Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37
  1. #1
    Forum Member ziggy171's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    98

    Default Man Down on Roof

    here is one I heard on the radio the other day. Lets see what we can come up with.

    FD and Ambulance dispatched for a man having a seizure. The patient is on a roof as a part of a roofing crew. The patient is lethargic and unable to walk down a ladder. The house is in a rural setting and Ladder Truck access is unavailable. Unknown how many store house it is.

    How do you safely get the patient down and to EMS?


  2. #2
    Forum Member axemanst3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    eastern shore of md
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Providing that there is not a tower available or there are wires or other obstructions in the way, I would do a knee style carry down an extension ladder.
    JOHN 15:13

    ISAIAH 43:2



    1st Asst. Chief Ray Johns

    FF/NREMT-B

    Marion Volunteer Fire Department

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    If it's only a few stories high then use an extra high ladder, Bangor or whatever, at a very shallow angle as a ramp to lower the patient in a stokes basket.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  4. #4
    Forum Member RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    This or a backboard with extra straps on it.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  5. #5
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    If the roof is too high for ladders I would rig a simple R/L systems with a tag line manned on the ground and lower the patient lashed in a Stokes basket.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  6. #6
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    We would (and have) sked'ed them down the aerial.

    Just read no aerial... then the 45 foot bangor. Good times.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    North East Coast
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Did I read something wrong, they are a roofing crew. I believe they got there by ladders not divine intervention. Now FD ladders and stokes if the angle is safe. or GT's solution. Now for the off the wall solution if neither of the above is workable. Cut a hole in roof and use the interior to remove him a lot easier to belay a stokes 8' than 30. The healthy guys left on the roofing crew can fix the hole later(joke) Unfortunately I have been involved with similar situations involving heavy people where walls were removed and winches used. It doesn't hurt to think outside of the box
    On a side not to LTjohns knee lower works great for an unconscious victim don't recommend you try it with a lethargic or person with altered mental status
    PEACE

  8. #8
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Easyrider View Post
    Did I read something wrong, they are a roofing crew. I believe they got there by ladders not divine intervention. Now FD ladders and stokes if the angle is safe. or GT's solution. Now for the off the wall solution if neither of the above is workable. Cut a hole in roof and use the interior to remove him a lot easier to belay a stokes 8' than 30. The healthy guys left on the roofing crew can fix the hole later(joke) Unfortunately I have been involved with similar situations involving heavy people where walls were removed and winches used. It doesn't hurt to think outside of the box
    On a side not to LTjohns knee lower works great for an unconscious victim don't recommend you try it with a lethargic or person with altered mental status
    PEACE
    Good point, but have you seen the ladders they use? Rickety junk.

    I like cutting a hole.. as you said, they can fix it, no sweat!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    North East Coast
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Good point, but have you seen the ladders they use? Rickety junk.

    I like cutting a hole.. as you said, they can fix it, no sweat!
    Yes I agree, rickety at best, that's why I noted FD ladders and stokes.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    If the roof is too high for ladders I would rig a simple R/L systems with a tag line manned on the ground and lower the patient lashed in a Stokes basket.
    That was my first thought, but couldn't think of an easy way to rig a high-point. I'm not a tech rescue guy but I'd think you'd want something above the roof line so that you can load the rope before going over the edge. A bipod setup would be perfect, if available.

    Another thought: Could the guy be strapped to a stairchair and lowered down a ladder at a steeper angle?
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  11. #11
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,238

    Default

    We did this last year using a Stokes basket controlled from the top of a 35' ladder with a simple rigging system, and simply slowly slid the Stokes down between the rungs of the ladder.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  12. #12
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    We did this last year using a Stokes basket controlled from the top of a 35' ladder with a simple rigging system, and simply slowly slid the Stokes down between the rungs of the ladder.
    We've found that most stokes are wider then the distance between the rails. Even on our aerial. This is why we went to a Sked for those applications.

    For those of you who haven't actually drilled on this, you should. It would be an awkward moment when you realize that the stokes, she don't fit!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  13. #13
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    We've found that most stokes are wider then the distance between the rails. Even on our aerial. This is why we went to a Sked for those applications.

    For those of you who haven't actually drilled on this, you should. It would be an awkward moment when you realize that the stokes, she don't fit!
    Yeah, the top fly section was a little questionable, but as it transitioned to the second fly, it wasn't so bad. Not a textbook operation, but we were forced to improvise with what we had.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  14. #14
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    That was my first thought, but couldn't think of an easy way to rig a high-point. I'm not a tech rescue guy but I'd think you'd want something above the roof line so that you can load the rope before going over the edge. A bipod setup would be perfect, if available.

    Another thought: Could the guy be strapped to a stairchair and lowered down a ladder at a steeper angle?
    Honestly I dont I know that I would be concerned with just lowering the basket over the edge. Granted, a high point would be great if possible, but for this situation, lowering over the dge wouldn't be out of the question. For me anyway.

    I like the cutting the roof idea. You may be able to just carry them down the interior stairs after that.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    For the purposes of making an edge transition without a high change of direction you can use 2 metal pike poles. (Do Not use those fiberglass or wooden pike poles) Use the pike poles as levers to ease the transition over the edge and then it becomes a simple lower. I've done this a few times and it actually works quite well when the guys on the poles are working together.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2FF View Post
    For the purposes of making an edge transition without a high change of direction you can use 2 metal pike poles. (Do Not use those fiberglass or wooden pike poles) Use the pike poles as levers to ease the transition over the edge and then it becomes a simple lower. I've done this a few times and it actually works quite well when the guys on the poles are working together.
    Pics? I think you're describing making a bipod out of two poles lashed together, right?
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  17. #17
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    Pics? I think you're describing making a bipod out of two poles lashed together, right?
    No, I dont have pics of the operation but look at it like two parallel levers about 2/3rds the length of the stokes basket apart (basically where the shoulders and back of the knees of the victim are in the stokes.) Lay the metal poles flat on the ground and place the loaded stokes at the edge already rigged with belay and mainline. Also 2-40' peices of webbing girth hitched (use the middle of the webbing to make the hitch so you have 2-20' tails) on one rail of the stokes. Take one tail of the webbing and run it under the stokes and through the rail. The webbing is used to keep the stokes level during the edge transition. Now with one person on each pole and one person each on the webbing as well as the people on the main line and belay, begin lifting the poles to slide the stokes over the edge. As the poles are lifted the webbing tenders maintain level and lower the stokes into position with the main and belay being placed on some edge protection. This could work with parapet walls but works best with a flat roof and edge.

    Sorry if this isnt explained well. I will see if I can get pics later.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber voyager9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    2,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2FF View Post
    Lay the metal poles flat on the ground and place the loaded stokes at the edge already rigged with belay and mainline.
    I think I got it. Key piece I was missing is that the poles start out laying flat and perpendicular to the edge. You said they were levers to angle the stokes over the edge but I was missing the connection.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

  19. #19
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    Gotcha. We've done this several times with stokes edge transitions and it works well when the edge guy is the only one giving orders. If too many people start trying to give commands it gets messed up in a hurry.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  20. #20
    Forum Member ziggy171's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    98

    Default

    I like what voyager said. Around here is mainly 1-2 story ranch style houses and a 35' ladder at a flat angle and sliding them s\down in a stokes would work great. We could even set up a ladder on each side to send a firefighter down on both sides to steady the basket and help it if it gets stuck. I see a training drill in our future...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 09-22-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2005, 07:37 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 05-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-18-2005, 08:53 AM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 01-08-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-13-2005, 10:36 PM
  4. 2 man engines don't work!!!!!!!!!!!
    By mk231975 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 05-11-2003, 10:33 PM
  5. Advice on Roof Removal with Roof Airbags
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-24-2001, 10:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts