Philadelphia 2011

[FWDbuff]

Anyways, hope your satisfied with my answer, Buff. If you, or anyone else have any personal questions (because I'm pretty sure I can't answer any questions, in regards to the test), then ask away.

I hope that you use your own merit and hard work to get hired, not the race card. Good luck to you!

[SVandro]

........................

[BigGuyPhilly]

Get the facts straight. You don't get ANY points for being a resident, it is more or less a tie breaker.

PREFERENCE FOR PHILADELPHIA RESIDENTS: Candidates who have maintained a bona fide residence in Philadelphia for at least one year prior to the date of the civil service examination shall have priority over all other persons receiving an identical test score.

To receive such preference, candidates must respond to the question regarding residence when they appear to take the examination and to the supplemental question regarding residence later in this form.

If candidates are required to appear to compete in an examination, the response on that day will be used to determine eligibility for preference for residents.

If the examination is a training and experience evaluation, the response on this application will be used to determine eligibility for preference for residents.

If an applicant does not respond to the appropriate residence question, it will be assumed that the applicant does not qualify for residence preference. Eligibility for residence preference must be determined by the date of the test administration. No requests for residence preference will be granted after the test administration.

Using the preference for residents, I will be very surprised if any non-residents will be hired.

Let me explain.

The first test (based upon the booklet) is pass/fail. If one passed that test, then the Work Styles Inventory test (the second part of the test) is marked.

According to Fire Selection Inc.'s website:
The WSI is a 40-minute paper-and-pencil examination, and is recommended that it be combined with other written tests. If the WSI is used in combination with other written firefighter tests, weights can be created based on the score achieved on the test. If the WSI is not combined with other written tests, the WSI can be used to create band scores of applicants who pass an initial written test.

Well, the WSI was not combined with other written tests. Therefore, band scores of applicants will be created.

It was stated at the mini-academy that four (4) bands of scores would be produced. Since approximately 16,000 applicants were sent emails to appear for the test, say for argument sake that 12,000 showed up, and 8,000 passed the initial test. That would create bands of approximately 2,000 people each.

In other words, say that the upper band was from the top mark (possibly 130 - 10 points for veterans preferance, 10 points for being a Philadelphia Fire Dept. paramedic, 5 points for FF1 and 5 points for EMT, coupled with a perfect score) to say, a 90. Everyone that scored in that range would be considered tied.

Since all Philadelphia residents get preference in a tie, they would go to the top of that band. The other tie-breaking method is a so-called computer generated "random number". So all Philadelphia residents would be selected via random number. When all Philadelphia residents in the top band are selected, non-Philadelphia residents would be selected via random number.

Some way to hire for a fire department, wouldn't you say?

Start getting the lawsuits organized.

[BIG-B]

well i think i got my questions answered, i hope.. now i just hope i get that big much awaited interview, good luck to everyone else too!

[philly10]

Using the preference for residents, I will be very surprised if any non-residents will be hired.

Let me explain.

The first test (based upon the booklet) is pass/fail. If one passed that test, then the Work Styles Inventory test (the second part of the test) is marked.

According to Fire Selection Inc.'s website:
The WSI is a 40-minute paper-and-pencil examination, and is recommended that it be combined with other written tests. If the WSI is used in combination with other written firefighter tests, weights can be created based on the score achieved on the test. If the WSI is not combined with other written tests, the WSI can be used to create band scores of applicants who pass an initial written test.

Well, the WSI was not combined with other written tests. Therefore, band scores of applicants will be created.

It was stated at the mini-academy that four (4) bands of scores would be produced. Since approximately 16,000 applicants were sent emails to appear for the test, say for argument sake that 12,000 showed up, and 8,000 passed the initial test. That would create bands of approximately 2,000 people each.

In other words, say that the upper band was from the top mark (possibly 130 - 10 points for veterans preferance, 10 points for being a Philadelphia Fire Dept. paramedic, 5 points for FF1 and 5 points for EMT, coupled with a perfect score) to say, a 90. Everyone that scored in that range would be considered tied.

Since all Philadelphia residents get preference in a tie, they would go to the top of that band. The other tie-breaking method is a so-called computer generated "random number". So all Philadelphia residents would be selected via random number. When all Philadelphia residents in the top band are selected, non-Philadelphia residents would be selected via random number.

Some way to hire for a fire department, wouldn't you say?

Start getting the lawsuits organized.

they may not be banding ppl that way since the WSI part of the test is basicly a personality test they may be putting bands together based on that so if you have a 99 from the written and someone has a 70 you may be in the same band do to the fact that you both like action movies as was one of the ?'s

[BigGuyPhilly]

they may not be banding ppl that way since the WSI part of the test is basicly a personality test they may be putting bands together based on that so if you have a 99 from the written and someone has a 70 you may be in the same band do to the fact that you both like action movies as was one of the ?'s

The Test Preparation Manual (TPM) Test is PASS/FAIL only. It is not used or combined with the WSI test to determine one's score.

The Work Styles Inventory (WSI) Test that you refer to as a personality test IS scored. If the WSI is not combined with other written tests (as is the case here), the WSI can be used to create band scores of applicants who pass an initial written test.

Unfortunately, it is what it is - Not what you want it to be.

[hemsparamedic]

Where was THIS in the basement? And how do you know who was who? I saw a small table manned by three ladies accepting and denying certs. They were denying nationally accredited FF certs because they were not specifically PA certified certs---telling guys "I only know that it should say PA certified so I can't accept it."

Nevertheless, I handed in my PA EMT cert and they were like, "ok thanks, bye"... no confirmation, no type of receipt .... I guess I can only hope it shows come results time.

Yeah sam I was in the same basement as you. Here is how I came to my hypothosis. I saw a couple of the same people in the basement who were coordinating the operation on my floor as we were filing in the door. Those same people were in the basement, not in the classrooms. (i finished my test in 1/2 hour) I only assume that they were the HMFIC of the test. The little black dude in the red sweater with the walkie, was the coordinator for this job (FF) classification. I asked him who he was....and asking people who they are instead of assuming there were just "3 old ladies" .....one of those old ladies could be the chief administrative asisstant for PFD or the manager of HR. You never know.

The potential testing of 15,000 people is a big operation to coordinate with just bottom ladder 2 year tenured personnel. There were high ranking bosses there dude, no question about that.

As for the collection of certs and no confirmation. I agree that's was a little sketchy, but I assume at some point during the process, before the academy, they will check your original hard copy certs for valididty. I think we already have the credits applied tentatively just from the application, but not officially ranked. Official acceptance and is dependent and held until the PFD background check is complete. They assume people lie on applications so maybe this is an honesty check. Candidates are always lost during background checks, it's the way of public safety sector jobs.

[hemsparamedic]

my first ? is why do you keep saying that you took the test on "Sunday" I didn't think that there was any testing on sundy. Second yes you do get put into the squad rotation right away but you are not allowed to drive until you are qualified you should begin driver training right away on the engine DPOP and on the ladder TILLER also there are no FF paramedics in the city once you cross over you are no longer considered a medic and are only allowed to provide BLS care so i would check your source on those previouse statements

OK good to know i meant saturday the 19th....I am a retard.

on the second dis' I know that paramedics don;t provide ALS intervention while working on fire supression units. I should have been more clear. however with all do respect, PFD does have FF paramedics. Once you clear probation you can work OT on an ALS/medic bus..correct>? so if one is working as a FF and as paramedic for the same FIRE department, doesn't that make that employee a FF PM? In addition I was under the impression that the level of EMT certification is also printed and displayed on most uniform items either by name plate or patch or helmet sticker. Maybe not FF PM by specific duty assignment but FF or PM by specific duty and by title on PFD uniform.

[hemsparamedic]

If ALL you guys dont organize and file a lawsuit, you are all a bunch of pansies.

You know what? you come accross on this thing (almost the same way on every board and discussion you put your 2 cents in on) as giant dooshe bag, lawsuit happy, union highbred and you should really stop trying to play the big tough bad-a@# Philly firefighter. You seem to have a problem with the city operations and the fire department administration. You are probably the farthest thing from a tough guy because you whine so much. I have know doubt you try to stir up lawsuits and class action suits so you can sit back and watch people sweat and be miserable so you can feel good about yourself. It's obvious you have a hard-on for everyone that might conflict with your opinion. It's also obvious you have an issue with EMS. So all I can say is quit being a D(ck because some day you may need that [as you put it] "paramagician beast" and it may be me about to stick a 14 gauge EJ in your neck to replace some of the fluids you lost after getting a philly style-tune-up from one of these people/city departments/social demographics/or races you talk so much sh&T about...

And face facts FF tough guy :fire supression does't bring in alot of money nor does it generate the statistics it once did...EMS jobs account for roughly 70% of total PFD runs. EMS also generates revenue for the city in much greater capacity then the fire side. you get paid by the city. It's simple logic homeboy. You are as blind as you are brain washed if you don;t think EMS statistics are preventing more brownouts and station closures then there already are. EMS and paramedics have probably saved your job (and most definitely pay scale) and will no doubt someday save your A#$ when you get knocked the F out. so show some respect. My guess is you run your mouth behind a screen name because you are a miserable crusty old man that loves to stir the pot but doesn't have the nads to come out from behind the keyboard. Don't call me a pansie without having the Vig to back it up.

[philly10]

OK good to know i meant saturday the 19th....I am a retard.

on the second dis' I know that paramedics don;t provide ALS intervention while working on fire supression units. I should have been more clear. however with all do respect, PFD does have FF paramedics. Once you clear probation you can work OT on an ALS/medic bus..correct>? so if one is working as a FF and as paramedic for the same FIRE department, doesn't that make that employee a FF PM? In addition I was under the impression that the level of EMT certification is also printed and displayed on most uniform items either by name plate or patch or helmet sticker.

no there are not FF paramedics once you cross over to the fire side you are no longer classifed as a medic any overtime in the squad is BLS only so that does not make anyone a FF medic. As for the name plate only medics have the star of life on their collars and they have blue helmets FF do not have any classification on thier uniform accept for company and name but there is an EMS sticker that goes on the helmets but not every EMT puts them on so with all do respect you are wrong

[hemsparamedic]

no there are not FF paramedics once you cross over to the fire side you are no longer classifed as a medic any overtime in the squad is BLS only so that does not make anyone a FF medic. As for the name plate only medics have the star of life on their collars and they have blue helmets FF do not have any classification on thier uniform accept for company and name but there is an EMS sticker that goes on the helmets but not every EMT puts them on so with all do respect you are wrong

roger that. thanks for the clarification. i was told that paramedics can work on ALS squad as part of overtime as long as they have cleared medical command in philly. but ok

[hemsparamedic]

If you maintain your medic, you can work at outside employment as a paramedic. Philly medics who cross over to the fire side have to maintain EMT and work on BLS squads. Once they become firefighters they LOSE medical command with the city of Phila and CAN NOT operate in that function while on duty. THERE IS NO SUCH RANK AS FF/PM.

Like I said before, anyone can work outside employment as a medic, nurse, or even a doctor. No matter what your level of EMS training, as a firefighter you are only allowed to operate on duty as an EMT.

thank you for the info i appreciate your time. glad i have a better understanding. by-the-by do you have any doctors in the ranks?

[Andyboyfire]

Is anyone really sure how this banding thing will work...all I hear i rumors?

[FWDbuff]

You know what? you come accross on this thing (almost the same way on every board and discussion you put your 2 cents in on) as giant dooshe bag, lawsuit happy, union highbred and you should really stop trying to play the big tough bad-a@# Philly firefighter. You seem to have a problem with the city operations and the fire department administration. You are probably the farthest thing from a tough guy because you whine so much. I have know doubt you try to stir up lawsuits and class action suits so you can sit back and watch people sweat and be miserable so you can feel good about yourself. It's obvious you have a hard-on for everyone that might conflict with your opinion. It's also obvious you have an issue with EMS. So all I can say is quit being a D(ck because some day you may need that [as you put it] "paramagician beast" and it may be me about to stick a 14 gauge EJ in your neck to replace some of the fluids you lost after getting a philly style-tune-up from one of these people/city departments/social demographics/or races you talk so much sh&T about...

And face facts FF tough guy :fire supression does't bring in alot of money nor does it generate the statistics it once did...EMS jobs account for roughly 70% of total PFD runs. EMS also generates revenue for the city in much greater capacity then the fire side. you get paid by the city. It's simple logic homeboy. You are as blind as you are brain washed if you don;t think EMS statistics are preventing more brownouts and station closures then there already are. EMS and paramedics have probably saved your job (and most definitely pay scale) and will no doubt someday save your A#$ when you get knocked the F out. so show some respect. My guess is you run your mouth behind a screen name because you are a miserable crusty old man that loves to stir the pot but doesn't have the nads to come out from behind the keyboard. Don't call me a pansie without having the Vig to back it up.

Hahahahahaha I see someone took a tough pill. Please dont hit me with your purse. You seem to have come to certain conclusions about me.....Couldnt be any more wrong about them than you are. On the other hand, using this post and your very first one I have come to conclusions about you......You are nothing but one of the stereotypical "Glory Medics" who think that they and EMS are the second coming of Christ. You have to post your resume for everyone to see, and have to shout "Behold me, for I am a Paragod" from the highest buildings. You are incredulous when someone tells you flat out that you are wrong about something.

Query: Why leave San Diego as a FF/PM when the potential to make so much more money there than you could ever dream in Philly? The guys there finall have enough of your bullschit and run you out?

Lawsuit happy, yes thats me. If you would reverse your cranial-rectal inversion for two seconds (you should know what that is, you are a Paragod) you could do some research and find out about the hiring practices of the last two administrations of the Philadelphia Fire Department, more so the current administration.....You know what? nevermind that, just do some research on the diciplinary practices of the current administration and you will see that any caucasian member of the Fire Department cant and wont get a fair shake. I'll toss you a bone: google "Battalion Chief John Grillone." The Current admin of the Fire Department has made it painfully clear that they will do whatever they can to discipline any caucasian member to the fullest extent they can for minor infractions, all while totally sweeping infractions by black members of the department under the carpet.

The current admin of both the Fire Department and the City have made it painfully clear that they only want to hire "The Preferred Demographic" and will do it at any cost- even if it means dumbing down the test, using little to no physical standards (Hey Fuss or Pita, how about telling some stories about PT during the last few Academy classes?) and even hiring candidates with criminal records. The moral of the story here California Boy is that you dont know jack schit about what happens in Philly or the politics behind what happens. Here's another bone for you: Google "Philadelphia Fire Department Consent Decree."

I started this thread in the hopes that everyone could come on here and share information in order to promote a colorblind, merit-based test and hiring process. Unfortunately, since the City is hell bent on hiring "The Preferred Demographic." What exactly would you like me to call them? Pancakes? Waffles? How about "The african americans that the administration only wants to hire?" This whole new testing process has been a joke from the minute it was created (interestingly enough immediately following the court-ordered dismissal of the consent decree) and I predict it will eventually collapse on itself in an avalanche of lawsuits. But it will be "All systems normal" down at City Hall and Third and Spring Garden- The mayor wont care about the lawsuits as they will only grant him an excuse not to hire, to continue to use overtime to fill vacancies, and then blame it on "the greedy firefighters and the union."

You couldnt be more wrong about me. The funny thing is, that if you knew me, you would know that I have zero dogs in this fight. So get the sand out of your vagina, do some research about the City, the FD and the politics driving them and take the suggestion that you might want to reserve further comment until you have some knowledge of the situation at hand. Vig? Anytime you want to meet up you just let me know.

Have a nice day!

[BigGuyPhilly]

Is anyone really sure how this banding thing will work...all I hear i rumors?

Well, you could do some research yourself.

Go to http://www.phila.gov/phoneDir/

At the upper right-hand side of the page, there are two drop-down boxes underneath "Search by Department Name". Select "Office of Human Resources" from the top drop-down box.

Start calling.

You might also want to try email. The email addresses, for the most part, are the persons first name . last name @phila.gov. e.g. Clark.Kent@phila.gov

Anyone getting substantive answers, please post here.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[FWDbuff]

Well, you could do some research yourself.

Go to http://www.phila.gov/phoneDir/

At the upper right-hand side of the page, there are two drop-down boxes underneath "Search by Department Name". Select "Office of Human Resources" from the top drop-down box.

Start calling.

You might also want to try email. The email addresses, for the most part, are the persons first name . last name @phila.gov. e.g. Clark.Kent@phila.gov

Anyone getting substantive answers, please post here.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Once again, I highly recommend that anyone with questions should send them in writing, via registered mail with a return receipt. That way there is a paper trail that cannot be denied- so that later on when the answers change (and believe me they probably will) you have proof. Also they cannot dodge the questions- you have the proof that you send them in. PAPER TRAIL PAPER TRAIL PAPER TRAIL!!!!!

[nutts09]

Yeah sam I was in the same basement as you. Where you? What HS were you at and what time? Here is how I came to my hypothosis. I saw a couple of the same people in the basement who were coordinating the operation on my floor as we were filing in the door. Those same people were in the basement, not in the classrooms. (i finished my test in 1/2 hour) I only assume that they were the HMFIC of the test. The little black dude in the red sweater with the walkie, was the coordinator for this job (FF) classification. I asked him who he was....and asking people who they are instead of assuming there were just "3 old ladies" .....one of those old ladies could be the chief administrative asisstant for PFD or the manager of HR. You never know. No one here is assuming, bro, except you (And from above, I quote: "I only assume that they were the HMFIC of the test.") And I didn't say anything about any "old ladies." You should stop putting words in people's mouths. Bad habit. All I am saying is, in my classroom where I took the test, the proctor had written Central Highschool on the board for us to copy on the answer sheet. We were at Philly HS for Girls. When we corrected her, she said, "Oh I am usually at Central..." So I do not think she was from FPSI, for what it's worth.

The potential testing of 15,000 people is a big operation to coordinate with just bottom ladder 2 year tenured personnel. There were high ranking bosses there dude, no question about that. I'm sure there were? And....?

As for the collection of certs and no confirmation. I agree that's was a little sketchy, but I assume at some point during the process, before the academy, they will check your original hard copy certs for valididty. I think we already have the credits applied tentatively just from the application, but not officially ranked. Official acceptance and is dependent and held until the PFD background check is complete. They assume people lie on applications so maybe this is an honesty check. Candidates are always lost during background checks, it's the way of public safety sector jobs.

As you put it, this ain't my first rodeo, either, my friend. And I find it kind of suspicious that with your self-proclaimed experience of incredible magnitude and superior resume that you keep job-hopping across the country... But whatever, I could give two ****s. It's also kind of funny how you keep telling guys WHO ARE ON PFD what their EMS system and rotation is when they keep telling you no... Another boyscout know-it-all...great.

Further, I agree that EMS is extremely important. But becoming a medic just to get the job is not good advice. This is becoming the worst trend in the Fire Service. Guys who go get their medic certs just to get hired and they're friggin dangerous in the field. I work with them all the time and it is scary. If you do not want to be a medic DO NOT BECOME ONE. Good luck, hems, regardless.

[Upsidedown]

I was totally in that class where she wrote Central on the board but we were in Girls High. First floor, afternoon exam right? That was ridicilous. To clear it up, the test was proctored by Philadelphia public school teachers. If you couldn't tell that, then your clearly not from around here.

[FWDbuff]

. And I find it kind of suspicious that with your self-proclaimed experience of incredible magnitude and superior resume that you keep job-hopping across the country...

Yep. This.

[hemsparamedic]

This is absolutely WRONG.

First of all, a FIRE DEPARTMENT could never make money for a city with suppression calls. We don't bill people for putting out their house if its on fire... we USED to in the 17-1800s but not anymore.

Secondly, everyone though that EMS was to be the savior of the fire service since you CAN bill people or their insurance and bring revenue for the city. Unfortunately, in the city of Philadelphia, there is a collection rate of less than 25% of transports. Most of these scumbags use us as a glorified taxi ride (since it's against the law for us to refuse transporting a TUMMY ACHE!!). I'm not sure if I've ever gotten a real name or address unless I get an ID card or license. There are so many more reasons the city doesn't collect, a lot having to do with the inept administration with over 100 deputy mayors doing God knows what. But I digress...

The PFD as a whole, fire and EMS, is not designed to earn money. Even with how badly the funding is run, it is THE MOST EFFICIENT city department in Philadelphia. We provide the most cost effective service compared to any other city department. Streets/Corrections/Water dept(JOKE!), we're run better than all of them. That is a sad sad fact.

But the saddest fact is that there is an administration with an awful agenda in charge right now. They turn their cheek when the mayor says to close companies, but will fight to the end to make sure the FD "Looks like Philly". WTF?! Show me another department as big as Philly that doesn't have some sort of physical entry test. This new written is obviously a way for the admin to "PICK" who they want to hire regardless of anything but what they're looking for.

I hope for the best, that more good guys will get on and be able to work an entire career with the city.... There's not a lot of room left to transfer people into "fire prevention", so a lot of the ducks they hire will be outside doing the packarena when the fit hit the shan.

I am sorry i should have specified fire prevention (not supression) makes a little money for the city yes/no? fines for arson, fines for inspection violations. inspection fees themselves .....etc,