire study guide and reviewed what to know in each section for the test.

    Study up fellas and ladies it's going to be tough.

  3. #303
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Did they explain the banding at all? Four bands implies a pretty broad grouping of scores.

  4. #304
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post

    Study up fellas and ladies it's going to be tough.
    Outstanding. The lawsuits will be filed by January.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  5. #305
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post
    We went through the entire study guide and reviewed what to know in each section for the test.

    I'm not gonna ask that you go over what they said in general. But can I ask if anything was mentioned about memorizing the salaries down to the cent of every rank including inspector? And the hourly wages by median percentages etc? That part of the booklet goes in my eyes and out the back of my head...

  6. #306
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    206

    Default

    I don't understand the point of banding, seems like something fishy?

  7. #307
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Philly
    Posts
    389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    (snipped)
    Wear something that is comfortable, not FD attire, so you will be relaxed as it is winter in Philly and the heat in the building will be kicking!
    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    It's winter alright. You're gonna know it since I'm pretty sure the heat at both locations will be broken.... again.


    Bring a coat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Either that or the thermostats are broken and it will be 94 degrees inside.
    All of the above. Wear layers, you can add on/take off as needed to suit yourself. One room might be 94*, the room next door might be 64*. The School District's maintenance aren't any better than Public Property...

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Outstanding. The lawsuits will be filed by January.
    If the scores are done, I'd be surprised if it takes that long. I KNOW they've already been contacted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyboyfire View Post
    I don't understand the point of banding, seems like something fishy?
    BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!! This is a joke, right?
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

  8. #308
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyboyfire View Post
    I don't understand the point of banding, seems like something fishy?
    Ya THINK??????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  9. #309
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post
    I went to the mini academy today and found it very useful. Probably close to 1300 people there.

    A couple of notes from it...
    ~The list will last 2 years.
    ~They didn't have exact numbers for hiring, but expect to hire about 100 over the next calendar year.
    ~The first part, the TPM, will be a pass fail and then the WSI will determine the list. It will be divided into 4 bands.
    Thanks for the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post
    We went through the entire study guide and reviewed what to know in each section for the test.

    Study up fellas and ladies it's going to be tough.
    If it's pass/fail, how tough can it be, really?

  10. #310
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    Thanks for the info.



    If it's pass/fail, how tough can it be, really?

    Well even though the first part of the test is covering fire service information, it's information based off of the study guide they gave us. And only from that study guide. So even if it's wrong, it's RIGHT for this test only. Once you take the test, forget everything in the study guide. They gave a good example at the mini academy that this test could be based on anything (i.e. vegetarian cuisine, the art of bonsai pruning), it's just testing that you can read, retain and regurgitate the knowledge from the packet. Much like you will have to do in the academy on classroom tests.

    With that said, there are some very specific things you need to know that are in that study guide, for example, hourly/annually salaries of ranks, the SOPs of the fire department that is in the study guide (including the bereavement policy, vacation, Class B policy, etc).

    In short, there are specific things they could put on the test that you will ONLY know if you read this booklet.

  11. #311
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    863

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post
    Well even though the first part of the test is covering fire service information, it's information based off of the study guide they gave us. And only from that study guide. So even if it's wrong, it's RIGHT for this test only. Once you take the test, forget everything in the study guide. They gave a good example at the mini academy that this test could be based on anything (i.e. vegetarian cuisine, the art of bonsai pruning), it's just testing that you can read, retain and regurgitate the knowledge from the packet. Much like you will have to do in the academy on classroom tests.

    With that said, there are some very specific things you need to know that are in that study guide, for example, hourly/annually salaries of ranks, the SOPs of the fire department that is in the study guide (including the bereavement policy, vacation, Class B policy, etc).

    In short, there are specific things they could put on the test that you will ONLY know if you read this booklet.



    I guess that answers my earlier question...



    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner09 View Post
    I'm not gonna ask that you go over what they said in general. But can I ask if anything was mentioned about memorizing the salaries down to the cent of every rank including inspector? And the hourly wages by median percentages etc? That part of the booklet goes in my eyes and out the back of my head...

  12. #312
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Regarding the (4) bands will scores be randomized within A/B/C/D. For example if you score a 98 and are placed in band A, could someone with an 88 say be placed in band A and hired first? When I asked the woman at the mini-academy she said the only part that would be randomized would be in the case of people having the same score, a tie-breaker. Does anyone else have info on this?

  13. #313
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyboyfire View Post
    Regarding the (4) bands will scores be randomized within A/B/C/D. For example if you score a 98 and are placed in band A, could someone with an 88 say be placed in band A and hired first? When I asked the woman at the mini-academy she said the only part that would be randomized would be in the case of people having the same score, a tie-breaker. Does anyone else have info on this?
    The impression I got from the woman was the first part of the test is pass/fail. The second part of the test is what is going to be banded and the second part seems like it is a personality test.
    Last edited by Stogie81; 11-09-2011 at 08:52 AM.

  14. #314
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Yes, I knew the study guide section is pass/fail and the passing cutoff will not be announced until after the test is given. The woman told me the only point of the 4 bands was for notification. For example all of band A would receive the notice together for medical, interview, fingerprints, etc. I didn't know if shes was being all truthful though. Thanks. Anyone with info?

  15. #315
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Yeah. The Work Style Inventory (2nd part of the test) is what they are ranking us on. The first part will be Pass/Fail. She also said that those with extra points i.e. military and certifications will not have them added to the Pass/Fail section, but rather the Work Style Inventory. She said that the WSI will be 85 questions with only four answers to choose from 1) Agree Strongly 2) Agree Somewhat 3) Disagree Somewhat 4) Disagree Strongly. It's supposed determine the style in which you will work.

    The whole thing sounded fishy. I don't know how exactly they can assign a number grade to a personality test. And it must be a number grade, because how else would they rank us and also add points for military?

    Someone also asked if what would happen if people got the same score. To which someone from H.R. answered for her with "Random Number". Which seems absurd, especially since they could easily go to the first part of the test for a fair tiebreaker. The way it was presented..... They are going to just pick who they want.

  16. #316
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upsidedown View Post
    Yeah. The Work Style Inventory (2nd part of the test) is what they are ranking us on. The first part will be Pass/Fail. She also said that those with extra points i.e. military and certifications will not have them added to the Pass/Fail section, but rather the Work Style Inventory. She said that the WSI will be 85 questions with only four answers to choose from 1) Agree Strongly 2) Agree Somewhat 3) Disagree Somewhat 4) Disagree Strongly. It's supposed determine the style in which you will work.

    The whole thing sounded fishy. I don't know how exactly they can assign a number grade to a personality test. And it must be a number grade, because how else would they rank us and also add points for military?

    Someone also asked if what would happen if people got the same score. To which someone from H.R. answered for her with "Random Number". Which seems absurd, especially since they could easily go to the first part of the test for a fair tiebreaker. The way it was presented..... They are going to just pick who they want.
    Upsidedown,

    Thanks for relaying the information.

    Random Number? What does that mean? Didn't anybody ask? (I'm coming from out of state).

    Also, while I agree the test itself is a little backwards; and while I realize most east coast testing/hiring is off an eligibility list to be chosen from in rank order (usually); I also think it is of the discretion of Philly Fire to indeed "pick who they want", as it is with most any FD or any other employer looking to hire, no? I mean, where I come from, you have to jump through A LOT more hoops to be considered for hiring, and you can have certs and qualifications up the whazoo, but, in the end, the department "picks who they want."

    Isn't that how it works most places?

    It seems like this WSI is almost like a really lame interview... on paper.

  17. #317
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Oh, sorry I didn't clarify. "Random Number" means a number picked at random. It can be used to determine an order or break ties. So if you and I get the same WSI score, they will assign us a random number to determine who will go ahead of the other on the list. Good luck on the test.
    Last edited by Upsidedown; 11-10-2011 at 01:25 PM.

  18. #318
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    Isn't that how it works most places?
    Any municipality that is obligated by state or local law to hire under the Civil Service Act must hire according to the eligibility list while at the same time must adhere to any court-ordered hiring mandates such as the recently abolished minority hiring clause (dissolved by the Philadelphia courts in February 2010.)

    If you are on a civil service eligibility list, and they come to your number and there is nothing preventing them from bypassing you, they must by law tap you for a job offer. They must have a damn good reason for NOT offering you a position and they have to document why you were bypassed.

    Despite what others in here have said about nepotism, it doesnt happen in today's computer controlled and tightly administered/audited world. Not saying that the nepostism might not come into play once you are on the job.....
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  19. #319
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Upsidedown View Post
    Oh, sorry I didn't clarify. "Random Number" means a number picked at random. It can be used to determine an order or break ties. So if you and I get the same WSI score, they will assign us a random number to determine who will go ahead of the other on the list. Good luck on the test.
    Gotchya. Good luck to you as well, and thanks again for the info.

    I can't believe the city would actually choose a random, meaningless number as the deciding factor of a tie breaker over the actual evidence of a test score (TPM)... That just baffles me...

  20. #320
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    Gotchya. Good luck to you as well, and thanks again for the info.

    I can't believe the city would actually choose a random, meaningless number as the deciding factor of a tie breaker over the actual evidence of a test score (TPM)... That just baffles me...
    In the past, it was written into civil service regulations that ties would be decided in favor of whomever filed their application earlier.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  21. #321
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Everyone in the band is going to be considered equal right? If I score a 100 on the WSI and someone else scores a 90 and we are both placed into the same band, in the eyes of the testing agency we are equal (both band 1). So, are the extra points added before people are banded or after? If the points are added after the banding, then it would basically be impossible to get hired unless you are receiving points. Without points, someone would simply be band 1. With points, someone would be band 1 plus 3/5/10/or15.

  22. #322
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    206

    Default

    CraigC...thats exactly what I am trying to get an answer to. I am a vet and an EMT, that should give me 13 points if I'm not mistaken. So If 85 and above go in band A say (just an example) would someone that scored in the low end of band A be potentially placed on the list above someone who scored higher than them in the WSI section. I went over to the woman from the company she said no it will be in rank order...and the point of the bands was for notification ie, ora,l fingerprints, medical. She said that band A as a group would be notified, that seemed real fishy to me. I tried reaching out to the company to no avail. Thanks for any info...at this point I'm just going to study, the bands our out of our hands.

  23. #323
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Thanks Andy.
    I have one other question about the WSI for people who attended the mini-academy (I wasn't able to make it). A buddy of mine that went said the lady specifically said not to choose strongly agree/strongly disagree for all of the questions. Of the 4 answers 1 would give you 4 pts, another 2 pts, another -2, and the last -4(for some questions either simply agree or disagree would score the highest). I have heard before to choose strongly one way or another to show decisiveness. I'm just wondering if my friend heard this correctly. Any clarification would be appreciated.

  24. #324
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craigc View Post
    Thanks Andy.
    I have one other question about the WSI for people who attended the mini-academy (I wasn't able to make it). A buddy of mine that went said the lady specifically said not to choose strongly agree/strongly disagree for all of the questions. Of the 4 answers 1 would give you 4 pts, another 2 pts, another -2, and the last -4(for some questions either simply agree or disagree would score the highest). I have heard before to choose strongly one way or another to show decisiveness. I'm just wondering if my friend heard this correctly. Any clarification would be appreciated.
    What she said basically was don't hug the middle thinking that it is the safe bet.

  25. #325
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by craigc View Post
    Thanks Andy.
    I have one other question about the WSI for people who attended the mini-academy (I wasn't able to make it). A buddy of mine that went said the lady specifically said not to choose strongly agree/strongly disagree for all of the questions. Of the 4 answers 1 would give you 4 pts, another 2 pts, another -2, and the last -4(for some questions either simply agree or disagree would score the highest). I have heard before to choose strongly one way or another to show decisiveness. I'm just wondering if my friend heard this correctly. Any clarification would be appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stogie81 View Post
    What she said basically was don't hug the middle thinking that it is the safe bet.
    krikey, I gotta stop reading these forums until after the test!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 12-11-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-17-2005, 07:23 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 11-30-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-02-2005, 09:49 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 11-23-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-24-2005, 08:04 AM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 11-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-18-2005, 06:57 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 11-12-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-14-2005, 07:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register