Light Rescue and 2011 Ford 6.7 Diesel

[GFPD2005]

Hello all,

We are looking at adding a light rescue in the next couple years. No extrication equipment since we run rescue pumpers. It would basically be F-550 extended cab, with a box, roll up doors to hold tech rescue and ems equipment. Budget under 150k. I am hoping to get some input on:

Builders: (Hackney, Pl Custom, etc.)

Options: (must haves for a light rescue)

Engine and chassis: (Really looking for reliability and performance input for the new 2011 powerstroke from Ford. Id like to know if the new 6.7 is better than the previous 6.0no and 6.4L models.

Pictures welcome too!

Thanks.

[Tim1118]

Some builders to check out:
1. Maintainer Custom Bodies
2. Unruh Fire
3. CET
4. EJ Metals

Options: I like to have more than enough light. A generator (preferably hydraulic) is always a good bet. Try to get more generator than you need. It's less expensive to do it on the front end rather than have to buy a new (larger) generator down the road.

Engine and chassis: This is strictly my opinion. Based on my own experience with Ford (and what I hear from other departments), I am shying away from their products. Chevy's Duramax, and Dodge's Cummins both seem to be much better. One thought though, how much will this truck get used? Are you sure you need a diesel motor, or would a gas make more sense? I don't know your call volume or the usage of your current equipment, but as you know, diesels don't live very long unless the motor is used frequently and for long periods of time. If this truck is not going to see heavy use, it may be beneficial to stick with gas. That being said, if gas is an option, I would be alright with a Ford chassis... but diesel would be out of the question.

[npfd801]

Hello all,

We are looking at adding a light rescue in the next couple years. No extrication equipment since we run rescue pumpers. It would basically be F-550 extended cab, with a box, roll up doors to hold tech rescue and ems equipment. Budget under 150k. I am hoping to get some input on:

Builders: (Hackney, Pl Custom, etc.)

Options: (must haves for a light rescue)

Engine and chassis: (Really looking for reliability and performance input for the new 2011 powerstroke from Ford. Id like to know if the new 6.7 is better than the previous 6.0no and 6.4L models.

Pictures welcome too!

Thanks.

Erik-

We have three. One is a Stahl body, two are Alexis. I know you said extended cab, but I'd look hard at a four door...

DON'TS:

Don't bother putting SCBA seats in place of the rear bench. AWFUL. We pulled them out of the squad in my firehouse and put the bench back in.

Don't let them build the body too high. The center of gravity on our two Alexis is too high in my opinion, especially when the rig is fully loaded.

Don't do an underhood genset, i.e. belt driven. All three we've had, all three by different builders have had far too many problems to be acceptable.


I think you have the right idea - something moderately loaded, not carrying extrication stuff. One of our Alexis rigs was the primary extrication unit, it is now a manpower/salvage/EMS response rig and it runs, drives, handles, etc. MUCH better now that it isn't right at the max weight allowed. Heck, it was probably overweight.

Things I would suggest doing:

One of our light squads has a cascade and fill station. So very convenient as you can get the smaller rig closer later in the incident, plus if you run mutual aid with it you aren't taking a heavy rescue or whatever out of service. We use it a ton for training, and the same unit will pull our enclosed training trailer for a nice, tidy package to take everything we need (props, tools, etc.) to an off site location for training evolutions.

Two of our units have small light tower, two light heads only. Again, sometimes the smaller units can get places and throw light that nothing else could. And the smaller towers aren't terribly expensive, and still throw a great deal of light.

E-mail me, and I'll give you more... Gotta run.

[fireinfo10]

Don't get too married to the F550. At least take a look at the IH Terrastar for a chassis. A much bigger cab and more of a truck vs a pickup.

[Nozzle nut 22]

Don't get too married to the F550. At least take a look at the IH Terrastar for a chassis. A much bigger cab and more of a truck vs a pickup.

Do you know what the GVWR is on this chassis vs the Ford's 19,500? I'm liking the larger truck style cab- it's more like the Chevy C series/ GMC Topkick, or the F-750.

My dept runs an F-450 light rescue/utility. Ours has a Johnny and Roy style Stahl body vs an aluminum or steel rescue body.

One tip- if you get the 4x4 version, invest in running boards!!! Those Fords are very high- shorter legged members almost needed a ladder or a running start to climb in with gear on... Running boards were added later- probably at a higher cost than to spec them with it.

I agree with the generator. We have a 5 kw gas unit on ours. Mounted in the bed, piped into the truck's exhaust, and wired for remote start. We used it because we had it- it was off our old ladder. A hydraulic would free up more space, and you wouldn't need the extra gas can. Gas/Diesel units can run w/o the main engine being on. I like the light tower idea, too!

This vehicle is very versatile. The open bed esp- you can use it to haul all sorts of gear to and from remote sites; fill er up with trash pumps and hose during floods; haul empty scba bottles for filling, and bring full ones back; fill it with filthy gear/tools/ half frozen hose to bring back for cleaning, etc...

A neighboring dept has a Pierce light rescue- no Hurst tools- that they use for scene support. That thing holds an amazing amount of gear!!

Pretty much any apparatus builder will make you one. Fouts Bros has a Squad/ utility truck that's very reasonably priced. compt body is semi walk in, too. They also make a larger version of it for med duty chassis. It doesn't have roll up doors, but it IS well under your budget.

[getasupply]

Don't get too married to the F550. At least take a look at the IH Terrastar for a chassis. A much bigger cab and more of a truck vs a pickup.

Terrastar definitely tougher, more cab room, no DEF!, you get it extended or for door and rear bench has a lot of storage room underneath.

Our abulance district is buying one for a remount and I saw the bare chassis

[islandfire03]

Terrastar definitely tougher, more cab room, no DEF!, you get it extended or for door and rear bench has a lot of storage room underneath.

Our abulance district is buying one for a remount and I saw the bare chassis

What is the pricing difference between the Terrastar and the F-550?

[getasupply]

pretty close from what i hear, i have been told there is a interactive pricing page on IH's website.

If I get time over the weekend I will post the link

[GFPD2005]

Thank you all. I have been looking at some bodies that look too tall. We just got a grant for a skid unit. So either we will be switching gears to a brush truck for now or maybe a "wet" rescue.

[Reliance]

Thank you all. I have been looking at some bodies that look too tall. We just got a grant for a skid unit. So either we will be switching gears to a brush truck for now or maybe a "wet" rescue.

Lake’s & District, NS
2011 Ford F550, 2 Door Chassis

CET 18HP Honda Pump

300 US Gal. Poly Tank

Waterous Aquis Foam System

Two cylinder Cascade System

Extruded Aluminum Body

http://www.metalfabfiretrucks.com/deliveries.html It is seventh one down

[lrpott]

One of the maufacturers you should take a look at is EVI down in Florida. They build small rescues and do a really nice job. Check Them Out and Be Safe Out There!!

[neiowa]

I went to International dealer/user conf. last night. Terrastar looks like a great chassis for fire service. Huge cab. Allison trans, straight rear frame (no elevation changes), standard truck 34" wide, and NO UREA.

BUT 4x4 will not be available untl summer 2014. Will be the only similar size unit with a gear drive transfer case (vs chain).

Will have a front engine PTO available early in 2012 (front mount pump for waterhole draft/tanker fill anyone).

Factory reps said price is only slightly above Ford. You get a truck not a glorified pickup. Cab is the same metal as the 4000 series trucks.



I discussed emissions system with them. They will be staying with EGR long term. They have .20ppm engines done but will not introduce until they have used up the credits as the .20ppm engine will cost more that the current version.

Credits have been discussed here and some have it backwards. IH is not using credits because they can't meet 2010 emissions. They are using they credits so they don't have to meet the 2010 emissions thus holding engine price down for the truck buyer.

Other emissions info discussed. Some of the European builders (such as MAN) are going away from SCR/urea (a euro developed thing) back to advance EGR (now that IH has shown it is possible) or to dry urea (a pellet/cube rather than a liquid). So which tech is an orphan.

A interesting pitch I had not heard on the entire SCR/urea thing is - All the major truck mfg except IH sell in Euroland and they had to adopt emissions a decade ago and came up with SCR/urea as a solution. When the US EPA jammed 2010 emission thru these engine mfg just haul existing crap over the the good old USA. IH says they looked at SCR, decided it was stupid and would try to make EGR work. And they did. One major advantage in this that IH has is they make the chassis and the engine so the cooling system packaging is a one stop design. Not engine designed in Indiana and the truck somewhere else.

Appparently have been selling the heck out of the Maxxforce 13 engine.


That making non emissions versions (drop the 2007 and 2010 crap) is not a problem. Making thousands of 2004 engines for the miliary and marine. Some interest in the idea of a EPA exemption for fire/emergency service. Apparently airports have or are likely to get such an exemption based on the diesels on airport tankers etc are idleing most of the time and don't pollute much.

[Rescue101]

Some builders to check out:
1. Maintainer Custom Bodies
2. Unruh Fire
3. CET
4. EJ Metals

Options: I like to have more than enough light. A generator (preferably hydraulic) is always a good bet. Try to get more generator than you need. It's less expensive to do it on the front end rather than have to buy a new (larger) generator down the road.

Engine and chassis: This is strictly my opinion. Based on my own experience with Ford (and what I hear from other departments), I am shying away from their products. Chevy's Duramax, and Dodge's Cummins both seem to be much better. One thought though, how much will this truck get used? Are you sure you need a diesel motor, or would a gas make more sense? I don't know your call volume or the usage of your current equipment, but as you know, diesels don't live very long unless the motor is used frequently and for long periods of time. If this truck is not going to see heavy use, it may be beneficial to stick with gas. That being said, if gas is an option, I would be alright with a Ford chassis... but diesel would be out of the question.

Say WHAT? I wouldn't give you $2 for a GAS engine. Buy the 6.7 and run the p*** out of it. The 6.7 is FAR superior to the 6.0 and the 6.4. Durajunks have their own issues as do the new Dodge Cummins. Now if you could find a nice OLD mechanical Dodge that's another story. ANY diesel will outlive a gas,I don't care who builds it. Look at recalls.you'll see that no one is exempt. T.C.

[firefightinirish217]

Engine and chassis: This is strictly my opinion. Based on my own experience with Ford (and what I hear from other departments), I am shying away from their products. Chevy's Duramax, and Dodge's Cummins both seem to be much better. One thought though, how much will this truck get used? Are you sure you need a diesel motor, or would a gas make more sense? I don't know your call volume or the usage of your current equipment, but as you know, diesels don't live very long unless the motor is used frequently and for long periods of time. If this truck is not going to see heavy use, it may be beneficial to stick with gas. That being said, if gas is an option, I would be alright with a Ford chassis... but diesel would be out of the question.

Haha, you know what they say brother, opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one and they all stink. Duramax and Cummins aren't any better or worse than the Powerstroke. They all have their own little issues, especially how quickly things are produced these days.

Now, to address the whole diesels won't last very long if left to sit. I speak from experience on this matter. A gas engine will go down faster than a diesel will from just sitting around. All three of the pickups that the outlying firehouses had were garbage because they sat around for months at a time and were hardley ever driven. When they were bought the engines were great, they were 80's model 351 Windsors, a stout motor. A diesel engine will outlast a gas engine hands down, the pick-up used at Station 1 in Dalton is a 2004 F-350, is only used for store day (to pick-up food) and other miscellaneous tasks. Sometimes it might pul the trailers containing swift water gear or hazmat gear in it. Other than that it sits there all day. They have not had one problem out of the 6.0L Powerstroke that is in that truck.

[getasupply]

Look at building on a Terrastar, a real truck chassis stronger frame, huge cab, no DEF to buy, truck engine and multiplex wiring.


http://www.internationaltrucks.com/T...BuildYourOwn/#

No I don't work for them but we do our level A service at an IH dealer and I have crawled around thier demo a couple of times. Great visibility also.

Stay Warm Stay Visible

[Rescue101]

Look at building on a Terrastar, a real truck chassis stronger frame, huge cab, no DEF to buy, truck engine and multiplex wiring.


http://www.internationaltrucks.com/T...BuildYourOwn/#

No I don't work for them but we do our level A service at an IH dealer and I have crawled around thier demo a couple of times. Great visibility also.

Stay Warm Stay Visible

Be Happy to............Once they make a driving axle under the Front. T.C.

[chiefengineer11]

Be Happy to............Once they make a driving axle under the Front. T.C.

From the Advisory Committee meeting last month - coming. late 2012 or 2013.

[neiowa]

Look at building on a Terrastar, a real truck chassis stronger frame, huge cab, no DEF to buy, truck engine and multiplex wiring.


http://www.internationaltrucks.com/T...BuildYourOwn/#

No I don't work for them but we do our level A service at an IH dealer and I have crawled around thier demo a couple of times. Great visibility also.

Stay Warm Stay Visible

Was at an IH Dealer/customer meeting evening of Dec 13. Hebe said Summer 2012.

[firepundit]

Was at an IH Dealer/customer meeting evening of Dec 13. Hebe said Summer 2012.

If it came out of Jim Hebe's mouth, I wouldn't lay too much stock in it.

[Rescue101]

If it came out of Jim Hebe's mouth, I wouldn't lay too much stock in it.

Way you talk,hehe T.C.