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Thread: Smooth Bore vs. Combo/Fog nozzles. Pros & Cons?

  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    KISS wins it here and mistakes happens. The more variables the more that can go wrong.



    Another cultural difference it seems. On most nozzles here all the way right is a straight stream. This is the starting point. The more to the left the wider the stream.



    What flow rate did you use? I fear that we don't flow enough water to do this. Our max on a 1 3/4" is 130 gpm.

    Those fog pulses work if the fire is in it's incipient (or decay) stage or on small fires with low HRR.



    I have nothing to add here.
    Curious, how long have you been in the fire service?
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey


  2. #22
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Curious, how long have you been in the fire service?
    I've been going on calls for 13 months. I only went interior to do searches or drag hose but I've never been on the nozzle. My only nozzle experience is during training burns in shipping containers (about 11 burns in 2 years).

    I know that I'm still young and green but I feel that my training has let me down. We only learned this 3D firefighting and nothing more. I know that there is no magic solution that works on every fire.

    I don't know it better but I'll defend in what I believe until someone or experience can convince me otherwise. If I gave you the impression that I know it better or am more experienced ( a quick look on my profile page would say I'm not) than I'm sorry because this isn't my intention. I'm here to learn.

  3. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    I've been going on calls for 13 months. I only went interior to do searches or drag hose but I've never been on the nozzle. My only nozzle experience is during training burns in shipping containers (about 11 burns in 2 years).

    I know that I'm still young and green but I feel that my training has let me down. We only learned this 3D firefighting and nothing more. I know that there is no magic solution that works on every fire.

    I don't know it better but I'll defend in what I believe until someone or experience can convince me otherwise. If I gave you the impression that I know it better or am more experienced ( a quick look on my profile page would say I'm not) than I'm sorry because this isn't my intention. I'm here to learn.
    No no, I was just worried you were 10 years in and had never heard of VES. If you have any other questions do a quick search and if you positively can't find an answer go ahead and ask up. You'll get a ton of answers from guys with experience for beyond my years. Good luck.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  4. #24
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    No no, I was just worried you were 10 years in and had never heard of VES. If you have any other questions do a quick search and if you positively can't find an answer go ahead and ask up. You'll get a ton of answers from guys with experience for beyond my years. Good luck.
    Thanks.

    I thought you were going to bust my balls and I couldn't blame you if you did. I'm in a rough spot. I want to learn as much as I can about fires, I think critical about each fire we had and how I would've done it (with a lot of hindsight of course). But I can't back my thinking up because I'm greener than grass.

    VES is almost unknown in Belgium and Europe I believe and I think we should train on it.

  5. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  6. #26
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Thanks. I'll give it a look. I've recently got my hands on the 5th edition of the Essentials. There is just so much knowlegde out there (books and internet) that it's very hard not to get lost in the woods.

  7. #27
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    I thought you were going to bust my balls
    That never happens here.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  8. #28
    Forum Member L-Webb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefkn View Post
    that never happens here.
    lamo........
    Bring enough hose.

  9. #29
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    That never happens here.
    I find that hard to believe sir.

  10. #30
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    I find that hard to believe sir.
    Sorry... scratch "never" replace with "always".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber tajm611's Avatar
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    But what if said "bustee" has no "balls" to "bust", does it still count?
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  12. #32
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    But what if said "bustee" has no "balls" to "bust", does it still count?
    Please don't compare me with LA.

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    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    At 130 GPM you are in fact underpumping your 1 3/4" lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  14. #34
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    Default Curious

    Theusje, what length hose and engine pressure are you using for a flow of only 130 gpm. Answer can be in bar, lpm or any way you are normally measuring. Would also be nice to know the hose diameter.

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    What flow rate did you use? I fear that we don't flow enough water to do this. Our max on a 1 3/4" is 130 gpm.

    Actually we were using 100 gpm combination tips set at a straight stream pattern. I would have peferred something higher like 125 gpm or even the 200 gpm nozzles my POC FD uses.
    Where exactly are you located?
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  16. #36
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At 130 GPM you are in fact underpumping your 1 3/4" lines.
    Our nozzles at the 1 3/4" lines have a maximum flow rate of 475lpm (125gpm) at 6 bar (87psi) nozzle pressure.
    We'll receive new nozzles by the end of the year which will be able to flow 500lpm (132gpm) at 7 bar (100psi) nozzle pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Theusje, what length hose and engine pressure are you using for a flow of only 130 gpm. Answer can be in bar, lpm or any way you are normally measuring. Would also be nice to know the hose diameter.
    At the moment all our hose are donut rolls. One donut roll is about 20m (60ft) We'll start using bundles when we receive the new nozzles as well.

    We ride with 6 on all the engines.
    The officer in charge of the engine places the waterthief. From the waterthief to the fire FF 1 and 2 place two lenghts of 45mm (1 3/4") hose. FF 3 and 4 connect the engine with the waterthief using 70mm (2 3/4") hose. In general this can be done with 2 lengths of hose.

    So that gives use about 120ft of 2 3/4" hose and the same lenght for the 1 3/4" hose.

    The pumps on our two engine and pumper have a flowrate of 3000lpm (800gpm) at 8 bar (116 psi). I am almost 100% sure that we underpump our hoselines at 4 to 6 bar. It largely depends on the who's the pump operator.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Actually we were using 100 gpm combination tips set at a straight stream pattern. I would have peferred something higher like 125 gpm or even the 200 gpm nozzles my POC FD uses.


    Where exactly are you located?
    Thanks for the anwser. I'll add it to my toolbox.

    Middelkerke VFD is the official name but we are in fact a POC department. Population of 18,000 in the winter and about +100,000 in the summer. Due to the large number of tourists in the summer we are quite large. We have about 45 members and have a large amount of trucks and vans.

  17. #37
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    Our nozzles at the 1 3/4" lines have a maximum flow rate of 475lpm (125gpm) at 6 bar (87psi) nozzle pressure.
    We'll receive new nozzles by the end of the year which will be able to flow 500lpm (132gpm) at 7 bar (100psi) nozzle pressure.



    At the moment all our hose are donut rolls. One donut roll is about 20m (60ft) We'll start using bundles when we receive the new nozzles as well.

    We ride with 6 on all the engines.
    The officer in charge of the engine places the waterthief. From the waterthief to the fire FF 1 and 2 place two lenghts of 45mm (1 3/4") hose. FF 3 and 4 connect the engine with the waterthief using 70mm (2 3/4") hose. In general this can be done with 2 lengths of hose.

    So that gives use about 120ft of 2 3/4" hose and the same lenght for the 1 3/4" hose.

    The pumps on our two engine and pumper have a flowrate of 3000lpm (800gpm) at 8 bar (116 psi). I am almost 100% sure that we underpump our hoselines at 4 to 6 bar. It largely depends on the who's the pump operator.



    Thanks for the anwser. I'll add it to my toolbox.

    Middelkerke VFD is the official name but we are in fact a POC department. Population of 18,000 in the winter and about +100,000 in the summer. Due to the large number of tourists in the summer we are quite large. We have about 45 members and have a large amount of trucks and vans.
    Canadian department I assume?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  18. #38
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Canadian department I assume?
    Nope.

    I'm from Middelkerke, Belgium, Europe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelkerke

  19. #39
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    Nope.

    I'm from Middelkerke, Belgium, Europe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelkerke
    Gotcha. Your English is amazing to not be from this continent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  20. #40
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Gotcha. Your English is amazing to not be from this continent.
    Thanks. It's nothing amazing here though. A lot of young people in Flanders can speak or use English fairly fluent.

    Flanders is fairly small and with only 6 million people. TV shows here don't get dubbed and video games don't get translated because the market is too small. We are used to subtitles from a young age and there are loads of English speaking TV shows for young people. Then you have the internet and video games. Kids also get teached English from the age of 14 to 18.

    Kids also receive French from the age of 10 to 18 but I rarely use it and thus I have a hard time using French.

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