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Thread: Philadelphia 2011

  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex77 View Post
    Also how does the interview come into play with the hiring process/ranking?
    The interview has no bearing on your position on the list. It is a cursory pre-employment interview, basically to see that you are living, breathing, and can walk and chew gum at the same time (maybe).

  2. #627
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    I emailed Audrey Drummond yesterday about the residency preference which was not taken into account in the list of rankings. I would recommend that anyone else who is a Philadelphia resident do the same.

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    How do you know that wasn't taken into account? You know that for a fact?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex77 View Post
    How is the banding going to affect the scores? Are they going to band everyone into several large groups that they can then choose anyone from or will they just hire down the list in rank order?
    This is just one of the many questions that needed to be answered PRIOR to the test even being administered. Many asked, and many various answers (none of which were the same, and many basically saying "we have no idea how it's going to work, call someone else" were given. When answers were requested in writing, many all but got the phone hung up on them. There are also many other questions that need to be answered before they can be allowed to hire off this list; many questions that apparently SVandro doesnt think are important (at least before he deleted his post.....)

    And I find it VERY hard to believe that the City has not already applied residency preference pts to the scores- after all, the vast majority of "the preferred demographic" live in the city and they are the ones that the City wants to hire.......

    Has anyone called HR and found out what "List #2" means? What is list #1? When will it be released?

    Say it with me boys and girls: "CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT"

    Say this word, too boys and girls: "EMERGENCY INJUNCTION."

    Oh, and by the way SVandro- I dont have a f*cking dog in this fight, I started this thread in order to see to it that all potential candidates had a fair shot at getting hired. I know what it is like to be a victim of reverse discrimination due to the consent decree, which was fortunately dissolved last year, however certain factions of City Government have taken it upon themselves to do whatever they have to do to continue to hire as many of "the preferred demographic" as they possibly can. Is that OK with you?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  5. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upsidedown View Post
    How do you know that wasn't taken into account? You know that for a fact?
    Check my quote on page 32. It explains it.

  6. #631
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    Does anybody else agree with my logic on the residency issue?

  7. #632
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    How does the residency preference work?

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    As far as I can tell, residency is already factored in. Look at the random numbers in each category on the list, they proceed from lowest to highest, but then the numbers start-over towards the bottom of each grouping. The only explanation is that residency has already been accounted for and residents get ranked first in each grouping in order of their random numbers, then non-residents in the same fashion.

    As a resident, I can see that I am ranked above people who technically have lower random numbers in my category. Surely this is why.

  9. #634
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    When two or more competitors have the same final average (including credits), rank order among the tied competitors shall be determined by ranking their names:

    first, by their grades on the part of the examination which has the greatest weight, and

    second, by their grades on the remaining weighted parts in order of de¬creasing weight;

    for open competitive examinations administered on or after November 5, 2008, candidates who have maintained a bona fide residence in Philadelphia for at least one year prior to the date of the civil service examination shall have priority over all other persons receiving an identical test score;

    such as remain tied, by computer assigned random numbers, or such other appropriate procedure as the Director may determine.

  10. #635
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    BigGuyPhilly,

    Turn on your PM's

  11. #636
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    Therefore all residents with 100s will be hired before all non-resident 100s

  12. #637
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    Anyone interested in joining a lawsuit, PM me!

    Thanks!

  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigc View Post
    I emailed Audrey Drummond yesterday about the residency preference which was not taken into account in the list of rankings. I would recommend that anyone else who is a Philadelphia resident do the same.
    What was her answer?

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    ................
    Last edited by Upsidedown; 03-29-2012 at 08:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upsidedown View Post
    Don't know how to, but Im in.
    Sent you one, you should receive a notification I sent one.

    Anyone else! Don't be shy and also don't be "complacent" or feel comfortable because you may have scored a 100 or are ranked "High". The city took what was supposed to be a "fair, court defensible" alternative to a standard civil service test and graded it completely backwards to how the company recommends it.

    I suggest that every one of us joins in on this and DEMANDS the city score this test CORRECTLY or throw it out.

    Thanks and take care everyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatNow View Post
    Anyone interested in joining a lawsuit, PM me!

    Thanks!
    Grab the bull by the horns, organize everyone, hire an attorney (perhaps the Philly Chapter of CAFFA could recommend one???) and first thing- get an injunction to immediately freeze this list.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #642
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    Will pm you.
    Last edited by 4horsepwr; 03-28-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  18. #643
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    interesting how you guys decide to sue after the results come out... AFTER you find yourself low on the list. Probably be a different story if you placed well, huh. Well, I am low on the list too (1100s) but we knew this was how the test was going to be graded didn't we? Banding off the WSI?

    There are departments out there that choose "randomly" to even be ABLE to take the written. I have gone through an entire process all the way to the chief's interview and still was not selected "randomly"...

    Good luck on your next background ...

  19. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGuyPhilly View Post
    What was her answer?
    No response yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    interesting how you guys decide to sue after the results come out... AFTER you find yourself low on the list. Probably be a different story if you placed well, huh. Well, I am low on the list too (1100s) but we knew this was how the test was going to be graded didn't we? Banding off the WSI?

    There are departments out there that choose "randomly" to even be ABLE to take the written. I have gone through an entire process all the way to the chief's interview and still was not selected "randomly"...

    Good luck on your next background ...
    The issue with the firehouse rumor mill is just that -- its a rumor mill. You can't just aimlessly sue before any wrong doing has been done.. Ie: No one TRUELY knew for sure how the city was going to grade the exam until after the list was released.

    Actually if you read the companies website and view its "webinar" in reference to the testings (as well as referencing several other cities whom have used this test in the past, the TPM was used for the scoring and the WSI was used to place candidates for banding in the result of a tie.. For Example, We both scored a 100% but lets say you had a better match with the WSI, you would then be placed higher in the band).

    This isn't about where someone placed on a list.. It's about the several inconsistencies with the test and how it was graded. Be glad you live in a country that allows you to protest wrong doings and unfair treatment of its people, Nutts09
    Last edited by WhatNow; 03-28-2012 at 11:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    interesting how you guys decide to sue after the results come out... AFTER you find yourself low on the list. Probably be a different story if you placed well, huh. Well, I am low on the list too (1100s) but we knew this was how the test was going to be graded didn't we? Banding off the WSI?

    There are departments out there that choose "randomly" to even be ABLE to take the written. I have gone through an entire process all the way to the chief's interview and still was not selected "randomly"...

    Good luck on your next background ...

    Just ignore it, focus on yourself.
    Last edited by SVandro; 04-23-2012 at 03:41 PM.

  22. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVandro View Post
    Let them. That's at least 3 more names off the list, and a better chance for you! Keep your head straight, there's gonna be a lot of people telling you you can't, you don't have a shot, blah blah blah. They do that to feel better about themselves.
    He is saying he scored in the 1,100s. For the sake of argument lets assume he scored a 100% from the TPM portion... Wouldn't it be fair to say that without a doubt considerably less people scored near a 100% on the actual portion of the test that assesses whether or not a person would be able to retain and recall information for the fire academy/on the job? Statistically speaking (without the addition of extra points he would then be within the top 50 or so)....

    Would you rather be assessed by an exam that actually allows you to be competitive? I mean, far be it from me, but isn't this a "competitive" exam? With the way it was graded it may as well have just been a raffle ticket for a dollar considering about 1 and 5 of us scored a 100%.

    No ones saying he "cant" or "doesn't have a shot".

  23. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatNow View Post
    He is saying he scored in the 1,100s. For the sake of argument lets assume he scored a 100% from the TPM portion... Wouldn't it be fair to say that without a doubt considerably less people scored near a 100% on the actual portion of the test that assesses whether or not a person would be able to retain and recall information for the fire academy/on the job? Statistically speaking (without the addition of extra points he would then be within the top 50 or so)....

    Would you rather be assessed by an exam that actually allows you to be competitive? I mean, far be it from me, but isn't this a "competitive" exam? With the way it was graded it may as well have just been a raffle ticket for a dollar considering about 1 and 5 of us scored a 100%.

    No ones saying he "cant" or "doesn't have a shot".
    Lets be honest, what separated the top from the middle/bottom on this was the extra points. Military, FF1, EMT, and Medic. That's 20 points right there. Even if you scored an 85, you'd be at 105, and in the top 100.

  24. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVandro View Post
    Lets be honest, what separated the top from the middle/bottom on this was the extra points. Military, FF1, EMT, and Medic. That's 20 points right there. Even if you scored an 85, you'd be at 105, and in the top 100.
    Absolutely! If you look at the list around the top 100 or so are vets...but our fire and ems exams aren't graded with agree, strongly agree, strongly disagree, disagree questions and that still doesn't explain how 1 in 5 was able to score a 100% on a personality assessment and what sense it makes to randomly assign a number to break a tie when that measure was already in place? If the TPM portion of the test wasn't used.. there would be absolutely no disputing the "random" number system they used to break ties.
    However, again if one (candidate 1) scored a 100% on the TPM and 100% on the WSI why wouldn't that person be ranked higher than someone who scooted (candidate 2) by with a 70% TPM//100% WSI as "candidate 1" obviously shows more ability (or maybe just more drive) to excel as a firefighter.

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    I didn't even goto the mini academy but I researched and knew how the test was going to be graded. I was placed in the top 10%. Honestly, yes banding sucks and may in some ways be unfair but I didn't receive any extra points for anything and I aced the exam. Maybe I was placed higher in the rank because of "banding". Maybe to some people that is unfair but I know plenty of guys who took the test and didn't even get on the list and for the guys that I know that are on the list they are in the middle or the bottom. Regardless I am sure the department will burn through that list in 3 or 4 years. Let me ask you something... if you were placed at the top would you still be filing a lawsuit? I highly doubt it. So since you were placed lower you want to sue the city, and try and get the list thrown out or even frozen by injunction. Goodluck taking the test again and even getting yourself ranked...Also, lets freeze the list so no one gets into the academy. I studied for that test just like everyone else and I am happy with my rank.

    You do know a lot of people on that list may have found other jobs, may not pass the drug test and a variety of other things. Try and be a little possitive instead of being so negative about everything. I could easily be complaining about the veterans preference. There are guys with a score of 103 that received points for being a veteran and did not score higher then me. In return, giving them a 103 over my score of 100. You don't see me complaining about that do you? because I understand they are veterans but I could be a d!ck and file a lawsuit too if I wanted to.

    I understand you have the freedom to file a lawsuit but just remember those guys at the top studied just as hard as you did and deserve a shot just like everyone else. They described how the test was going to be graded and how the banding works.... now that you are on the lower end of the list you want to sue. Good luck with the lawsuit....

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