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    Default Philadelphia 2011

    Continuing where they cut us off (lets knock off the cockfights, shall we guys?)

    dbask, the test is going to be rediculously easy, just as it always is, and in this case, even easier. Why? Because the current administration (both the PFD and the City Admin) want the test to be easy enough so that many many many many of the "preferred demographic" can pass and get hired. Especially now that they have opened the floodgates of allowing extra points for Pa. FFI and Pa. EMT which has never happened before. (and there was a reason for THAT, too.)

    Trust me. Study the book hard enough to memorize the contents and you will pass with flying colors.
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    FWDbuff, you talk about "preferred demographic" for hiring and I am inclined to believe the same. I am a medic in the city in one of our trauma centers. A few PFD guys work part time with me and are holding to the same belief that the city is targeting specific groups to hire. Although this maybe true, I have a hard time believing my 13pts (and a hopeful high score) won't place me above some of those in that demographic. Another saving grace for guys such as myself is the resident preference. Now with no list but the use of "banding" I am lost in the sauce as to how they will pick. Maybe I am just wishful thinking but I have to believe the city will hire the right guy/gals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bul2587 View Post
    FWDbuff, you talk about "preferred demographic" for hiring and I am inclined to believe the same. I am a medic in the city in one of our trauma centers. A few PFD guys work part time with me and are holding to the same belief that the city is targeting specific groups to hire. Although this maybe true, I have a hard time believing my 13pts (and a hopeful high score) won't place me above some of those in that demographic. Another saving grace for guys such as myself is the resident preference. Now with no list but the use of "banding" I am lost in the sauce as to how they will pick. Maybe I am just wishful thinking but I have to believe the city will hire the right guy/gals.
    1. This is the second time I have heard someone mention a "resident preference" yet I can find nothing on the official announcement, unless I am just not looking hard enough or didn't have enough coffee. What is/how much is the resident preference and can you link it????

    2. "Maybe I am just wishful thinking but I have to believe the city will hire the right guy/gals." -I took three tests over 11 years. White/male/non-vet. Was told the last time (can't remember the year, somewhere around 1999/2000) by many of my PFD friends "yer in soon kid." Kept getting passed over and over and over so that they could get enough of the "preferred demographic" to come to orientation and fill out the paperwork, and to pass the pee test, the criminal check, etc etc etc......Sure.....They will hire the right guys/gals- the ones that they want to.

    Sounds like you will have enough extra credit to get on. I only wish there was extra points back then for EMT/FFI and for residence......Or maybe I wish they had the 6-month from date of hire to move in thing-Never would have bought my house in the 12th Batallion. Thank christ I was able to sell it at a profit when the "preferred demographic" started coming across the Boulevard.
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    FWDBuff:
    Residency preference is on the application page. See link above.

    PREFERENCE FOR PHILADELPHIA RESIDENTS: Candidates who have maintained a bona fide residence in Philadelphia for at least one year prior to the date of the civil service examination shall have priority over all other persons receiving an identical test score.

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    You have to have faith..I'm sure that they hire from a pool of the perfered demographic..but how many of the "perfered demographic" can pass a extensive background check? a psych eval? can handle a para-military type atmosphere on a daily basis when they can just quit and go sell drugs or collect welfare from their baby mama's.

    I am by no means racist, as I stated in other posts...I do beleive that the process is generally fair..In fact, I think that people from outside the city have an advantage..with the FF1 and emt..thats 5 points..think about it. They can promote the exam all they want, and target as many "perfered demographics" as they want, but in the end, they can't make them study, they can't make them show up, they can't make them get through the hiring process or get through the academy..

    Some would say that it is unfair that I get 10 points for being a vet..I voluntarily served my country, I voluntarily re-enlisted to continue to serve my country, I did it of sound mind and body..no one made me, or held a gun to my head...I was never opressed. either way, I get 10 points for it.

    Some would say that the whole residency preference is unfair..well..you need to take care of your own first..and that is why philadelphia is 1 of the cities that I want to work for..they take care of their own citizens first. That might sound cheesy to some people but I admire it and I understand it.

    Some would say that the whole FF1 EMT points are unfair...The majority, if not all of those who will posess FF1/EMT will be volunteer firefighers..since there are no volunteer firefighters in the city of philly, because they have a paid departmant..how can someone living in the city go and get those extra points?

    My goal is to score as high as humanly possible..and wherever I end up on the list..that is where I end up..I've failed before, and I'm sure I will fail again..it is what it is..

    Best of luck to all you guys/girls.

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    Thanks fwd for the new thread and the info. Good luck to everyone that's taking the test. Whoever wanted to know about the residence can go to www.phila.gov. click on find a job the go to firefighter. It breaks down things on that. You can also look in the old 2010 thread. But you will have to scroll threw the pages a little. Hope this helps

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Some would say that the whole residency preference is unfair..well..you need to take care of your own first..and that is why philadelphia is 1 of the cities that I want to work for..they take care of their own citizens first. That might sound cheesy to some people but I admire it and I understand it.
    Griff, no offense but you don't understand. You are so naieve....(spelling?) They want to take care of their own citizens first- just as long as they are the "preferred demographic."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ff.matt View Post
    FWDBuff:
    Residency preference is on the application page. See link above.

    PREFERENCE FOR PHILADELPHIA RESIDENTS: Candidates who have maintained a bona fide residence in Philadelphia for at least one year prior to the date of the civil service examination shall have priority over all other persons receiving an identical test score.
    Ok so it's a tie-breaker. Not like they are offering extra points like other cities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGriffC12 View Post
    Some would say that the whole FF1 EMT points are unfair...The majority, if not all of those who will posess FF1/EMT will be volunteer firefighers..since there are no volunteer firefighters in the city of philly, because they have a paid departmant..how can someone living in the city go and get those extra points?
    This is again, another case of taking care of the preferred demographic. This was adopted in order to boost the chances of high school students in a Philadelphia Technical High School with a firefighter/emt program. The program is almost made up entirely of students of the preferred demographic. However I have to believe that someone at City Hall didn't do their homework- They didn't realize that every Volly in Pa is now going to apply, inlcluding many 10-point vets. I see someone in City Hall getting their azz handed to them over this whole thing when they realize about 10,000 white kids with the credentials apply. Could be wrong though.

    Yes, there are no Volly Departments inside the City, but the City is surrounded totally by Volly departments. Many vollies live inside the City, and there are also many PFD guys that Volly. Many of the volly departments have no residency requirement as many of the departments work on the "duty crew" system-guys wont be responding from home (unless for a big one) because they are bunking out at the station. I was a volly for 10 years when I moved into the City to try and get hired, and remained a volly for the 7-8 years I stayed in the City.

    Griff, where are you from? if you are serious about wanting to get hired onto PFD, I'll help as much as I can, but you really need to come see the City sometime and talk to guys like Fuss or Pita and see what it's really like. If you are moving a long distance, you might regret it, or you might love it.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 07-22-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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    From what I hear they are trying to hire a certain amount of people from different ethic backgrounds. You get 5 points if you are african American, you get point's if you are a vet. They have to hire a certain amount of people of different backgrounds from what iam hearing. For example if you have a bunch of blue people coming to take the test and they all got 95 and above. Then you have green and yellow people and the score between 85 and 90. Crazy as it sounds some of those blue people that scored 95 might get skipped over because you still hace to hire the green and yellow people.

    Excuse my colors I used we all know there are no blue people unless you are apart of willy wonkas chocolate factory but I just didn't wabt to turn this into a race issue.

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    I don't about everybody else but I wish there was still an application fee.
    Last edited by Stogie81; 02-25-2014 at 09:38 AM.

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    Thumbs up

    I am with you on that one stogie
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbask View Post
    From what I hear they are trying to hire a certain amount of people from different ethic backgrounds. You get 5 points if you are african American, you get point's if you are a vet. They have to hire a certain amount of people of different backgrounds from what iam hearing. For example if you have a bunch of blue people coming to take the test and they all got 95 and above. Then you have green and yellow people and the score between 85 and 90. Crazy as it sounds some of those blue people that scored 95 might get skipped over because you still hace to hire the green and yellow people.

    Excuse my colors I used we all know there are no blue people unless you are apart of willy wonkas chocolate factory but I just didn't wabt to turn this into a race issue.
    NOT TRUE.

    There is not, nor ever was, a set "points bonus" for being any particular race. Certain other methods have been tried, but as stated in the quote above (e.g., "You get 5 points if you are african American") is thoroughly illegal. There WAS a consent decree for every test/hiring going back to the 70s. The old consent decree mandated that each newly hired class must contain at least a certain percentage (12.5% comes to mind, may be wrong) of blacks/African Americans/whatever, even though they may not have scored as well as other races. (Don't think Af. Am. was a term in use at time of decree, so I'm not sure what language was used. Will use black for clarity, no offense intended to anyone.) The administrations of recent history interpreted that to mean that in addition to however many blacks may have scored their way in, they could squeeze in an additional # of candidates.

    Let's hypothetically say they wanted to have a class of 100. Under the decree, even if the top 3000 were all white/other, the class would have the top 87 and then the 13 highest blacks from rank 3001 to whatever. Later, it was seen as, if the hire list contained 50 blacks in top 100 and then the next ranked black candidate was 2651, the class would have 50 blacks (so-called "merit hires"), 37 white/other, PLUS the next 13 blacks (so-called "decree hires") starting from rank 2651.

    Then you also have to consider how many candidates drop out, are knocked off for background issues, drug testing, etc. There is also something called the "rule of two", which is a whole different problem. So those who are the "next rank" may get passed over for many other reasons.

    That consent decree was dissolved as of February 4, 2010.
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpita View Post
    Let's hypothetically say they wanted to have a class of 100. Under the decree, even if the top 3000 were all white/other, the class would have the top 87 and then the 13 highest blacks from rank 3001 to whatever. Later, it was seen as, if the hire list contained 50 blacks in top 100 and then the next ranked black candidate was 2651, the class would have 50 blacks (so-called "merit hires"), 37 white/other, PLUS the next 13 blacks (so-called "decree hires") starting from rank 2651.

    Then you also have to consider how many candidates drop out, are knocked off for background issues, drug testing, etc. There is also something called the "rule of two", which is a whole different problem. So those who are the "next rank" may get passed over for many other reasons. This is precisely what happened to me over those three tests/11 years. I was in the low 400's on that last list I was on, and was told by a friend with political connections that I was passed over into the three and four thousands on the list so that they could get the "preferred demo."

    That consent decree was dissolved as of February 4, 2010.
    And this is precisely why all of these extra bonuses were enacted, why the residential preference was enacted, why the PFD's recruitment unit is working in overdrive right now, and why the test will be rediculously easy

    Oh well, it's like I told my wife the other night- I would have loved to have become a Philly Firefighter, but destiny is a funny thing- had I become a Philly FF, would have I met my wife and had three great kids? Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. But I had to move out of the city in 2003 due to increasing violence in my neighborhood, and I refused to raise my first (at the time) child in that hell hole. Private school at the time was not an option. So I chose to put my house up for sale and thankfully sold it at a profit and moved out of Philadelphia. Dennis Smith had a saying about New York City: "I know this city too well to love it; but I have been here too long to hate it." Same goes for me with Philly. But I am happy (ecstatic in fact) living where I am now, and I would not change my life now as I know it for anything.

    But I would never discourage anyone from trying out for the PFD. It still is one of the greatest FD's in the world in one of the greatest cities in the world (despite all the corruption and political bull****.) I still love the PFD, and will always remain a loyal PFD Buff and supporter.
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    Pita are you taking the test or are you already a ff. I heard you definitely get 5 points for being aa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbask View Post
    Pita are you taking the test or are you already a ff. I heard you definitely get 5 points for being aa.
    He is on the job.

    You do NOT, I repeat DO NOT get 5 points for being AA. It is against FEDERAL LAW. Period. Whoever told you that is a flat out liar or just misinformed.

    NO NO NO extra points for being non-caucasian or any race for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbask View Post
    Pita are you taking the test or are you already a ff. I heard you definitely get 5 points for being aa.
    Already on the job in Philly.

    NO EXTRA POINTS FOR BEING ANY PARTICULAR RACE. I don't care what you "heard", they can't do it. It is illegal. Even IF, IF they were, it has to be spelled out in Civil Service Regulations - and it's not. They did just make a few changes to CSR, to give extra points for being certified PA FF-1 and/or PA EMT. You also get points for being a honorably discharged Vet. If you're a PFD FSP (medic) with 5 yrs of service, you can get points to "cross the floor". If you live in the city, you get "preference", not points...

    {EDIT #2: IF you are the child of a Philadelphia FD or Philadelphia PD LODD, you can get another 10 points/preference if you qualify and pass all parts of the exam. ALL these "added points" qualifiers are listed in the job announcement. If it's not listed, they cannot give points for it.}

    That's it.
    Last edited by mrpita; 07-22-2011 at 12:35 PM. Reason: #1 - spelling; Edit 2 - Forgot an instance of points.
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    What do you think the test is going to be like. Easy or harder then when you took it. Is the academy still held in ne philly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbask View Post
    What do you think the test is going to be like. Easy or harder then when you took it. Is the academy still held in ne philly.



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    Quote Originally Posted by dbask View Post
    What do you think the test is going to be like. Easy or harder then when you took it. Is the academy still held in ne philly.
    Dude....The test is going to be easy. They want their buddies to pass.
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    Any idea how many people may be hired off this list?

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    The first part of the exam (TPM Study Guide) will be pass/fail. No word on what a passing score will be.

    Second part of the exam (WSI) which will also be a written portion will be scored. Once scored extra points will be added for Veteran Preference, FSP, FF 1, EMT, and Legacy.

    After each candidate's final score is determined they will be put into bands. At this time we have been unable to find out how the banding will work. If you do a little reading however on the vendor's website you will see that banding is an alternative to rank order hiring.
    Last edited by philly10; 07-24-2011 at 10:27 AM.

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    The Test Preparation Manual (TPM, 9th Edition) Test

    The TPM portion of the test is designed to measure the ability to read, retain, recall, and comprehend written material. Previous fire experience / knowledge is not required to answer the questions in the test. Every item on the TPM Test comes directly from the related TPM study guide. The study guide consists of five chapters on fire-related content. It is recommended that candidates read the 97-page study guide for four-to-six weeks prior to the examination date.


    The Work Styles Inventory (WSI)

    The WSI portion of the exam is designed to measure important human relations skills that are necessary for successful job performance. There is no study material for this portion of the test.

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    Philly10 thanks for the info. is the combination of TPM and WSI one test just two parts? or is it two different test? thanks for the info again!
    To the men who were there that day, my utmost respect.
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