Philadelphia 2011

[Stogie81]

i know a few guys that went last night and said it was very helpful, hope to get down next week to help out

Oh yeah it was good.

[CaptOldTimer]

Make sure it's west of Philly and NOT West Philly!

My mistake, I should have spelled it out more. Maybe Berwyn, Radnor or King of Prussia and not West Philly.

CFD8 Fly up guy, snow isn't nothing until mid winter. Besides they have lots of equipment to move the snow off runways and the highways too!!

They are prepared for it.

You'll be beat as heck driving up I-95 from Charleston to Philly! Not a peice of cake, even for those which are use to it.

[RQRandy]

Any educated guess when the PM exam would start?

[Fixxer]

Just a guess, but probably 9 am for the morning session and 1 or 1:30 for the pm.

[philly10]

An interesting PowerPoint from FPSI on Hiring the Most Qualified Firefighters .... While Avoiding (And Defending) Lawsuits.

FPSI is the company the City has contracted with to administer this hiring test.


pg 20 thru pg 36 in the power point presentation looks like some of the WSI (Work Style Inventory) stuff.....assessing individuals and how they will behave.

It repeatedly talks of manipulation.

It talks about KSAPC s (Knowledge, Skills, Ability, Personal Characteristics (Physical Requirements), discussing them as to whether they can be used, required or circumvented.

Some examples from the slide show...

Page 25
Using test scores
Ranking...assumes one applicant is reliably more qualified than the other.
Banding...considers the unreliability of the test battery and "ties" applicants.
Pass/fail cutoffs...treat all applicants as either "qualified" or "not qualified".

Page 26
Pass/Fail cutoffs
Some major considerations:
Not advised:
*Using an arbitrary cutoff (e.g., 70%)
*Using applicant scores to benchmark (e.g., setting cutoff scores at mean-SD of applicant scores)
Advised:
*Consider "Normal expectations of acceptable proficiency in the workplace"....usually requires SME-level (Subject Matter Expert) data or ratings
#Applicants that can be feasibly processed
Consider:
*Is the test supported by content validity information or criterion-related information ?
*How critical are the KSAs (Knowledge, Skill, Ability) measured ?
*Does the test measure "baseline" or "differentiating" KSAs ?
*How would current incumbents perform on this test ?
They talk of 'cognitive' and 'personality' scores.

Page 27
Using Test Scores
*Tests can be used on a pass/fail basis to ensure that candidates possess the minimum competency levels needed for the job.
*Tests can be used in a ranked fashion whereby criterion-related validity evidence supports that higher test performance statistically predicts better job performance (or content validity can also be used
*Tests can be used by weighting/combining multiple test scores whereby a "compensatory" or combined score is used.
*Banding is a recommended "balanced" solution because it uses the test results in ways that are supportable by the tests themselves.


Page 32
Steps for Weighting Tests Using Content Validity Methods
1. Select a panel of 4-12 Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) who are truly experts in the content and "functional areas" of the target position. Ensure diversity on the panel.
2. Provide a copy of the Job Analysis for each SME. Be sure that the Job Analysis itemizes the various job duties and KSAPCs that are important or critical to the job.
3. Provide each SME with a copy of each test (or a highly detailed description of the content of the test if confidentiality issues prohibit SMEs from viewing the actual test).
4. Explain the confidential nature of the workshop, the overall goals and outcomes, and ask the SMEs to sign confidentiality agreements.
5. Discuss and review with SMEs the content of each test and the KSAPCs measured by each. Also discuss the extent to which certain test may be better measures of certain KSAPCs than others. Factors such as the vulnerability of certai tests to fraud reliability issues and others should be discussed.
6. Provide a survey to the SMEs that asks them to distribute 100 points among the tests that will be combined. Be sure that they consider the importance levels of the KSAPCs measured by the tests, and the job duties to which they are linked, when completing this step.
7. Detect and remove outlier SMEs from the data set.
8. Calculate the average weight for each test. These averages are the weights to use when combining the test into a composite score.


Page 33
Standardizing Scores
Before individual test scores can be weighted and combined, they should be standard scored. This process normalizes the scores and is a necessary step to place different tests on a level playing field.
Standardizing test scores is simple:
-Convert the raw scores into Z scores by subtracting each applicant's score from the average (mean) score of all applicants and dividing this value by the standard deviation (of all applicant total scores).
-Multiply the Z scores by the respective weights of the test companies and a final score for each applicant can then be calculated.
They talk of 'cognitive' and 'personality' scores. (Is that Work Style Inventory terminology ?)

These are a few of the pages.

Just look at the convoluted language, the mathematical manipulation, and the overall mission of this company and it's process.
They want to throw out the entire concept of competitiveness.
Intelligence requirements have been relegated to a yet to be determined "minimum" level that completely dismisses/ignores all of the educational effort candidates have strived for their entire life.

Standards aren't just being lowered. They're being thrown out.

This is the goal in the hiring process ????

[Andyboyfire]

Hey all. I was just wondering how long the study sessions at the Union Hall run? I am trying to make it down for a few but I work night shifts and am traveling a distance. Are they 1-2 hours? Thanks.

[Stogie81]

Hey all. I was just wondering how long the study sessions at the Union Hall run? I am trying to make it down for a few but I work night shifts and am traveling a distance. Are they 1-2 hours? Thanks.

I went to the first night and it was 6-7:45ish

[RKB1972]

Not sure, good luck though

[craigc]

Does anyone have any info on the Work Styles Inventory (WSI) section of the test?

[philly10]

Does anyone have any info on the Work Styles Inventory (WSI) section of the test?

why don't you look back through this thread or google it?

[MFES]

Standards aren't just being lowered. They're being thrown out.

This is the goal in the hiring process ????

I was reading the same PowerPoint that you referenced. The introductory paragraph lists two goals, and neither of them is to hire qualified individuals:

"This document includes the key strategies your fire department will need to stay EEO litigation free and maintain a balanced workforce. These two goals - reducing litigation and achieving a diverse workforce - are also related goals because departments that have proactive planes to build a diverse workforce also tend to be involved in fewer lawsuits."

It's so shameless and transparent it's outrageous.

[unbroken136]

Check your email folks, finally got the official invite to the written...

Exam drops at 1330 , Philadelphia High School for Girls.

[runner32]

Anybody else coming from pretty far away? I was thinking of maybe making a staright shot and heading straight to the test location as I'll be working friday and with an 8 hour drive, I'm not sure if there would even be time to get a hotel prior to the test. With limited parking it could be hectic come test day. It is interesting they are having the test the same weekend as the marathon that will probably have several thousand runners coming into town friday and saturday afternoon. So for those stayin in a hotel, it's probably a good idea to start on that asap

[bigandy]

Got my invite. Central High School at 13:30.

[FFG123]

Got my invite. Central High School at 13:30.

Same place and same time here!! Wonder how many people are going to show up...Hope its not like the 66k FDNY has ha

[FWDbuff]

Anybody else coming from pretty far away? I was thinking of maybe making a staright shot and heading straight to the test location as I'll be working friday and with an 8 hour drive, I'm not sure if there would even be time to get a hotel prior to the test. With limited parking it could be hectic come test day. It is interesting they are having the test the same weekend as the marathon that will probably have several thousand runners coming into town friday and saturday afternoon. So for those stayin in a hotel, it's probably a good idea to start on that asap

Not a good idea. First rule of test taking- be well-rested. You'll be falling asleep by question 14 if you drive 8 hours prior to the test. If you really want to be a Philly FF, take friday off. Drive out at a leisurely pace, and get a hotel room. Clear out the hotel room by 1130 saturday, take the test, and drive right home.

[mrpita]

Just be advised, there are 2 test sessions, morning and afternoon. Check your notices carefully.

[Stogie81]

Just be advised, there are 2 test sessions, morning and afternoon. Check your notices carefully.

Philadelphia High School for Girls 0830.

[FWDbuff]

Just be advised, there are 2 test sessions, morning and afternoon. Check your notices carefully.

Good point Pita. And to expand further on what I said.....I bet most of the guys on here have taken other FD tests before or at least have studied some kind of test-taking prep manuals. Every one I have ever read always says the same thing: To successfully take a test, you need to be well rested.

Guys coming in from out of town should get a hotel room, and also understand this is NOT the night to hang out in the bar in the lobby of the hotel until 0200. This is NOT the night to tie one on. This is NOT the night to explore the City's red light district. This is NOT the night to find a club. You are here to take a test. Get in bed by a decent hour, and get a full night's sleep. You getting a job depends on it.

Also, some guys may be lured to accepting offers of sleeping and riding along at firehouses. While I dont see this happening too much in Philly, you never know......Don't be attracted to this. It is NOT what you want to do. Politely thank the offerer and ask for a raincheck on the ride along. We all know there are many distractions in firehouses, especially strange ones, that can constantly wake you up and detract from a restful night. I made the mistake of accepting a bed with Hartford, Ct Rescue 1 about 20 years ago....And didn't sleep the entire night. And paid for it with heavy eyes during the test the next day.

Get into Philly early on Friday. Get your hotel room. Study maps to the test site, or even make the drive. Wake up early enough, have a light breakfast, and report to your test location EARLY. VOID YOUR BLADDER BEFORE THE TEST BEGINS. Every time I have ever taken a Philly test, there is always PLENTY of time to **** before you get to the assigned classroom. The last thing you want to do is to have to get up in the middle of the test. Of course with this new test thing, who knows what is going to happen.

[CaptOldTimer]

Good point Pita. And to expand further on what I said.....I bet most of the guys on here have taken other FD tests before or at least have studied some kind of test-taking prep manuals. Every one I have ever read always says the same thing: To successfully take a test, you need to be well rested.

Guys coming in from out of town should get a hotel room, and also understand this is NOT the night to hang out in the bar in the lobby of the hotel until 0200. This is NOT the night to tie one on. This is NOT the night to explore the City's red light district. This is NOT the night to find a club. You are here to take a test. Get in bed by a decent hour, and get a full night's sleep. You getting a job depends on it.

Also, some guys may be lured to accepting offers of sleeping and riding along at firehouses. While I dont see this happening too much in Philly, you never know......Don't be attracted to this. It is NOT what you want to do. Politely thank the offerer and ask for a raincheck on the ride along. We all know there are many distractions in firehouses, especially strange ones, that can constantly wake you up and detract from a restful night. I made the mistake of accepting a bed with Hartford, Ct Rescue 1 about 20 years ago....And didn't sleep the entire night. And paid for it with heavy eyes during the test the next day.

Get into Philly early on Friday. Get your hotel room. Study maps to the test site, or even make the drive. Wake up early enough, have a light breakfast, and report to your test location EARLY. VOID YOUR BLADDER BEFORE THE TEST BEGINS. Every time I have ever taken a Philly test, there is always PLENTY of time to **** before you get to the assigned classroom. The last thing you want to do is to have to get up in the middle of the test. Of course with this new test thing, who knows what is going to happen.

To add what he said and it was good. In my city, you do not get up and go take a leak during the test. If you get up, before you have finished the test to leave the room, you have finished! Keep on going as you will not be allowed to return in the test area once you walk out the door to go to the head!

Also avoid any caffeine or adult beverages as well as the TV and computer, the night before. You want the get a good 8 hours of restful sleep the night before.

Wear something that is comfortable, not FD attire, so you will be relaxed as it is winter in Philly and the heat in the building will be kicking!