Thread: Hose Layouts

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    Thumbs up Hose Layouts

    Hey all,

    Not sure if im putting this in the right section, but lets get some old good firefighting talk going. I am running into alot of people who have their own definitions of things so I want to know what are your definitions on...

    1) Hotel Bundle
    2) Apartment Pack
    3) Highrise Bundle
    And last..
    4) A bulk load

    I am curious to see what some people think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireAholic144 View Post
    Hey all,

    Not sure if im putting this in the right section, but lets get some old good firefighting talk going. I am running into alot of people who have their own definitions of things so I want to know what are your definitions on...

    1) Hotel Bundle
    2) Apartment Pack
    3) Highrise Bundle
    And last..
    4) A bulk load

    I am curious to see what some people think.

    We have called them Hotel Rolls and High Rise packs. Its all the same.

    It is what your department want to call them. Either way be sure to carry enough hose line and all the associated fittings, tools and other equipment that you may need making a standpipe connection.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireAholic144 View Post
    Hey all,

    Not sure if im putting this in the right section, but lets get some old good firefighting talk going. I am running into alot of people who have their own definitions of things so I want to know what are your definitions on...

    1) Hotel Bundle
    2) Apartment Pack
    3) Highrise Bundle
    And last..
    4) A bulk load

    I am curious to see what some people think.
    Would agree that the first 3 are all the same thing.

    I have also heard of them being called "standpipe packs" and "stairwell packs".

    The last item to me is not the same. I have heard the term used, but in reference to a specific amount of hose, without fittings, that may be used to support or extend an existing lay. As an example, it may be a bulk pack of 200' of forestry line that is going to be used to extend an existing lay, or possibliy a booster reel.

    It could also be, as another example, an additional 100' or 200' of 2 1/2" or 3" to extend an existing 2 1/2" or 3" line.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Would agree that the first 3 are all the same thing.

    I have also heard of them being called "standpipe packs" and "stairwell packs".

    The last item to me is not the same. I have heard the term used, but in reference to a specific amount of hose, without fittings, that may be used to support or extend an existing lay. As an example, it may be a bulk pack of 200' of forestry line that is going to be used to extend an existing lay, or possibliy a booster reel.

    It could also be, as another example, an additional 100' or 200' of 2 1/2" or 3" to extend an existing 2 1/2" or 3" line.


    LAfire, I've never seen any hoseline on fire apparatus with out fittings. Hose butts and/or couplings are the fittings. Not all hoseline have nozzles or other appliances atached to the fittings.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Thanks guys. I know 1-3 were the same, but ive heard people say no there is a difference and that difference I have yet to find. Also what about the definitions of a Blitz line and a "skid' load?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    LAfire, I've never seen any hoseline on fire apparatus with out fittings. Hose butts and/or couplings are the fittings. Not all hoseline have nozzles or other appliances atached to the fittings.
    Let me rephrase that ...

    A bulk pack, as far as I understand and have used the term is a hose pack without nozzles, adapters, and extra appliances. It's simply a predetermined, or determined at the time, pack of hose, which is used to extend an existing line.

    We carry several on our brush trucks to extend forestry lines in 100' and 200' lengths.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Are you high or something?
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    LA is on the mark. Look here for a definition and description on page 388 of the Fire Stream Management Handbook. In the "Old Days" before Mattydales were common, we were taught to arrange the flakes (16 ft per fold) along with the nozzle and flip the bundle over to place the nozzle on your shoulder. Then you reach back and grab a fold about 6 or 7 flakes back with your free hand. A little practice and one firefighter can easily advance 300 or 400 feet of 2 1/2" line across a lot or around to the rear of the fire building. Once when I was still a "Bull" and the adrenalin was flowing pretty good, I advanced 600 feet from a bulk load off an old Mack with the low hose beds.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=50U...0loads&f=false
    Last edited by KuhShise; 08-22-2011 at 08:14 PM.

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    Default Skid Load finish

    I don't know what these modern training manuals have, but a skid load finish was used where the engine would always make a reverse lay to water. After the main bed was almost full with an accordion load, several loops of flat load was placed on top with the loops extending over the end of the hosebed. On top of these two flat loops, the wye or water thief was connected. Sometimes we used a small salvage tarp or Mattress tarp for the skid. Then two leads of 150 or 200 feet of 1 1/2" hose was flaked across the bed in accordion fashion, with the nozzles (2) and the wye placed on top. When the engine arrived at the address, a firefighter would grasp the loops and snap the whole skid load off the top of the main hose bed. The other firefighters would remove forcible entry items and the ladders. The engine would then proceed to lay to the hydrant. We always numbered the female couplings (800 ft bed starts with #16 on the bottom) until #1 was the last joint loaded and was the skid load joint. Pump operator could then calculate the needed pump pressure by knowing how many joints were laid out.
    Last edited by KuhShise; 08-22-2011 at 08:44 PM.

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    Default Blitz

    Originally an operation using tank water to a preconnected master stream device. Usually to darken down an open store front where the windows had already popped. It needed one firefighter and the pump operator, while the rest of the crew got the skid load and ladders dropped. Then the engine made a reverse lay to water. In today's world it generally refers to a 3" preconnected hose line to a large caliber (500 gpm +) nozzle. Such as the TFT "Blitz-Fire" with automatic safety devices to prevent injury.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireAholic144 View Post
    Hey all,

    Not sure if im putting this in the right section, but lets get some old good firefighting talk going. I am running into alot of people who have their own definitions of things so I want to know what are your definitions on...

    1) Hotel Bundle
    2) Apartment Pack
    3) Highrise Bundle
    And last..
    4) A bulk load

    I am curious to see what some people think.
    On my career FD we call 1,2, and 3 an attack pack. It is 150 feet of 1 3/4 inch Ponn Conquest with a 1 1/8 inch smooth bore nozzle. We carry 2 bundles and one of the bundles has a gated wye attched to it. If we reverse lay the 2 bundles are tossed on the grass and we lead out with 2 1/2. Used as a standpipe pack we take in the bundles and the high rise bag.

    To me a bulk load is a bed of hose, no matter the size,that is not preconnected. It may or may not have a nozzle or gated wye on the male end. Generally it is used when preconnects aren't long enough, or to extend a line, or if that FD doesn't use preconnects at all to make up attack lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    I don't know what these modern training manuals have, but a skid load finish was used where the engine would always make a reverse lay to water. After the main bed was almost full with an accordion load, several loops of flat load was placed on top with the loops extending over the end of the hosebed. On top of these two flat loops, the wye or water thief was connected. Sometimes we used a small salvage tarp or Mattress tarp for the skid. Then two leads of 150 or 200 feet of 1 1/2" hose was flaked across the bed in accordion fashion, with the nozzles (2) and the wye placed on top. When the engine arrived at the address, a firefighter would grasp the loops and snap the whole skid load off the top of the main hose bed. The other firefighters would remove forcible entry items and the ladders. The engine would then proceed to lay to the hydrant. We always numbered the female couplings (800 ft bed starts with #16 on the bottom) until #1 was the last joint loaded and was the skid load joint. Pump operator could then calculate the needed pump pressure by knowing how many joints were laid out.
    I have heard the term skid load before. To me this sounds pretty much what we call a project lay or others call a leader line. The only difference is instead of reverse laying the line is advanced from the truck by hand. Is this right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    I have heard the term skid load before. To me this sounds pretty much what we call a project lay or others call a leader line. The only difference is instead of reverse laying the line is advanced from the truck by hand. Is this right?
    Different thing. The skid load was purposely loaded to be reverse laid, not hand stretched.

    Generally the skid load is started with a dead load of either 2 1/2 or 3 inch hose, usually accordian loaded. The skid was formed on top of that with usually 2 1/2 inch hose. Two flat loaded lengths of 2 1/2 are placed on top of the accordian with 2 lage loops hanging off the back of the hose bed. Then anywhere from 100 t0 200 feet of 2 1/2 were layed on edge on top of the flat loaded 2 1/2, near the front of the hose bed, side to side. A gated wye was attached to the end of the 2 1/2 and then 2 lines of 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 inch wee attached to the wye. There were all kinds of finishes for the smaller hose. One was to continue the rip rap load with both hoses loaded as one side by side. Another was to load one hose as a rip rap load and the other as donut rolls on top of that.

    What youy are describing we call an apartment line. Generally 2 1/2 or 3 inch line with either a gated wye, or a 2 1/2 nozzle with a smoothbore nozzle, with smaller hose attached. This line was primarily designed to be hand stretched.
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    This is all good information. Interesting to see the differences in peoples definitions. at my department we consider are high rise pack or bundle packs or hotel bundles, etc.. as skid loads. We carry 2 100' skid loads on our engines one load has only an 1.75 combo nozzle while the other has that and a gated Y on it. So thats what I understand as a skid load which others call it hotel, apartment, high rise, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Originally an operation using tank water to a preconnected master stream device. Usually to darken down an open store front where the windows had already popped. It needed one firefighter and the pump operator, while the rest of the crew got the skid load and ladders dropped. Then the engine made a reverse lay to water. In today's world it generally refers to a 3" preconnected hose line to a large caliber (500 gpm +) nozzle. Such as the TFT "Blitz-Fire" with automatic safety devices to prevent injury.
    Our blitz line is exactly that. It's 2.5 connected to a blitz fire ground monitor and for that reason as you said. Some also consider our standard 200' 2.5 preconnect as another blitz line.

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    In my dept, we call our hose packs hotel packs. we carry two on each rig (2 engines and a quint), consisting of 100' of 1.75" w/a TFT handline. No fittings, tools, etc. These are for use with the leader line- 200+' of 2 1/2" with a gated wye. We have no standpipes or high rises in our district- just lots of places where loooong stretches of hose would be needed. ( you may find a "standpipe" type outlet in one of the large factory type buildings, but not one you'd want to connect to during a fire- they're in the middle of a factory floor!)

    Not sure why we call em "hotel packs" -we have no hotels in the district.

    What you referred to as a bulk bed, we call a dead lay. Ie several hundred feet of hose, NOT connected to anything. The quint has 400' of 2.5" in the last crosslay dead loaded. It's finished with a wye, but can also be used to make a second 2 1/2" handline using the spare playpipe.

    Our older Engine has 400' or so of 2 1/2" in lieu of the third and 4th crosslays it came with. This is finished with a nozzle. The leader line and a 2 1/2" preconnect are in the main hosebed, connected to the two rear discharges. (we rarely use reverse lays, and when we do, we use the 5")

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