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Thread: Philadelphia 2011

  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatNow View Post
    Absolutely! If you look at the list around the top 100 or so are vets...but our fire and ems exams aren't graded with agree, strongly agree, strongly disagree, disagree questions and that still doesn't explain how 1 in 5 was able to score a 100% on a personality assessment and what sense it makes to randomly assign a number to break a tie when that measure was already in place? If the TPM portion of the test wasn't used.. there would be absolutely no disputing the "random" number system they used to break ties.
    However, again if one (candidate 1) scored a 100% on the TPM and 100% on the WSI why wouldn't that person be ranked higher than someone who scooted (candidate 2) by with a 70% TPM//100% WSI as "candidate 1" obviously shows more ability (or maybe just more drive) to excel as a firefighter.
    All power to you...I'm not on this list. Good luck; if you win, maybe you'll get the $4 worth of tokens back that it cost to get back and forth from the test site. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just trying to put it into perspective.
    Last edited by SVandro; 04-23-2012 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonBomb6 View Post
    I didn't even goto the mini academy but I researched and knew how the test was going to be graded. I was placed in the top 10%. Honestly, yes banding sucks and may in some ways be unfair but I didn't receive any extra points for anything and I aced the exam. . . . .I studied for that test just like everyone else and I am happy with my rank....
    Tha't cool. Just remember that if you got a "100" on the exam, good for you. You studied and got what you deserved. HOWEVER, assuming you have no points added, you're being in the top 10% of the list had NOTHING to do with your studying and everything to do with the low "random number" you were lucky enough to pull on whatever day they decided to assign numbers.

    Nobody is faulting people for studying and getting a 100%. The issue is what happened from that point in terms of generating rank on the list. If its is fair for people with identical scores of 100 to be ranked soley from a lottery then so be it I guess. Should have played the real lottery the day your random number was assigned. It was in fact, your lucky day.

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    So all the shenanigans and tomfoolery that went on during the actual written test (things like no fingerprinting or checking of ID's, guys being on their cell phones during the test, guys talking to one another during the test, proctors leaving the room during the test, things like that) that could have allowed (GASP!) cheating to occur.....these things should be forgotten?

    What about all the people who called in or wrote letters or emails to HR and asked for explanations of how things were going to be graded, and for explanations of the "banding" prior to the written test and were never provided a verbal (much less a written) response....or were given the run-around by being told to contact WSI, or another person in HR, or this department or that department....Or when they called WSI were given the run around.....these things should be forgotten? The more SVandro speaks the more it makes me think he is a minority, a liberal, or both.
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  4. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonBomb6 View Post
    I didn't even goto the mini academy but I researched and knew how the test was going to be graded. I was placed in the top 10%. Honestly, yes banding sucks and may in some ways be unfair but I didn't receive any extra points for anything and I aced the exam
    No additional points for anything and you aced a personality test. Thats amazing

    Back to reality,

    I'm curious what the email said to those who did not make the list.

  5. #655
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    Does anyone know if it was just PA FF1 that got your points?

  6. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatNow View Post
    However, again if one (candidate 1) scored a 100% on the TPM and 100% on the WSI why wouldn't that person be ranked higher than someone who scooted (candidate 2) by with a 70% TPM//100% WSI as "candidate 1" obviously shows more ability (or maybe just more drive) to excel as a firefighter.
    Guess you didn't read the rules. The TPM was ONLY Pass/Fail - NOT graded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFF26 View Post
    Does anyone know if it was just PA FF1 that got your points?
    Yes, has to be FF1 accepted by the State of Pa.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Yes, has to be FF1 accepted by the State of Pa.
    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...eciprocity_pdf

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    If you can challenge PA would they give points for NJ certs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFF26 View Post
    If you can challenge PA would they give points for NJ certs?
    Your certs must be accepted by, and converted to Pa. certs. See the reciprocity link provided by BigGuyPhilly in post #699. No Pa. reciprocity and conversion, no points.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDFF26 View Post
    If you can challenge PA would they give points for NJ certs?
    This is exactly what I am talking about - dude is talking about "challenging PA" when he didn't even take the time to prepare himself completely for the exam.

    The job announcement ended in August... MDFF26, what were you doing for the four months PRIOR to the test???

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    It doesn't matter if you read the link you posted you must be a pa resident to get your other state certifications accepted. Also you must take the pro board challenge test as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutts09 View Post
    This is exactly what I am talking about - dude is talking about "challenging PA" when he didn't even take the time to prepare himself completely for the exam.

    The job announcement ended in August... MDFF26, what were you doing for the four months PRIOR to the test???
    Because I didn't know if they would give me points for my out of state certs, or know PA laws if I could challenge to get my certs accepted that means I didn't prepare for the test? I guess I was more worried with the study packet so I could get the 100 that I did with out any points because I was under the assumption that I wasn't going to get those certs. So what exactly are you really talking about? Before it was there are departments that choose randomly who can even take the test, now it "this is what im talking about he didn't take the time to prepare himself."

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    It is critical that everyone on the list follow the review process on you notification letter or email. Call 215-686-0880 to make an appointment to review your results.

    Make sure you get as much information as possible and check over your answer sheets thoroughly.

    The city has made mistakes on scoring sheets in the past and more than likely did this exam.

    To those of you who did do well enough to be in the next class good luck and remember just don't be an ***-hole and you'll do fine
    Last edited by philly10; 04-02-2012 at 09:49 AM.

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    Does anyone know when Philly is looking to put the first recruit class together? Also I have forgoten if the forum has addressed this question so I appoligize now lol... How does Philly work the rotation on and off the EMS bus/wagon?

  16. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFD8 View Post
    Does anyone know when Philly is looking to put the first recruit class together? Also I have forgoten if the forum has addressed this question so I appoligize now lol... How does Philly work the rotation on and off the EMS bus/wagon?
    From what I've heard they will be bringing in two classes as soon as the backround checks and interviews are done so however long that will take. We do four on four off, two day works and two nightworks, and the squad rotation depends on where you are normaly about every three months give or take

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    How many recruits does each class usually consist of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deadbear271 View Post
    How many recruits does each class usually consist of?
    The last classes that were brought in started with about 80-90 a class

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    Does anybody have an idea about when the background/interview process will begin for the first classes?

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    The only party to blame for this entire dilemma is the Firefighter's Union itself. If they were really concerned about the quality/credentials of the incoming classes, the integrity of the test process, or the Fire Department itself - THEY would have been the one's to stand up and fight for a more transparent testing process.

    Every firefighter currently on the job who is on this page telling those ppl to sue, should shut the hell up. If they really cared, THEY would have done something PRIOR to this test to ensure the PFD was getting the most qualified class possible.

    So why haven't they done anything? It's pretty simple - they don't care. It's easier for them to sit back and tell other ppl to sue while blaming the administration, the City, etc, etc, etc..

    To all the firefighters on here complaining about how the PFD "isn't the same," look no further than yourself. And then shut the hell up.

    I

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomname2 View Post
    The only party to blame for this entire dilemma is the Firefighter's Union itself. If they were really concerned about the quality/credentials of the incoming classes, the integrity of the test process, or the Fire Department itself - THEY would have been the one's to stand up and fight for a more transparent testing process.

    Every firefighter currently on the job who is on this page telling those ppl to sue, should shut the hell up. If they really cared, THEY would have done something PRIOR to this test to ensure the PFD was getting the most qualified class possible.

    So why haven't they done anything? It's pretty simple - they don't care. It's easier for them to sit back and tell other ppl to sue while blaming the administration, the City, etc, etc, etc..

    To all the firefighters on here complaining about how the PFD "isn't the same," look no further than yourself. And then shut the hell up.

    I
    You gotta love d*%chebags like this that haven't a clue what they are talking about and get real tough over a computer. The Union and current members have no say over the way the city hires. The city has the right to implement any testing process they wish the only time the union can step in is after the test is held and there was a problem so until you know what the f*^k your talking about keep it to yourself
    Last edited by philly10; 04-05-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomname2 View Post
    The only party to blame for this entire dilemma is the Firefighter's Union itself. If they were really concerned about the quality/credentials of the incoming classes, the integrity of the test process, or the Fire Department itself - THEY would have been the one's to stand up and fight for a more transparent testing process.

    Every firefighter currently on the job who is on this page telling those ppl to sue, should shut the hell up. If they really cared, THEY would have done something PRIOR to this test to ensure the PFD was getting the most qualified class possible.

    So why haven't they done anything? It's pretty simple - they don't care. It's easier for them to sit back and tell other ppl to sue while blaming the administration, the City, etc, etc, etc..

    To all the firefighters on here complaining about how the PFD "isn't the same," look no further than yourself. And then shut the hell up.

    I
    You are so clueless that the air inside your head is inert.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    How effective is a union that "has no say over the way the City hires?" If that doesn't show the ineptitude of the union itself, then I don't know what does. What good is stepping in AFTER the test is administered. As we can all see, (and the 900 ppl who scored 100's can attest too), this after the test challenge is sure going to do a lot of good. Please note my sarcasm.

    A union that doesn't have control over the way ppl are hired is no "union" at all. You mean to tell me that you guys are "helpless" to change an utterly arbitrary, and some would argue discriminatory, testing process? That's just pathetic. As a civil service job, this test should be comparable to that taken by police recruits, but it isn't. You know why? Because the police union made it change. (I am not on a PPD). So once again, please stop telling everyone to file an injunctive class action suit. Unfortunately, the people going for this job are not likely to have the financial resources, time, etc to do that. So shut the f*ck up.

    I have repeated these statements to both firefighters and a few battalion chiefs on the job today.

  24. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomname2 View Post
    How effective is a union that "has no say over the way the City hires?" If that doesn't show the ineptitude of the union itself, then I don't know what does. What good is stepping in AFTER the test is administered. As we can all see, (and the 900 ppl who scored 100's can attest too), this after the test challenge is sure going to do a lot of good. Please note my sarcasm.

    A union that doesn't have control over the way ppl are hired is no "union" at all. You mean to tell me that you guys are "helpless" to change an utterly arbitrary, and some would argue discriminatory, testing process? That's just pathetic. As a civil service job, this test should be comparable to that taken by police recruits, but it isn't. You know why? Because the police union made it change. (I am not on a PPD). So once again, please stop telling everyone to file an injunctive class action suit. Unfortunately, the people going for this job are not likely to have the financial resources, time, etc to do that. So shut the f*ck up.

    I have repeated these statements to both firefighters and a few battalion chiefs on the job today.
    You have to go back to 1974 in Federal Court. The union was told by a Federal judge that they had no standing in a lawsuit involving hiring practices in the PFD as they didn't represent anyone who had not yet been hired.

    Therefore, the union "has no say over the way the City hires". Thus, only people on the hiring list can sue or start a class-action lawsuit.

    The FOP didn't make the City change it's hiring practices for police. Ramsey did. Also the Municipal Police Officer certification requirements necessitated some changes.

    Please check your facts before you start ranting.

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    Thanks for the info. As far as I know, Fed Court decisions are not set in stone and may be challenged at any time on legitimate grounds. Considering 1974 was 38 years ago, I don't believe (although I'm not certain) the judge who decided the issue is still serving today.

    While I certainly understand the standing rationale. Any lawyer worth their salt could craft a persuasive argument for why the Union either should be granted standing or should be allowed some/any input into the testing process that determines their prospective members (i.e. the members they will be responsible for).

    If everyone thought Federal Court rulings were infallible, separate but equal would still be good law. A union helpless to a 38 year old court ruling gets no sympathy from me.

    And if that is not possible, then look no further than the FOP (Ramsey changed the hiring practice). Why can't the Fire Commissioner? Oh yeah, I forgot - you guys our helpless on that one too. Pathetic

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