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    Default Turnout gear narrative questions

    We are on our 2nd attempt for turnout gear. In the AFG Guidance, they are looking for 100% NFPA compliance, along with certified structural firefighters. Our department is 60 members, 40 of which are structural firefighters, 20 are EMS only, with the potential to go to fire school (it isn't mandatory). Our gear has mfg date between 1997-1999. Do we go for the 40 sets or 60 sets? How do we write for the 40 or for the 60 sets? Our EMS personnel respond to fire calls, as tender drivers, rehab, support staff, etc. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbtjr View Post
    We are on our 2nd attempt for turnout gear. In the AFG Guidance, they are looking for 100% NFPA compliance, along with certified structural firefighters. Our department is 60 members, 40 of which are structural firefighters, 20 are EMS only, with the potential to go to fire school (it isn't mandatory). Our gear has mfg date between 1997-1999. Do we go for the 40 sets or 60 sets? How do we write for the 40 or for the 60 sets? Our EMS personnel respond to fire calls, as tender drivers, rehab, support staff, etc. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
    You answered your own question there."20 are EMS only, with the potential to go to fire school (it isn't mandatory)". Why should I ( yes I pay taxes too) pay for FF gear for someone who is NOT a firefighter?

    Now, EMTs reading this do not take offense as none is intended here. IMHO the fact that they have chosen to get their EMT rating first, and not FF1 training coupled with EMS, says to me that they have already chosen a career path towards the EMS, not the fire service and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

    Now if they take the personal initiative to go get the FF1 training, then they of course deserve to have the PPE they need to do the job. AFG on the other hand does not work with "maybe's", they work with " what do you have today".

    If your EMTs went and got FF1 training this next year ( you can ask for training money also) then next year you can make the high priority and valid argument that you "have trained personnel totally without gear." The highest priority you can have!

    You need to claim 40 FFs and 20 EMS only personnel, because at this point, that is what you actually have. If you need to, and your personnel agree to it, ask AFG for training money to train the EMTs to FF1 status in addition to asking for your turnout gear.

    Oh and by the way, in regards to this project being denied before; you should understand that the mere age of your gear does not, in and of itself, mean it needs to be replaced. Be more prepared to talk about the condition of the gear and watch out that your cost benefit is not too high.
    Last edited by ktb9780; 08-13-2011 at 10:04 AM.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Thanks for the information. Our gear is torn and fails the moisture barrier testing. What would be recommended for a cost benefit for 40 sets with an average of 100 fire (not EMS or MVA) calls a year. I do plan on accounting for the fact our staffing has increased from 40 personnel 4 years ago to 60 members today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbtjr View Post
    Thanks for the information. Our gear is torn and fails the moisture barrier testing. What would be recommended for a cost benefit for 40 sets with an average of 100 fire (not EMS or MVA) calls a year. I do plan on accounting for the fact our staffing has increased from 40 personnel 4 years ago to 60 members today.
    You are looking at a $100K project for 40 sets at $2500.00 each. Multiply your first due population( you did not state what that was) x 10 and divide into $100K to get your cost benefit. Good cost benefit is $1.00 or less per person.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Wisconsin, population just over 10k. Thanks for all the information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbtjr View Post
    Wisconsin, population just over 10k. Thanks for all the information.
    If pop of furst due is 10K then you are golden: 10 years service life X 10K population = 100K srevd duing life of project. 100K population divided into $100,000 project = $1 per person.
    Kurt Bradley
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    You should also ask for EMS gear that meets blood borne pathogens protection for your EMS only members. At a minimum get BBP rated coats that also have the required ANSI reflectivity rating for them to be safe when working in traffic at MVC's. Low costs with high benefits

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    You should also ask for EMS gear that meets blood borne pathogens protection for your EMS only members. At a minimum get BBP rated coats that also have the required ANSI reflectivity rating for them to be safe when working in traffic at MVC's. Low costs with high benefits
    Good advice if we had $500 million in program but IMHO with ony $380 million and computer rejecting applicatons last year to replace 20+ year old STO last year (which in a good money year should have been slam dunks) I would be very cautious of exceeding the cost benefit, as this is one of the main things computer competitive score is based on. If it does not get to peer, well , all is lost. There is always next year !I beleive a conservative minimalist approach this year is going to be the safe route.Better to get 80% off something, than 100% of nothing.
    Kurt Bradley
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