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Thread: Popularity of VES

  1. #201
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Tell me who here has advocated willy nilly busting out the window without communicating the intent to VES? You haven't proved I said it because you CAN'T. Yet you keep repeating the same BS over and over and over.

    Tell me who has advocated burning people inside by improper venting? You haven't proved I said it because you CAN'T. Yet you keep repeating the same BS over and over.

    People that have nothing more to say, or can't logically disprove another's viewpoint tend to repeat the same wrong information over and over hoping others will start to believe it is the truth. Sorry, I am not going to let you get away with that.

    I said in my first post venting in the wrong place, or at the wrong time, can hurt or kill those inside the building.

    I also said in my first post that communication with the inside crews was imperative.

    Tell me what you fail to understand about that? I said both of those things before you ever joined the topic PROFESSOR.

    So, how about you get back to lecturing the masses that you can convince your way is the ONLY way, while the rest of us keep more than a sledge hammer in the tactical tool box.
    No one here is condoning freelance venting, I have read this thread 3 times. I don't understand where his ranting is comming from... or going.

    Damn man you would think we were saying that we are going to use a 12 gauge to take the window with. We vent with tools from the ladder, I am fine with that. But if we changed to busting the glass with the ladder tip that would be fine to.
    Bring enough hose.


  2. #202
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    No one here is condoning freelance venting, I have read this thread 3 times. I don't understand where his ranting is comming from... or going.

    Neither does anyone else. Funny isn't it?

    Damn man you would think we were saying that we are going to use a 12 gauge to take the window with. We vent with tools from the ladder, I am fine with that. But if we changed to busting the glass with the ladder tip that would be fine to.

    I am okay with either method. If anyone's department has a set method for doing VES, and that is the only method allowed, so be it. But with a minimally staffed crew, where other members are involved in other tactical operations, using the ladder speeds up the entire VES process by taking out most of the window in one fell swoop.
    Let's see what tomorrow brings.

    Because now it is Christmas Eve morning and I have to leave for the firehouse in about 4 hours.

    Merry Christmas, stay safe out there!
    Last edited by FyredUp; 12-24-2011 at 02:30 AM.
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  3. #203
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    I am by no means experienced with VES. We train on it, but I have done it maybe only 3-4 times in 17 years. With that said, please tell me the advantage of looking in the window first. I understand letting the interior guys know what is going on, just not sure what difference it makes if you do that before you bust the window with the ladder or with the halligan?

    Is it to see conditions or to possibly get a layout of the room or to see if a victim is inside?
    Last edited by Spencer534; 12-24-2011 at 04:20 AM.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    People that have nothing more to say, or can't logically disprove another's viewpoint tend to repeat the same wrong information over and over hoping others will start to believe it is the truth.
    Agreed.

    When are you going to stop?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I am by no means experienced with VES. We train on it, but I have done it maybe only 3-4 times in 17 years. With that said, please tell me the advantage of looking in the window first. I understand letting the interior guys know what is going on, just not sure what difference it makes if you do that before you bust the window with the ladder or with the halligan?

    Is it to see conditions or to possibly get a layout of the room or to see if a victim is inside?
    The advantages have been stated numerous times.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    The advantages have been stated numerous times.
    I went back and read through the posts again and the reasons below were stated. I am trying to get the most out of this thread as possible, so I need some clarification. You need to look into the window first to see:

    1) The conditions inside - If this is the fire room or about to flash, you dont want to enter obviously. Wouldnt boiling/dense smoke coming from the window tell me the same thing? If this is the fire room, isnt that where I want to provide ventilation (wouldnt continue with the ES)?
    2) To see if occupants are just inside - If they are, wont I break the window to get them unless above the conditions above exist?

    We were taught to take the window with the ladder, so if that is not the right thing to do, I want to be clear on why not.

  7. #207
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    Agreed.

    When are you going to stop?
    You have repeatedly LIED about what I have said. When called on it and even proven WRONG you continue to LIE about what I said.

    Yes, Jakesdad I am flat out calling you a LIAR. Prove one time that I said what you say I have. Let's see some quptes. You won't do it because you can't.

    You talk about credibility, yet you continuously LIE over and over and over again. Where are all the people lining up behind you? They aren't and others have questioned your desperate need to be right and called you on your ranting.

    Have a nice day or don't, you'd probably lie about it anyways.
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  8. #208
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I went back and read through the posts again and the reasons below were stated. I am trying to get the most out of this thread as possible, so I need some clarification. You need to look into the window first to see:

    1) The conditions inside - If this is the fire room or about to flash, you dont want to enter obviously. Wouldnt boiling/dense smoke coming from the window tell me the same thing? If this is the fire room, isnt that where I want to provide ventilation (wouldnt continue with the ES)?
    2) To see if occupants are just inside - If they are, wont I break the window to get them unless above the conditions above exist?

    We were taught to take the window with the ladder, so if that is not the right thing to do, I want to be clear on why not.
    Because jakesdad says so and that is a good enough reason.
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  9. #209
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakesdad View Post
    What I find even more frustrating it the lack of understanding of just how much effect ventilation has on a fire, both positively and negatively.

    Seems that any discussion regarding VES should at least mention those effects and ways to minimize the negative ones.
    You seen really caught up on this whole ventilation thing. Let me say this, yet again...

    If we are performing VES we are there to possibly save a life. I don't care about the effect on the building that my taking of a window will have. Burn the SOB down...if we make a rescue, it is worth it. Once again, since I know what your rebuttal will be, AGAIN, we don't do a whole lot of VES with crews inside. So that is not a concern either.

    It has nothing to do with not understanding. It simply isn't a priority when we have better things to worry about.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  10. #210
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    I guess I should keep quiet as jake has 'dismissed " me as not understanding. The little nugget I tried to add ( basically pausing for a moment) was taught to me by an instructor that was fighting fires in the 40s.
    But jakesdad , you are coming across as some one who talks down to every one, maybe not your intent , but thats the way you come off to me. The most basic firefighting class has cordinated as one of its key words when teaching ventilation. I think every one that has posted understands the consequenses (My browser wont let me use spell check) of venting done wrong. Fyredup gets fired up , but I dont remember him talking down to folks.
    ?

  11. #211
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    You seen really caught up on this whole ventilation thing. Let me say this, yet again...

    If we are performing VES we are there to possibly save a life. I don't care about the effect on the building that my taking of a window will have. Burn the SOB down...if we make a rescue, it is worth it. Once again, since I know what your rebuttal will be, AGAIN, we don't do a whole lot of VES with crews inside. So that is not a concern either.

    It has nothing to do with not understanding. It simply isn't a priority when we have better things to worry about.

    Good for you, but others do it at every fire, as routine, not just when mommy is outside screaming. For us, killing members inside or losing a building is a concern, so please stop.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 12-24-2011 at 07:27 PM.
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  12. #212
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Good for you, but others do it at every fire, as routine, not just when mommy is outside screaming. For us, killing members inside or losing a building is a concern, so please stop.
    Look something YOU need to understand is the difference in manpower. I believe your staffing on engines is mostly 5 and your trucks are mostly 6. Well my career FD runs normally 3 on an engine and 4 on a truck or quint. So when we run a still we get an engine or quint, with another engine, a truck and a med unit. So we get 12/13 firefighters on scene. If you run the equivalent, without the med unit, you get with 2 engines and a truck, you get up to 16 firefighters. But I think normally don't you get 3 engines and 2 trucks? So that bumps it to 27 firefighters. Most days that is more than we have on duty total. What's my point? With more than twice as many guys on scene, and very deep resources, it is obviouly easier to accomplish more tactical operations simultaneously.

    We do use VES, just not automatically at EVERY fire. We use it when the ciircumstances call for it. We coordinate fireground activities, to avoid burning or killing firefighters or civilians by improper ventilation.

    I would NEVER presume to tell you what YOU do is wrong for your circumstances and staffing. I would hope you would pay me the same courtesy with our cicumstances and staffing.

    Merry Christmas.
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  13. #213
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Look something YOU need to understand is the difference in manpower. I believe your staffing on engines is mostly 5 and your trucks are mostly 6. Well my career FD runs normally 3 on an engine and 4 on a truck or quint. So when we run a still we get an engine or quint, with another engine, a truck and a med unit. So we get 12/13 firefighters on scene. If you run the equivalent, without the med unit, you get with 2 engines and a truck, you get up to 16 firefighters. But I think normally don't you get 3 engines and 2 trucks? So that bumps it to 27 firefighters. Most days that is more than we have on duty total. What's my point? With more than twice as many guys on scene, and very deep resources, it is obviouly easier to accomplish more tactical operations simultaneously.

    We do use VES, just not automatically at EVERY fire. We use it when the ciircumstances call for it. We coordinate fireground activities, to avoid burning or killing firefighters or civilians by improper ventilation.

    I would NEVER presume to tell you what YOU do is wrong for your circumstances and staffing. I would hope you would pay me the same courtesy with our cicumstances and staffing.

    Merry Christmas.

    Except Im not telling anyone anything, the problem is those with less than adequate staffing are here telling US we are are wrong (even calling someone a safety sally for wanting to check conditions with those operating inside. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?). Read through the thread, the only things I said that someone was doing wrong involved the actual VES tactics.

    Stay safe bro, merry christmas.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  14. #214
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Except Im not telling anyone anything, the problem is those with less than adequate staffing are here telling US we are are wrong (even calling someone a safety sally for wanting to check conditions with those operating inside. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?). Read through the thread, the only things I said that someone was doing wrong involved the actual VES tactics.

    Stay safe bro, merry christmas.
    I never said anyone was wrong.

    In my first post I talked about the adverse effect of ventilation on interior crews if done wrong, in the wrong place, or at the wrong time. Coordination between any ventilation, including VES and interior crews is vital.

    You stay safe also My Brother. Have a Merry Christmas!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  15. #215
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    Except Im not telling anyone anything, the problem is those with less than adequate staffing are here telling US we are are wrong (even calling someone a safety sally for wanting to check conditions with those operating inside. ARE YOU F*CKING KIDDING ME?). Read through the thread, the only things I said that someone was doing wrong involved the actual VES tactics.

    Stay safe bro, merry christmas.
    I don't recall saying anyone else's way of doing this was wrong. This is a forum made up of members from all over the country. Of course we are going to have different ways of doing things.

    The problem is that one member refuses to accept the fact that his way may not be the right way for everyone. Both could be correct and applicable in their given circumstances and locations.

    Merry Christmas and safe wishes to ALL of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I don't recall saying anyone else's way of doing this was wrong. This is a forum made up of members from all over the country. Of course we are going to have different ways of doing things.

    The problem is that one member refuses to accept the fact that his way may not be the right way for everyone. Both could be correct and applicable in their given circumstances and locations.

    Merry Christmas and safe wishes to ALL of you.

    Except by you mocking a process we have been using for a very long time, as well as saying we are too concerned with losing a building (lol) you ARE saying its wrong. Go back and read the post of yours i quoted (the one when i said you are doing it wrong, and i stand by that) and re-read it.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  17. #217
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    Can we please get the mudder vented, before we lose da building.

    It's already a 10-75 now.

    Going to strike the duece now.


    K
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Can we please get the mudder vented, before we lose da building.

    It's already a 10-75 now.

    Going to strike the duece now.


    K
    10-75? Now you've done it! You are sure to have awakened the NIMS police...
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  19. #219
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    We have a 10-70, need 10-47, 10-33
    Bring enough hose.

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    Engine ten is 10-96 to 10 10 tenth street -10-4 ?
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