Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 67
  1. #41
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by auxman View Post
    Is there room on the ambulance to store the honking big gear bag that the FF is going to have to have with him if he is expected to respond as a FF at fire scenes?
    Seriously?


  2. #42
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default Union vs. Non-Union

    Plenty of room.....as the Paramedic will not be going in. There's double the space.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  3. #43
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    I however as Commissioner see more staffing for us and more $$'s in the coffers.
    Are you saying that your department is collecting the third-party billing for these split personnel transports? I'm confused. I think.

    and to me, today, it's hard to justify a stand alone EMS system if there is a Fire Department already doing business in that jurisdiction.
    I'm not sure that some of the best-performing municipal EMS services in the nation would agree with that, Chief. What's PG's Utstein percentage these days?

    And an Absolute YES to having the Medics as active members of the Labor organization which represents the Firefighters.
    They work for two different agencies. I would think they'd need their own Local...?

  4. #44
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    They work for two different agencies. I would think they'd need their own Local...?
    They would likely be in different bargaining units, however they could be in the same Local unless there are local regulations that differ from that of my state.

  5. #45
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    Are you saying that your department is collecting the third-party billing for these split personnel transports? I'm confused. I think.

    Yes we are and you are.


    I'm not sure that some of the best-performing municipal EMS services in the nation would agree with that, Chief. What's PG's Utstein percentage these days?

    Our County does agree with it and we have Q&R's once a month. I'm not a Chief either I'm a Commissioner.

    I'm sure they have their own Union and the last time I checked the I.A.F.F. is a Union for active firefighters. I was a member for thirty years and a life time member of C.S.F.A.
    Last edited by JayDudley; 07-26-2011 at 12:34 AM.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  6. #46
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    Seriously?
    Yeah, not many ambulances I've seen seem to have spare room for a bag the size my gear takes up.

  7. #47
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Post Jay??........

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Are you saying that your department is collecting the third-party billing for these split personnel transports? I'm confused. I think.

    Yes we are and you are.


    I'm not sure that some of the best-performing municipal EMS services in the nation would agree with that, Chief. What's PG's Utstein percentage these days?

    Our County does agree with it and we have Q&R's once a month. I'm not a Chief either I'm a Commissioner.

    I'm sure they have their own Union and the last time I checked the I.A.F.F. is a Union for active firefighters. I was a member for thirty years and a life time member of C.S.F.A.

    Jay, I think that the question was directed at me....... And to answer it I would have to admit that I have no idea who Utstein is or why it matters. We run the show, and provide good service...... Beyond that, my only other opinion, and I stress that it's my opinion, no one else's, is that our type of operation is the most cost effective and the most response oriented type of service model of those available.


    BTW, Congrats on passing the 1,000 Post milestone........
    Last edited by hwoods; 07-26-2011 at 10:59 PM.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  8. #48
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by auxman View Post
    Yeah, not many ambulances I've seen seem to have spare room for a bag the size my gear takes up.
    It's a nearly-standard option for most ambulances now. I can't remember seeing one delivered in these parts (to FD's at least) that didn't have a turnout gear compartment.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  9. #49
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default Union vs. Non-Union

    hwoods.....Your correct as I don't know who or what that is (Utstein). We are trying our best with the tax base we have to provide the best possible service to our tax payers. If by having the County supply one Paramedic per shift to do that then so be it. In a perfect world having the paramedics be FF's also would be great but maybe down the road when our tax base increases.It seems to be a done deal and the Union members are not happy but they can work with us to make it work.

    BTW..I never look at my total as I just try to help....Thanks though.
    Last edited by JayDudley; 07-27-2011 at 12:35 AM.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  10. #50
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by auxman View Post
    Yeah, not many ambulances I've seen seem to have spare room for a bag the size my gear takes up.
    Then either you haven't seen too many ambulances or you have a really, really, really big gear.

    Personally, I've seen very few ambulances that couldn't accommodate a couple gear bags.

  11. #51
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    I'm sure they have their own Union and the last time I checked the I.A.F.F. is a Union for active firefighters. I was a member for thirty years and a life time member of C.S.F.A.
    Actually, the IAFF has started to organize some EMS only agencies. I have 2 new EMS Locals in my immediate area and I think there's a handful or so statewide at the current time.

  12. #52
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default Union vs. Non-Union

    Thanks for the info and I'll pass it on to the Union President. It seems to be a real sticky point of them not wanting to work with non-union / outside agency employees.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  13. #53
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Thanks for the info and I'll pass it on to the Union President. It seems to be a real sticky point of them not wanting to work with non-union / outside agency employees.
    It seems pretty clear you had your mind made up before this thread was even started. I know you may feel this is just casual talk, but remember you are speaking as a fire commissioner, not as Jay, the retired guy. I guess I struggle with the fact that you are an elected, or appointed official making public comment, which to me seems it would further incite what sounds like a sensitive issue to the employees who work for the agency you represent. At this point it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, the question is how much damage, if any will this create in regards to relationships with the employees. You have painted the union president as a person with lack of vision (when you speak of him, you really are speaking of all of them). The union in your organization is not a guy off the line with an executive board, and money behind him, they are a recently established local with very few members. I would suggest you work with them Jay, privately, appraise their efforts for trying to protect their organization. I think it's clear you are having to make a tough decision that may not rule in their favor, and probably came on here looking for some open advice with no intent to do harm, and that is understandable, just do it with a little more dignity and respect for those who work for you. These people are going to be with you after this thread is long gone and the decision has been made. I think you are a reasonable person Jay, I hope the best choice is made for your district, but at this point I feel your union members dont deserve to be put in negative light without any representation.

  14. #54
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default Union vs. Non-Union

    Wow...If you perceive that this is what you see then I'm sorry. We have an excellent relationship with our Union and he has stated that they can work with what we decide. I have checked with the IAFF and found out that they DO have Locals who are EMS and not Firefighters. I by all means did not go into this with my mind made up and we as a Commission do work with our employees. To say so otherwise is the wrong impression to make. I am an elected official who has had the luxury of being on the other side of the table and was and still am a member of the IAFF. So when it comes to the well being of our Local....I do have their interests in mind and have gone the distance to support them.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  15. #55
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Wow...If you perceive that this is what you see then I'm sorry. We have an excellent relationship with our Union and he has stated that they can work with what we decide. I have checked with the IAFF and found out that they DO have Locals who are EMS and not Firefighters. I by all means did not go into this with my mind made up and we as a Commission do work with our employees. To say so otherwise is the wrong impression to make. I am an elected official who has had the luxury of being on the other side of the table and was and still am a member of the IAFF. So when it comes to the well being of our Local....I do have their interests in mind and have gone the distance to support them.
    Thanks Jay for explaining, and I want to apologize as I am only seeing this from one side. I didnt think anything less, but as I read your posts regarding the union president, it led me to believe otherwise. Of course, you are much closer to the issue and I only have a snap shot from your posts.....again, thanks for explaining.

  16. #56
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Wow...If you perceive that this is what you see then I'm sorry. We have an excellent relationship with our Union and he has stated that they can work with what we decide. I have checked with the IAFF and found out that they DO have Locals who are EMS and not Firefighters. I by all means did not go into this with my mind made up and we as a Commission do work with our employees. To say so otherwise is the wrong impression to make. I am an elected official who has had the luxury of being on the other side of the table and was and still am a member of the IAFF. So when it comes to the well being of our Local....I do have their interests in mind and have gone the distance to support them.

    Like FireMedic049 said, there are EMS-only locals in the IAFF, but there are stipulations to it. The big one is that the EMS agency must be a government entity, either local or county. The IAFF also looks at the individual department and its stability, such as likelihood of sustainment and past employee turnover rate. Our EMS department had to go through this process a few years ago when we joined, and had to prove that we had a lower turnover rate than surrounding EMS agencies.

  17. #57
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FFMedic31 View Post
    Like FireMedic049 said, there are EMS-only locals in the IAFF, but there are stipulations to it. The big one is that the EMS agency must be a government entity, either local or county.
    I'm not so sure about that one being the case. Neither of the two EMS Locals in my area are Municipally run services. The one is hospital based and the other is private, non-profit.

  18. #58
    Forum Member JayDudley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,267

    Default Union vs. Non-Union

    Our EMS is County based...so I think there will be no problem except that they "Want" to join. I was given the name and number for their representative to call if they are interested.

    Thanks again for all of the suggestions as I knew this was the place to go to get answers...
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
    Retired Fire
    Background Investigator
    IACOJ-Member
    Lifetime Member CSFA
    IAFF Alumni Member

  19. #59
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDudley View Post
    Yes we are and you are.
    Nope, I'm crystal clear now. The county EMS paramedics are doing the work (sometimes by themselves, as we've already established), and you're collecting the money. I'd love to meet the EMS administrator that agreed to this.

    In the simplest layman's terms, a Utstein percentage is how many cardiac arrest patients from a given EMS system that are discharged from the hospital alive. Places like Wake County and Boston EMS have Utstein percentages in the 40's. Your DCs, Chicagos, and Detroits are somewhere below (usually far below) 10%.

    It's commonly considered a measurement of how advanced, effective, and competent an EMS system and its providers are, and helps identify areas for improvement.

    The systems that have no idea what their Utstein is... well, that's usually a sign of larger issues.

    It seems to be a real sticky point of them not wanting to work with non-union / outside agency employees.
    So send your three guys back to the trucks and send the medics back to their agency.

    I am an elected official who has had the luxury of being on the other side of the table and was and still am a member of the IAFF.
    So you're a member of the union you're supposed to negotiate with? How has no one raised a conflict of interest issue about this yet?

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emt161 View Post
    So you're a member of the union you're supposed to negotiate with? How has no one raised a conflict of interest issue about this yet?
    Because it probably isn't an issue.

    In all likelihood he a non-active member of the Local, assuming that is where he worked as an IAFF member. The IAFF has provisions that allow a person promoted out of the bargaining unit to remain a member of the IAFF while serving in that position - essentially a "leave of absence" kind of thing.

    For example, my department's chief is still an IAFF member, but is not involved with our Local.

    Additionally, he may or may not be directly involved with union negotiations. In my department, we negotiate with the City, not the Fire Chief (we don't have a Commissioner) although the City may consult with him on some matters.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts