Thread: Seatbelts ?

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    Default Seatbelts ?

    Firefighter injured after falling off truck responding to call:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,5002536.story

    Department spokesman Chief Kevin Cartwright said the firefighter fell off a fire truck that was turning a corner while en route to the 3000 block of Liberty Heights Ave. shortly after noon.

    The firefighter suffered injuries to his head and elbow, including lacerations, and was taken to the Maryland Shock Trauma Center as a precaution, Cartwright said. The firefighter DID NOT appear to have fractures or life-threatening injuries, he said. Cartwright said the Truck Company No. 12 firefighter had been in the cab of the truck and WORE A SEAT BELT, and an investigation was underway to determine how he fell.
    First, I am pleased that the (un-named) F/F is apparently going to be OK.

    However with common-sense thinking, it is degrading to anyone to not have many questions' on this incident...as I find it nearly impossible to believe how someone could fall out of ANY vehicle...with a SEAT BELT ON, unless of course it's a rollover.

    maybe...?

    1. the F/F did not have his seat belt on, and the door latching mech. was faulty or the door was not closed tighty...
    2. the door latch failed, and split seconds later the seat belt failed
    3. the reporter did not get the story right...asking no questions, which today is SOP for most 'reporters' everywhere.

    In any case, I feel there needs to be a FULL investigation into this by NFPA; the Apparatus mfgr. Association; the NTSB; DHS and everyone else regarding VEHICLE SAFETY...especially for fire apparatus. I thought NOT 'riding-on-the-tailboard' and 4-dr. cabs would solved this issue.
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    In any case, I feel there needs to be a FULL investigation into this by NFPA;
    I should think an OSHA investigation should be sufficient. Unless, of course, they determine that the highly unlikely simultaneous failure of the seat belt and door latch actually happened...
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    Firefighter injured after falling off truck responding to call:

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,5002536.story



    First, I am pleased that the (un-named) F/F is apparently going to be OK.

    However with common-sense thinking, it is degrading to anyone to not have many questions' on this incident...as I find it nearly impossible to believe how someone could fall out of ANY vehicle...with a SEAT BELT ON, unless of course it's a rollover.

    maybe...?

    1. the F/F did not have his seat belt on, and the door latching mech. was faulty or the door was not closed tighty...
    2. the door latch failed, and split seconds later the seat belt failed
    3. the reporter did not get the story right...asking no questions, which today is SOP for most 'reporters' everywhere.

    In any case, I feel there needs to be a FULL investigation into this by NFPA; the Apparatus mfgr. Association; the NTSB; DHS and everyone else regarding VEHICLE SAFETY...especially for fire apparatus. I thought NOT 'riding-on-the-tailboard' and 4-dr. cabs would solved this issue.


    Don't guess, let Baltimore and the powers that are find out and report the findings.

    I would never begin to make a guess on something, that I wasn't there to see and only what I read in a story in the SUN!!

    I am sure Chief Clack would welcome your help in this.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Question

    I am certainly scratching my head over this one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    I am certainly scratching my head over this one!
    I blame it on the Aliens.. or the Congressional Super Committee.. or those sinister folks that put fruit in the bottom of my yogurt.
    So you call this your free country
    Tell me why it costs so much to live
    -3dd

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Don't guess, let Baltimore and the powers that are find out and report the findings.I would never begin to make a guess on something, that I wasn't there to see and only what I read in a story in the SUN!!

    I am sure Chief Clack would welcome your help in this.
    You are absolutely correct Capt, but...I would bet my next months retirement check...that the "report" on what REALLY happened, will never be made public...and unless one is an 'insider', it will never make it out of the kitchen at Truck 12's house.
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
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    I said this before and got blasted, BUT it looks like fire apparatus manufacturers need to do something about these doors. They seem to fly open A LOT! I've driven a lot more miles in a car than a fire truck, but I've yet to see my car door fly open once. I've seen fire truck doors do it multiple times.

    I'm not going to comment on this situation, but just think about all of these types of stories. If the door never comes open, we wouldn't be reading the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I said this before and got blasted, BUT it looks like fire apparatus manufacturers need to do something about these doors. They seem to fly open A LOT! I've driven a lot more miles in a car than a fire truck, but I've yet to see my car door fly open once. I've seen fire truck doors do it multiple times.

    I'm not going to comment on this situation, but just think about all of these types of stories. If the door never comes open, we wouldn't be reading the article.
    Absolutely, but...the SEAT BELT (he was wearing) should have held him in place regardless of the action of the door...yes/no?
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Default Things that make you go hmmmmmmm!

    "Cartwright said the Truck Company No. 12 firefighter had been in the cab of the truck and WORE A SEAT BELT."

    Hmmmm for some reason, I'm not really believing that he was both in the truck and wearing a seat belt. Granted I have been wrong before. Although I do believe that anytime something like this happens it shouldn't be left up to the department itself to investigate it, my opinion is that it should be investigated by a third party with no ties to members or the department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    I said this before and got blasted, BUT it looks like fire apparatus manufacturers need to do something about these doors. They seem to fly open A LOT! I've driven a lot more miles in a car than a fire truck, but I've yet to see my car door fly open once. I've seen fire truck doors do it multiple times.

    I'm not going to comment on this situation, but just think about all of these types of stories. If the door never comes open, we wouldn't be reading the article.
    If the Firefighter was wearing their seatbelt, we would not be reading this article either.

    No, doors should not be flying open. But if proper safety procedures (which are also common sense) are followed, the door can fly open with no real risk.

    Usually doors unlatching and coming open is a maintenance issue with latches not being readjusted to compensate for wear. Or maybe their is a flaw in the design? In any event, wear your seatbelts and their will be no risk from falling out.

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    Whats to say that he was in the front cab of the truck. Maybe he was in the tiller cab. How many times have you seen a tiller with either the doors slide back open or latched open riding down the road. Not say that it is right but it happens.

    Either way i think waiting for the report to come out is the best course of action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    If the Firefighter was wearing their seatbelt, we would not be reading this article either.

    No, doors should not be flying open. But if proper safety procedures (which are also common sense) are followed, the door can fly open with no real risk.

    Usually doors unlatching and coming open is a maintenance issue with latches not being readjusted to compensate for wear. Or maybe their is a flaw in the design? In any event, wear your seatbelts and their will be no risk from falling out.

    So you know that the article is wrong? For a firefighter to fall out of the cab 2 things need to happen 1.)seatbelt failure/or failure to wear and 2.) door to be open. So why are we focused on only one aspect of these incidents and not both? Even if we do get everyone to wear their seatbelt, they can still fail so we should seek to reduce door failure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    Whats to say that he was in the front cab of the truck. Maybe he was in the tiller cab. How many times have you seen a tiller with either the doors slide back open or latched open riding down the road. Not say that it is right but it happens.

    Either way, I think waiting for the report to come out is the best course of action.
    Don't hold your breath on seeing the 'report'...made PUBLIC. As I said before..."I will bet next months retirement check that won't happen, and the 'details' will never leave the kitchen at Truck 12's house."
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
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    Cool

    We have seen some doors not latch all the way when the door is shut on the seat belt not being worn hanging down to the side of the occupent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    So you know that the article is wrong? For a firefighter to fall out of the cab 2 things need to happen 1.)seatbelt failure/or failure to wear and 2.) door to be open. So why are we focused on only one aspect of these incidents and not both? Even if we do get everyone to wear their seatbelt, they can still fail so we should seek to reduce door failure.
    We are focused on one aspect more then another but because seat belts failing is so rare. And the odds of having a seat belt fail at the same time a door latch fails and swings open in a turn in the direction the Firefighter would fall out are MILLIONS to one.

    Door and seat belt failures need to be adressed, no doubt. But the incident in question is more then likley an open and shut case (no pun intended).

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    Our new engine has the interior door handles recessed. Older engine had door handles that were not. Had a couple times where moving around in the back caused the door latch to be opened. Can't see that happening with the recessed handles.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Our new engine has the interior door handles recessed. Older engine had door handles that were not. Had a couple times where moving around in the back caused the door latch to be opened. Can't see that happening with the recessed handles.
    moving around in the back caused the door latch to be opened
    How can you do THAT...in a moving vehicle, with your NFPA required SEAT BELT ON ?
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    How can you do THAT...in a moving vehicle, with your NFPA required SEAT BELT ON ?
    You have been around awhilie does someone really need to explain to you how that happens, or are you just trolling for a fight cause you are bored? why do you care so much about what happens in baltimore? You obviously "know" in your mind what happened, what reportedly happened, what could have been done to prevent it. I dont think anyone here is that dumb to not realize that if your seatbelt is on you will not fall off the truck. How about you let BFD and truck 12's crew worry about what went wrong and handle it appropriatly.

    In all your years you have never seen an offical and unoffical story. Never seen a burnt up firehouse kitchen that was cleaned up and repaired before the brass found out? Never seen a bumper straighten out with a combi tool? Never seen a guy get someone to cover for him for being late to work? We all know what probably happened, guess what we are not involved in it. leave it to BFD to handle it. All you are doing is trying to stir up crap, and you know it.

    And Bones we got you beat on our engine. Instead of the recessed handles on our new truck. We just keep the same 94 seagrave and broke the interior handles so we have to reach outside to open the door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    You have been around awhilie does someone really need to explain to you how that happens, or are you just trolling for a fight cause you are bored? why do you care so much about what happens in baltimore? You obviously "know" in your mind what happened, what reportedly happened, what could have been done to prevent it. I dont think anyone here is that dumb to not realize that if your seatbelt is on you will not fall off the truck. How about you let BFD and truck 12's crew worry about what went wrong and handle it appropriatly.

    In all your years you have never seen an offical and unoffical story. Never seen a burnt up firehouse kitchen that was cleaned up and repaired before the brass found out? Never seen a bumper straighten out with a combi tool? Never seen a guy get someone to cover for him for being late to work? We all know what probably happened, guess what we are not involved in it. leave it to BFD to handle it. All you are doing is trying to stir up crap, and you know it..
    1. Again, I am glad that the F/F was NOT SERIOUSLY injured....however, IF he/she had been killed...you and I know this would have been FRONT PAGE.
    2. NO I don't care about Baltimore, and I really don't care about the lousy seat belts or junk door latches, but I don't like being degraded by the corp. media today...making a statements, then everyone chooses to sweep crap like this under the rug. Again, unless someone is killed...then it's a whole different ballgame...and he/she very well could have been killed.

    Go ahead..."shoot the messenger," but I didn't write the article, and as far as I am concened, this should be an "issue" with every dept. across the country that REALLY cares about the SAFETY of their F/F's.
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
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    I'll chime in on this for one reason, and one reason only.

    I was at a station working on the Chiefs buggy tonight when a FF came up to me and said that his door wasn't latching closed.

    I asked if he reported it to the Officer, and if he called the "shop". He said no, 'cause he could hold the door closed while on a run.

    I had him get his Capt., and go OOS right then. It is beyond any explanation on why a FF would put his life in somewhat danger of a door not latching its self closed.

    I have to say it, but sometimes you guys are your own worst enemy. If something is broke, or not working, get it fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    How can you do THAT...in a moving vehicle, with your NFPA required SEAT BELT ON ?
    In the smaller cabs it was easy. As you are moving your arms around putting on your SCBA, you arm can (and often did) hit the door handle. Ya, we're funny that way, we get dressed and then get on the truck and sit down....while seated we don the SCBA.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    ...And Bones we got you beat on our engine. Instead of the recessed handles on our new truck. We just keep the same 94 seagrave and broke the interior handles so we have to reach outside to open the door.
    Love it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    New NFPA guideline: 5 point harness seatbelt and attached safety lanyard with giant lobster claw hook tethered to a suitible mounting point afixed to the frame.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireeaterbob View Post
    New NFPA guideline: 5 point harness seatbelt and attached safety lanyard with giant lobster claw hook tethered to a suitible mounting point afixed to the frame.
    Sounds like something a Phila lawyer scribed, and will this be a "guideline" or mandate ?
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1OLDTIMER View Post
    Sounds like something a Phila lawyer scribed, and will this be a "guideline" or mandate ?
    Neither, it was sarcasm.
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