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  1. #1
    Forum Member 1OLDTIMER's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Highway safety unit:

    INCORRECT FORUM...

    SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN RESPONDER HIGHWAY SAFETY

    http://www.firerescue1.com/fire-prod...ruck-unveiled/
    Last edited by 1OLDTIMER; 08-12-2011 at 08:01 AM. Reason: INCORRECT FORUM...MOVED
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower


  2. #2
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    We don't use our rigs as blockers on the highway/interstate. LEO is always on scene with lane and traffic controls before the rigs get there. We have the State Patrol, Douglas County Sheriff, and/or OPD on scene very, very, quickly.

    I have a couple issues with using the above, but I'll keep them to myself.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    (edited)...


    I have a couple issues with using the above, but I'll keep them to myself.

    FM1
    C'mon, share! Everyone who I've talked to about this kinda had the same reaction - why haven't we all been doing this all along? Of course, we're a long way from getting anything like this. But if you have "cons", I'd like to hear them.

    I do see a few cons, but they're mostly administrative - we'd need X amount of them because of all the highways we cover, it's taking away from our apparatus budget (too thin as it is), where to store them - we're running out of space and not building new firehouses soon, etc.
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

  4. #4
    Forum Member 1OLDTIMER's Avatar
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    We don't use our rigs as blockers on the highway/interstate. LEO is always on scene with lane and traffic controls before the rigs get there. We have the State Patrol, Douglas County Sheriff, and/or OPD on scene very, very, quickly.

    I have a couple issues with using the above, but I'll keep them to myself.
    FM1
    C'mon, share! This is a place for discussion and sharing of idea's etc. As for responce with this type of unit, personally I think it should be done with a PD officer (only takes one) to get the thing to the incident, as technically it is their responsibility for highway safety. If responce by FD, again it would only take one person to get it there, and that would not have to be a highly trained firefighter / specialist to drive a dump truck. Highway depts. and construction crews have been using these for years...obviously with success.

    Or else, just stage a million-dollar truck there for some moron to smash up.
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

  5. #5
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    OK, here we go....

    Our state trucks that do Interstate work use them when working on the Interstate. That is all fine and dandy. They are there to block THAT lane, and THAT lane only. They are also only effective IF it is a direct hit from the rear. They still have had people injured while working when a vehicle has hit it at an angle and pushing the barrier against the workers. As well, debris has also been noted to hit the workers.

    Now look on the FD side. You usually need to block off 2 lanes for a secure environment. Using that at an angle may minimize damage, but not completely. If you want to cover 2 lanes, you need 2 of them, and 2 drivers. Hmm, where did the drivers come from??? Yeah, the rig that is responding to the call, who is, more than likely, one less for manpower on scene.

    As I said above, we don't use our rigs for blocking. We have LEO on scene before the FD rigs arrive. And with the manpower and location of this rig, it may be too late, or not early enough to be worthwhile to have. For us to use this effectively, would require 3-5 of them, at least, to be on the safe side, and cover the whole area that they respond to.

    Now you have a free rig for safety. Guess what, that rig won't be as free as you think when it needs to be PM'd. Yep, it is OOS, and no use at all, for 3-5 days. It is also old, and worn out. Reason for why you got it for free.

    I'll give some too. If it works for you, cool. But it doesn't work everywhere, for everyone.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  6. #6
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    I think using fire apparatus is the only real practical way to create a safe zone for working on the highway.

    A police car doesn't cut it.

    Watch the amount of precaution used for most road work. Miles of cones and warning signs and then a few "bump" trucks.

    I'd rather have a piece of apparatus down then four guys.

    I think what this department did will become more and more popular in the future. Thumbs up!
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 08-13-2011 at 08:22 AM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #7
    Forum Member rschultzjr's Avatar
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    Well you may have LEO's to block for you but that isn't the case for all places. Honestly I would rather use my fire truck to block a lane or two rather than a police car because if they hit a cruiser at 70 mph or more that cruiser will move and a fire truck that is big and heavy will move but not near as much. Don't get me wrong I really don't want my apparatus hit but if its gonna save a life of a patient or emergency worker than its worth it.

  8. #8
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    LEO's don't block, they control traffic, HUGE difference.

    We have over 80 miles of Interstate traffic that the FD covers, and we have NEVER had an apparatus hit, nor a FF injured.

    Lucky, maybe. But our LEO's, as said, are VERY quick to control traffic and lanes.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  9. #9
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    LEO's don't block, they control traffic, HUGE difference.

    We have over 80 miles of Interstate traffic that the FD covers, and we have NEVER had an apparatus hit, nor a FF injured.

    Lucky, maybe. But our LEO's, as said, are VERY quick to control traffic and lanes.

    FM1
    You have rock-star LEO's.... Our local guys are great. State PD, a real mixed bag.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  10. #10
    Forum Member SCOOBY14B's Avatar
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    We cover I85 (6 lanes each way). We ALWAYS position the apparatus at an angle (30 degree) to protect the scene.

    This ISN'T to minimize damage, it is to ensure that the impact is deflected AWAY from the scene and the apparatus does not roll into the scene if a large vehicle hits.

    REMEMBER, PD (at least ours) is wanting to MINIMIZE traffic delays, they are not concerned with scene safety.

    Now, I have been on scene more than once when a PD cruiser is hit and even a 3000lb passenger car will move a cruise quite a distance.

    I've been driving twice and hit on interstate. Once by a pickup truck and once by an 18k lb box truck. The box truck "scooted" the truck some even with chocks out. Imagine what it would do to a cruiser, and imagine an 80k lb tractor trailer.

    Interstate work is one of our most dangerous areas of operation (minus gangs) and I WILL DO whatever it takes to protect the crew.

    BTW: I've been on a scene that was isolated to a turning lane and everyone was parked in line behind one another. When I walked up to the driver's window of one of the vehicles I was struck by the mirror of a passing car. It WOULD NOT have happened had the scene been protected like it should have been.

  11. #11
    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You have rock-star LEO's.... Our local guys are great. State PD, a real mixed bag.
    I learned real quick of the camaraderie/respect between the FD, and the State Patrol, County Sheriff, and local PD. Whenever I'm shuffling rigs on the interstate, I get a couple siren chirps when they pass me. As well, a reaching arm waving.

    I sorta dismissed it at first, not thinking a whole lot about it. But after being a witness to a serious MVA in my service truck, they opened my eyes. And with that, I try to wave first when approached by any LEO, or give a couple quick taps of the air horn, to acknowledge them.

    The last thing I want to do, is give some LEO a bad impression of the FD.

    FM1
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 08-17-2011 at 02:48 AM.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  12. #12
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Our state pd derisively call most first responders "blue-lighters", on the radio, no less.

    They even arrested a nearby chief for "taking a lane" when that chief thought his guys were in an unsafe situation. I have never been treated worse, on scene, then by the njsp. It got so bad on one scene that I requested our township police sgt come up on the interstate to try to deescalate one really obnoxious trooper (didn't work, he crapped all over the local cop).

    I'm not one to talk badly of other first responders and am quick to praise those who deserve it (like our cops). There are some good troopers, but 50 percent of the time we got crap from them. That is way too often.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  13. #13
    Forum Member 1OLDTIMER's Avatar
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    Default Firefighters Struck at Crash Scene:

    Sat, 08/20/2011 - 09:23am

    Two Raleigh firefighters sustained minor injuries Friday afternoon when they were hit by a car while on the scene of a two-vehicle crash, according to WTVD.

    The incident occurred on I-40 near Hammond Road. Both firefighters were transported to the hospital for treatment. Three people from the original collision were also hospitalized.
    I wonder how (or if) THIS scene was 'protected' ? Maybe if an old (junk) dump truck had been 200' back to take the impact...the F/F's would not have been hit at all...

    Thank God they only received minor injuries...

    http://www.firehouse.com/news/top-he...ck-crash-scene
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

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