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Thread: Philadelphia 2011

  1. #1281
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    The vet points are because it is a civil service test. Anyone who wasn't dishonorably discharged will get extra points on ANY civil service test ANYWHERE in the US. The only difference is other parts of the country offer 3, 5 and 10 point veterans preference depending on the conditions of the candidate. i.e. spouse of a vet disabled or killed while on active duty might get 3 or 5 points, while a vet himself would get 10 points.

    It's been like that looooooong before Pres. Obama however, I'm sure there is some kind of federal "advantage" to it..... somehow, maybe ???

    Yes. This I can understand. I am very thankful for our vets. Wish I had gone in the service. And I don't want to kick this around anymore, but it is discouraging----having been prepared to be a firefighter all your adult life, and to score well on the test, be physically ready, have related experience, and, again, scoring high enough on the test to rank high enough on the list to make the next class, but may never see the dream job because all vets must be hired first, no matter what they scored on the test, and no matter what kind if shape they may be in physically. I just think that's BS. It negates the purpose of having a test and a list at all...

    Anyway, good luck to everyone. Here's to PFD having several classes from this list!
    Last edited by GOOSH!; 08-05-2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Grammar


  2. #1282
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOOSH! View Post
    And I don't want to kick this around anymore, but it is discouraging to having being prepared to be a firefighter all your adult life,
    If you had truly been preparing to be a firefighter your entire "adult life," you would have realized the advantage military veterans receive on the exams, and enlisted in the service.

    All of the rest of your comments sound like sour grapes.

  3. #1283
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBarnes View Post
    If you had truly been preparing to be a firefighter your entire "adult life," you would have realized the advantage military veterans receive on the exams, and enlisted in the service.

    All of the rest of your comments sound like sour grapes.
    Yep. You got me there.

    If you pay attention, I'm not talking about advantages on the exams; I'm talking about vets getting HIRED first, without question, regardless of there mental, physical and emotional capabilities, and rank on the list. I would imagine, if I were on the job, I would not want some fat slob who can barely pass a civil service exam to be the guy I have to trust my life with... And this of course is not all vets, regardless of rank. All I am saying is a list is a list is a list!

    Done.
    Last edited by GOOSH!; 08-05-2012 at 08:41 PM.
    MFES and deadbear271 like this.

  4. #1284
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    Its the fact that someone in the 1800s will be hired before someone in the single digits. And that 1800 is with 10 points already added. Just so happens its vets given this preference. Could have been residents. I understand and feel your frustration Goosh.

  5. #1285
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    It is what it is..someone will always get screwed. Either it is the white guy, the black guy, the Hispanic guy, the Asian guy, The Veteran, the non-veteran, the resident, the non-resident, #1 or #1000, the guy whose taken 100 firefighter exams, and the guy who has taken his first. That is life. That is the chance you take when you take the exam.

  6. #1286
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    Thanks dad lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorfPhilly View Post
    Griff did you get your letter for the medical yet? And my interviewer stated for a fact that the classes are Sept 10th and Sept 14th

    My husband was fitted for his gear two weekends ago and the LT that fitted him said those were the start days as well

  8. #1288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffwife83 View Post
    My husband was fitted for his gear two weekends ago and the LT that fitted him said those were the start days as well
    How long after medical did he get notified to go for gear fitting? Was the notification by phone, or mail?

    Tell him good luck and congrats.

  9. #1289
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    Unless things have changed only the vets who end up with a higher total score after points are awarded should move on. Meaning the ones who score better than you after their points....
    Things have changed, Fuss.

  10. #1290
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    Unless things have changed only the vets who end up with a higher total score after points are awarded should move on. Meaning the ones who score better than you after their points. If a guy scores an 85 after vet points he should NOT get hired before anyone, vet or non vet with an 86 or above. However, if a vet scores 100 with his points, he'll probably move ahead before a non vet with 100. But just because you move forward does NOT mean you're getting in. Who said they hire them regardless of any of the stuff you mentioned? Everyone passes the same interview, physical and background checks. You all have to meet the same criteria. If you look at every vet that was in the academy vs every other cadet, there is a way higher proportion of lazy, idiotic slugs in the non-vet category.

    But back to how I started this post. I'm not aware of how they're selecting people. I wasn't even aware when I was in the process and this one seems much more complex (stupid). But if they are indeed taking a vets scoring lower than others after points are awarded that is BS. Before it was always, two guys tie; take the vet first. Only however, if they TIED. I support the vets very much but even I'm not for just giving them jobs. All I can say is "welcome to the Philly Fire hiring process, there will be A LOT more BS in the future!"

    I don't think the city could ever do a hiring process everyone would say is fair... But in this case they sure seem to be doing everything they can to make it unfair. I've said it a hundred times before, the test should be as follows.

    A 12th grade level reading, writing, and math written. (you have to graduate HS to test ((for now)) don't you?!) Score is a number score out of 100.
    Either the CPAT physical test, or some kind of similar "time count down" skill evaluating physical test.

    For example, say you score 92 out of 100 on the written. For the CPAT you would start with a time of 10:20 (the clock starts at 10:20 and counts down), and a possible 620 points... each second is a point. If the test took you 8 minutes, you would have 2:20 left on the clock thus scoring a 140 on the physical test. Add that to the written and you get a total points score. THAT ranks all cadets equally.

    Of course that brings us back to the vets. They would obviously receive 10 points to their final score but its always been that way... did I just go in a big circle?
    Bro, much respect to you and I hope you don't take this the wrong way as you are 1 of the few people on here who I take seriously and respect, but....

    I've said this earlier, and I'll ask/say it again..I don't know if you saw the test, I'm sure you saw the study guide. I've taken true civil service tests for corrections officer before and I've scored quite well, I've taken the ASVAB and also scored very well ( my GT score was a 118 out of 130, I could've done anything in the military I wanted) and I've taken this test. I find it hard to believe that guys like you who have been on the job, doing it day in and day out can justify that test as being fair, fair isn't the word I'm looking for...lets go with realistic. They gave us a study portion, which was pass and fail, and then they gave us an E-harmony profile to fill out that was how we were ranked. ( I know you know this)

    So for anyone..ANYONE to justify that they deserve something or anything based on taking that test is absurd. Half the people didn't even bring their email for admittance. And you admitted yourself..that the slugs and idiots in the academy are non-vets..

    Let me present you with a scenario..Months from now when these 2 classes graduate, you and your brothers ( I know you aren't in Philly anymore, but for the sake of conversation..) in the Firehouse have your pick of probationary firefighters and all you know about them is a general performance report from the instructors at the academy and weather they are veterans or non-veterans, who would you guys rather work with?

    It is also well known, that the fire service, prefers to hire veterans based on their ability to work within a para-military environment..so while what is going on here might be considered drastic, there has been a precedent set over the last 150 or so years.

    If the city has received funding from somewhere, or weather they have not to hire ALL vets off the list first, then that is what it is..I've applied to numerous federal positions where I was qualified, but lost out to nepotism..my purple heart, campaign ribbons, and overseas tours didn't mean anything because I didn't know the right person. I've mentioned earlier that the unemployment rate among returning veterans is upwards of 30%, that is disgusting and perhaps, I am bias, because I am a Vet, but everyone on this list had the same opportunity to enlist and get preference.

    However, the bottom line is that the vets/non-vets that are in the process now still have to go through the same process. I can't wear clothes I went to the gym in today smelling like a vidalia onion not clean shaven, long hair, not addressing people as sir/ma'am and still make it through. I can't go into the medical weighing 300 pounds with high cholesterol, high blood pressure, pop hot for drugs, or have a funky EKG or chest Xray and still get pushed through. I can't go out and get into a high speed police chase and shoot out with PA State Police and expect a free ride to the academy. Weather You are number 1, 1800 a vet, a non-vet a paramedic whatever..you still have to get through the process and graduate the academy.

    So, just because you aren't in the first academy doesn't mean you won't be in the 2nd, or 3rd, or hopefully 4th.
    Last edited by BigGriffC12; 08-06-2012 at 12:44 PM. Reason: added to post

  11. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFuss View Post
    I'm aware of the recent test, and I've never said I agreed that it was fair. I actually have quite the opposite opinion of pretty much all of the tests Philly has given I've ever heard of.

    I stick to what I said would be "fair" for an entry level Philly fire test. Reading, writing and math at the 12th grade level, and a timed physical test. Vets get 10 points to their final score.

    I'm thinking you might have misread what I was getting at. Believe me I do NOT think the last test given, or even the one I took were fair. They are designed to pass a whole lot of people so that the city can pick out who they want. Just because its a civil service test doesnt mean its got to be simplified. The material should represent the minimum education level acceptable to be hired in that position. Philly fire being high school graduate, it should at least be a 12th grade level written. Not the joke of a "do you like red or blue" test that it was.

    One of the main points in my last post was... well,

    "I don't think the city could ever do a hiring process everyone would say is fair... But in this case they sure seem to be doing everything they can to make it unfair." -me
    Honestly, when I was researching the PFD and their hiring process back in 2010 till now I'm shocked that such a huge dept, in such a large city wouldn't hold some type of agility test CPAT or otherwise.

    Would that help weed out some of the people? Yes..

    But the premise of making the test easy enough for a large group of people to pass so the city has a large pool of people to pick from and hire who/how they want to is nothing new. I scored top 10 top 15 for corrections officer in about 10 counties that I tested for, before Vets points...2 years ago and I haven't been contacted for a job. Was the test that easy? I think it was ok..but in every aspect of life weather your kid trys out for a sports team in high school, or you apply for a job at a restaurant, a federal firefighter position, or a county, or city fire ems/dept, the results are the same, the test results can be skewed to effect however/whoever in whatever way is suited. The city obviously wants to hire vets..so they're going to hire vets. If they wanted to hire minorities then they would do that. An employer will hire whomever they want based on whatever criteria they have weather that be hiring standards, age, experience, or in this case...veterans status. I'm more then grateful for the opportunity to participate in the hiring process, and honestly, if they call me for gear fitting I will probably break down and cry like a little baby...

    I'm still going to have to prove myself in the academy to the instructors/staff, and in the field to your brothers and sisters...and honestly, I think I will have to prove myself more because of the hiring situation and I'm ok with that. If you need me I'll be in the kitchen with a mop or brillo pad, or in the bathroom with Clorox wipes, or in the apparatus bay covered in turtle wax...and this goes for everyone who gets hired.

    ...hopefully, if I make it that far.
    Last edited by BigGriffC12; 08-06-2012 at 01:41 PM. Reason: added to post

  12. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    How long after medical did he get notified to go for gear fitting? Was the notification by phone, or mail?

    Tell him good luck and congrats.
    He was called within a week to get fitted and was fitted two days after they called. It seemed like they only had Sat and Sun available when they gave him a call.

    I'll tell him and good luck and congrats to you!

  13. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Honestly, when I was researching the PFD and their hiring process back in 2010 till now I'm shocked that such a huge dept, in such a large city wouldn't hold some type of agility test CPAT or otherwise.

    Would that help weed out some of the people? Yes..

    But the premise of making the test easy enough for a large group of people to pass so the city has a large pool of people to pick from and hire who/how they want to is nothing new. I scored top 10 top 15 for corrections officer in about 10 counties that I tested for, before Vets points...2 years ago and I haven't been contacted for a job. Was the test that easy? I think it was ok..but in every aspect of life weather your kid trys out for a sports team in high school, or you apply for a job at a restaurant, a federal firefighter position, or a county, or city fire ems/dept, the results are the same, the test results can be skewed to effect however/whoever in whatever way is suited. The city obviously wants to hire vets..so they're going to hire vets. If they wanted to hire minorities then they would do that. An employer will hire whomever they want based on whatever criteria they have weather that be hiring standards, age, experience, or in this case...veterans status. I'm more then grateful for the opportunity to participate in the hiring process, and honestly, if they call me for gear fitting I will probably break down and cry like a little baby...

    I'm still going to have to prove myself in the academy to the instructors/staff, and in the field to your brothers and sisters...and honestly, I think I will have to prove myself more because of the hiring situation and I'm ok with that. If you need me I'll be in the kitchen with a mop or brillo pad, or in the bathroom with Clorox wipes, or in the apparatus bay covered in turtle wax...and this goes for everyone who gets hired.

    ...hopefully, if I make it that far.
    I was surprised there was no type of physical test as well. My husband also applied for the Easton PA fire department, and you had to pass the physical in the morning to even be able to sit for the written that same afternoon. It included a swim, 9 stages (forced entry, 2 story ladder climb, dummy drag, etc) that had to be finished in under 5 min and a 75ft ladder climb with gear

  14. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffwife83 View Post
    I was surprised there was no type of physical test as well. My husband also applied for the Easton PA fire department, and you had to pass the physical in the morning to even be able to sit for the written that same afternoon. It included a swim, 9 stages (forced entry, 2 story ladder climb, dummy drag, etc) that had to be finished in under 5 min and a 75ft ladder climb with gear
    I thought about taking the Easton exam, but I was only allowed to miss 8 hours of EMT class and I had to take the 1 Saturday off to test for Philly. Hopefully I made the right call.

  15. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    I thought about taking the Easton exam, but I was only allowed to miss 8 hours of EMT class and I had to take the 1 Saturday off to test for Philly. Hopefully I made the right call.
    You did, Easton doesn't have any openings yet, they are just preparing for retirements. Also, the department only has about 40 or so people which means there is less of an opportunity for advancement (if you are looking to move up to officer in your career)

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    Does a conditional offer mean you're in the class as long as you pass the physical?

    What I mean is, did they give conditional offers to more people than they have spots for?

  17. #1297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getmeouttahere View Post
    Does a conditional offer mean you're in the class as long as you pass the physical?

    What I mean is, did they give conditional offers to more people than they have spots for?
    I think a conditional offer of employment pending a medical is just..if you passed the medical then you have a job...if not then it is reascended.

    I would assume so, being as they can't really tell if someone has medical problems just by looking at them.

  18. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorfPhilly View Post
    Received my conditional offer of appointment pending the medcial screening in another week.....lookin good!
    Hey bro, just wondering what day/date your medical is? being as we interviewed the same day I figured since I live about 130 miles outside the city my mail is a little slow..just want to have an idea in case my letter gets lost in the mail or comes late..feel free to PM me if you want. thnx.

  19. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Bro, much respect to you and I hope you don't take this the wrong way as you are 1 of the few people on here who I take seriously and respect, but....

    I've said this earlier, and I'll ask/say it again..I don't know if you saw the test, I'm sure you saw the study guide. I've taken true civil service tests for corrections officer before and I've scored quite well, I've taken the ASVAB and also scored very well ( my GT score was a 118 out of 130, I could've done anything in the military I wanted) and I've taken this test. I find it hard to believe that guys like you who have been on the job, doing it day in and day out can justify that test as being fair, fair isn't the word I'm looking for...lets go with realistic. They gave us a study portion, which was pass and fail, and then they gave us an E-harmony profile to fill out that was how we were ranked. ( I know you know this)

    So for anyone..ANYONE to justify that they deserve something or anything based on taking that test is absurd. Half the people didn't even bring their email for admittance. And you admitted yourself..that the slugs and idiots in the academy are non-vets..

    Let me present you with a scenario..Months from now when these 2 classes graduate, you and your brothers ( I know you aren't in Philly anymore, but for the sake of conversation..) in the Firehouse have your pick of probationary firefighters and all you know about them is a general performance report from the instructors at the academy and weather they are veterans or non-veterans, who would you guys rather work with?

    It is also well known, that the fire service, prefers to hire veterans based on their ability to work within a para-military environment..so while what is going on here might be considered drastic, there has been a precedent set over the last 150 or so years.

    If the city has received funding from somewhere, or weather they have not to hire ALL vets off the list first, then that is what it is..I've applied to numerous federal positions where I was qualified, but lost out to nepotism..my purple heart, campaign ribbons, and overseas tours didn't mean anything because I didn't know the right person. I've mentioned earlier that the unemployment rate among returning veterans is upwards of 30%, that is disgusting and perhaps, I am bias, because I am a Vet, but everyone on this list had the same opportunity to enlist and get preference.

    However, the bottom line is that the vets/non-vets that are in the process now still have to go through the same process. I can't wear clothes I went to the gym in today smelling like a vidalia onion not clean shaven, long hair, not addressing people as sir/ma'am and still make it through. I can't go into the medical weighing 300 pounds with high cholesterol, high blood pressure, pop hot for drugs, or have a funky EKG or chest Xray and still get pushed through. I can't go out and get into a high speed police chase and shoot out with PA State Police and expect a free ride to the academy. Weather You are number 1, 1800 a vet, a non-vet a paramedic whatever..you still have to get through the process and graduate the academy.

    So, just because you aren't in the first academy doesn't mean you won't be in the 2nd, or 3rd, or hopefully 4th.
    Hey, Bro...

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha...

    Okay, Bro...

  20. #1300
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOOSH! View Post
    Hey, Bro...

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha...

    Okay, Bro...
    This guy.....

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