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Thread: Smooth Bore vs. Combo/Fog nozzles. Pros & Cons?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Thanks. I'll give it a look. I've recently got my hands on the 5th edition of the Essentials. There is just so much knowlegde out there (books and internet) that it's very hard not to get lost in the woods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    I thought you were going to bust my balls
    That never happens here.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefkn View Post
    that never happens here.
    lamo........
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    That never happens here.
    I find that hard to believe sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    I find that hard to believe sir.
    Sorry... scratch "never" replace with "always".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    But what if said "bustee" has no "balls" to "bust", does it still count?
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    But what if said "bustee" has no "balls" to "bust", does it still count?
    Please don't compare me with LA.

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    At 130 GPM you are in fact underpumping your 1 3/4" lines.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Default Curious

    Theusje, what length hose and engine pressure are you using for a flow of only 130 gpm. Answer can be in bar, lpm or any way you are normally measuring. Would also be nice to know the hose diameter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    What flow rate did you use? I fear that we don't flow enough water to do this. Our max on a 1 3/4" is 130 gpm.

    Actually we were using 100 gpm combination tips set at a straight stream pattern. I would have peferred something higher like 125 gpm or even the 200 gpm nozzles my POC FD uses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    At 130 GPM you are in fact underpumping your 1 3/4" lines.
    Our nozzles at the 1 3/4" lines have a maximum flow rate of 475lpm (125gpm) at 6 bar (87psi) nozzle pressure.
    We'll receive new nozzles by the end of the year which will be able to flow 500lpm (132gpm) at 7 bar (100psi) nozzle pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Theusje, what length hose and engine pressure are you using for a flow of only 130 gpm. Answer can be in bar, lpm or any way you are normally measuring. Would also be nice to know the hose diameter.
    At the moment all our hose are donut rolls. One donut roll is about 20m (60ft) We'll start using bundles when we receive the new nozzles as well.

    We ride with 6 on all the engines.
    The officer in charge of the engine places the waterthief. From the waterthief to the fire FF 1 and 2 place two lenghts of 45mm (1 3/4") hose. FF 3 and 4 connect the engine with the waterthief using 70mm (2 3/4") hose. In general this can be done with 2 lengths of hose.

    So that gives use about 120ft of 2 3/4" hose and the same lenght for the 1 3/4" hose.

    The pumps on our two engine and pumper have a flowrate of 3000lpm (800gpm) at 8 bar (116 psi). I am almost 100% sure that we underpump our hoselines at 4 to 6 bar. It largely depends on the who's the pump operator.

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Actually we were using 100 gpm combination tips set at a straight stream pattern. I would have peferred something higher like 125 gpm or even the 200 gpm nozzles my POC FD uses.


    Where exactly are you located?
    Thanks for the anwser. I'll add it to my toolbox.

    Middelkerke VFD is the official name but we are in fact a POC department. Population of 18,000 in the winter and about +100,000 in the summer. Due to the large number of tourists in the summer we are quite large. We have about 45 members and have a large amount of trucks and vans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    Our nozzles at the 1 3/4" lines have a maximum flow rate of 475lpm (125gpm) at 6 bar (87psi) nozzle pressure.
    We'll receive new nozzles by the end of the year which will be able to flow 500lpm (132gpm) at 7 bar (100psi) nozzle pressure.



    At the moment all our hose are donut rolls. One donut roll is about 20m (60ft) We'll start using bundles when we receive the new nozzles as well.

    We ride with 6 on all the engines.
    The officer in charge of the engine places the waterthief. From the waterthief to the fire FF 1 and 2 place two lenghts of 45mm (1 3/4") hose. FF 3 and 4 connect the engine with the waterthief using 70mm (2 3/4") hose. In general this can be done with 2 lengths of hose.

    So that gives use about 120ft of 2 3/4" hose and the same lenght for the 1 3/4" hose.

    The pumps on our two engine and pumper have a flowrate of 3000lpm (800gpm) at 8 bar (116 psi). I am almost 100% sure that we underpump our hoselines at 4 to 6 bar. It largely depends on the who's the pump operator.



    Thanks for the anwser. I'll add it to my toolbox.

    Middelkerke VFD is the official name but we are in fact a POC department. Population of 18,000 in the winter and about +100,000 in the summer. Due to the large number of tourists in the summer we are quite large. We have about 45 members and have a large amount of trucks and vans.
    Canadian department I assume?
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Canadian department I assume?
    Nope.

    I'm from Middelkerke, Belgium, Europe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelkerke

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    Nope.

    I'm from Middelkerke, Belgium, Europe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middelkerke
    Gotcha. Your English is amazing to not be from this continent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Gotcha. Your English is amazing to not be from this continent.
    Thanks. It's nothing amazing here though. A lot of young people in Flanders can speak or use English fairly fluent.

    Flanders is fairly small and with only 6 million people. TV shows here don't get dubbed and video games don't get translated because the market is too small. We are used to subtitles from a young age and there are loads of English speaking TV shows for young people. Then you have the internet and video games. Kids also get teached English from the age of 14 to 18.

    Kids also receive French from the age of 10 to 18 but I rarely use it and thus I have a hard time using French.

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    It's amazing because you speak much better than 90% of Americans.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    It's amazing because you speak much better than 90% of Americans.
    Well, I put some effort in it. If I don't know the spelling of a word than I google it. I also think twice when using than, then, they're, there, their, ...

    Also this is typing/writing. I have the time to think how I'll phrase a sentence.

    I think of this place as a source of knowlegde. I mean, this ain't Youtube or the comment section of the local newspaper. I gain nothing from bad writing or waging flame wars.

    Edit: Btw I really like your signature. It might get the guys thinking.
    Last edited by Theusje; 08-28-2011 at 04:46 PM.

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    I think the first clue that you're foreign is that you're nice. You're too nice to be American.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    I think the first clue that you're foreign is that you're nice. You're too nice to be American.
    I guess after 14 different foreign countries and 3 conflicts, I would disagree with that blanket statement.
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    That's something Belgian.

    I'll try to explain with these vidoes
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceg6NQKHd70

    and this
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnqkPjoqrUY

    We've done some great things but we are not really proud of it and we don't really care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I guess after 14 different foreign countries and 3 conflicts, I would disagree with that blanket statement.
    Jokes brother, jokes....
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    I think the first clue that you're foreign is that you're nice. You're too nice to be American.
    Gosh, thanks big guy. I think you are lonely and sad dude so I've p.m.ed Lose AllFIRESto come cheer you up. See this American boy is nice to you.

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    Cool story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    Gosh, thanks big guy. I think you are lonely and sad dude so I've p.m.ed Lose AllFIRESto come cheer you up. See this American boy is nice to you.
    So this is what it's like to be drunk on a Sunday...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    Yes, but won't a smoothbore invert the thermal layer and cause steam if you flow too much water at once?

    You are right about checking the nozzle setting, our sm30s move really easy.
    I didn't see this get answered, so I'll offer a short one: No, is the answer to the above question. Or, maybe but highly unlikely. "Too much water at once" puts the fire out quicker or overcomes the BTU's decreasing steam production. In the case of fog, when you put "too much water" into the overhead, the conversion to steam forces the same down along with the smoke. With the larger droplets produced by a smoothbore nozzle, the water rains down with less steam production overhead. The larger droplets can absorb more heat before converting to steam and rising up.

    While you may never have operated a SB inside a structure, we typically can show similar results in live fire training using a combo nozzle, once on straight stream with limited steam production (still more than a SB) and then on the old time favorite 30 degree fog pattern. It tends to be very convincing in my experience. The SB is actually not much fun, as the fires go out with little fanfare, which is actually how we'd like them to go in the field.

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