Thread: Repacking LDH

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    Unhappy Repacking LDH

    Does anyone have a video, powerpoint, instructions, pictures, guideline, etc on repacking 5.0" LDH? I am battling the troops on a proper way todo it. We haven't found a good example. People are getting frustrated and are saying this is why the don't like using LDH as it is hard to repack. Any help would be appreciated.

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    We drive either next to the hose or over the hose.

    Leave a 2-3 foot gap along the front of the hosebed. ALL connections are brought to that gap and loaded there. This keeps the rest of the bed somewhat flat.

    So, when you look at the bed from the tailboard. All the storz fitting/connections are at the front of the hosebed in this "gap" area

    Also, make sure the fittings pull flat and don't have to flip.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    ChiefKN, for the gap at the front of the hosebed, do only pack the couplings here? I mean if you are in the middle of the hose when packing a layer, would you pull the hose all the way forward to the front of the hosebed or do you only bring the hose up to the edge of the gap area until you have a coupling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by taskforce16 View Post
    ChiefKN, for the gap at the front of the hosebed, do only pack the couplings here? I mean if you are in the middle of the hose when packing a layer, would you pull the hose all the way forward to the front of the hosebed or do you only bring the hose up to the edge of the gap area until you have a coupling?
    Front gap is for couplings only. Always remember to pack them so that they do not flip.

    Additionally, back at the tailboard end of the bed, we will alternate the folds by layers....start one layer at the very edge of the hosebed, and then the next layer back by a foot, keep alternating.....That way the top layer has room for the first few couplings to pass through between the top layers and the bar going across the bed.

    Also, we drive forward over or next to the hose, always better for the driver to go forward. Just need a man on the ground at the rear to communicate with the driver and the crew packing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Front gap is for couplings only. Always remember to pack them so that they do not flip.

    Additionally, back at the tailboard end of the bed, we will alternate the folds by layers....start one layer at the very edge of the hosebed, and then the next layer back by a foot, keep alternating.....That way the top layer has room for the first few couplings to pass through between the top layers and the bar going across the bed.

    Also, we drive forward over or next to the hose, always better for the driver to go forward. Just need a man on the ground at the rear to communicate with the driver and the crew packing.
    Yes, couplings in the gap.

    I forgot about staggering the end by tailboard.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    When you decide it is time to take-up, only break the couplings at the bottom of hills (it will take a couple of wrenches) or at the top of grades. Be sure to make several folds to prevent air from being sucked into the hose as the water drains out. Then repack the engine as you drift from the top of the grade to the bottom. This keeps the water running down and the air from sucking back into the hose. Running the engine in neutral also makes for smoother stops and starts. A word of caution for 4 wheel drive units... some front axles are too low to allow 5" storz couplings to pass underneath. Better to drive beside the hose than over it.

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    Another good trick to keep air from entering the ldh as it drains, is simply to hook the non draining end up to the hosebed.

    The others make some good points, too regarding couplings. We've never used the front gap method, but it's a good way to do it. Might help keep a very full, non covered hosebed from laying hose when you don't want it to!

    We've always used dutchman folds to keep the couplings pulling strait out. The couplings were staggered around to keep the bed flat. On our one engine with the crossbar, we did use the short/long method explained above. The other engines and quint HAVE no crossbar to get in the way.

    We mostly just back up to take ldh up. Don't try to drag it to the truck- bring the truck to it. If you do need to drag or handstretch, use plenty of people.

    What, exactly, are their issues with packing the 5"? Are they just being firefighters- grumbling and griping about having to work with something new, or did somebody brainstorm up a way to load it that's overly complicated and a pita? We've used 5" for decades, and it's no big deal to reload. It's not like you have to pick up entire 120# lengths- you let the truck do the work, and just pick up a few feet at a time. Beats sorting through the spaghetti of 2.5 and 3" lines at a big fire, and picking up 2,3, or even 4 times as much!!

    As an aside- if you go with a split bed arrangement, buying your hose in two colors is a great way to make sure the right amount goes back in each side. you could also simply mark or color couplings on 1 side.

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    1. Break every section and roll it, preferably downhill to aid in pressing the water out. Air and water in 5" will lead to a crappy load that looks bad and is more prone to sliding out. It's not fun to lay your entire hosebed out on an interstate. As someone else mentioned, if you just flip the coupling over the hose on the uphill end, the water will drain, and the hose will suck flat.

    2. If we just laid out a couple sections, we might carry them to the engine. If we laid out more than that, we'll roll them and drive to them. To reload, it usually takes 5 guys to do it efficiently. One up in the hosebed, one at the tailboard, two holding opposite ends of a prybar run through the center of the roll, and one to flip the roll over to give slack for the guys loading it.

    3. All couplings go to the forward wall of the hosebed. We carry 1200 feet of 5" on our engines, so in order to fit all the couplings, we leave 1-2 feet between the folds and the forward wall. This way, if a coupling ends up in line with another coupling, it can go in front of it, instead of on top of it.

    4. Like someone else mentioned, stagger the folds at each end by at least a foot. If you stagger more than about a foot and a half on each end, you might end up with an arched load running from front to back, which can lead to hose falling out.

    5. Flat load it, making sure if you come to a coupling, you just fold the hose so that the coupling goes to the wall, and doesn't have to flip over to come out of the hose bed. It should pull straight out. Flying couplings are dangerous to apparati and people.

    6. Our hosebeds are set up so that the hose stacks perfectly and neatly if you take the time to do it right. There should be just enough width in the bed to fit the hose without having to leave a gap on the side. If anything, you should have to almost pound it in place at the edges. This will lead to a better looking load that has less tendency to unload on you.

    7. To make sure your pretty load stays pretty, use a smoke ejector hanger, lay it across the top of the hose, have someone stand on it maybe 8-12" back from the tailboard end of the hose folds, and lock it into place. This will hold your 5" in place, keeping it looking pretty, even if you hit huge bumps over and over. Don't cheat and use this hanger to hold in sloppily loaded hose. That's just sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    7. To make sure your pretty load stays pretty, use a smoke ejector hanger, lay it across the top of the hose, have someone stand on it maybe 8-12" back from the tailboard end of the hose folds, and lock it into place. This will hold your 5" in place, keeping it looking pretty, even if you hit huge bumps over and over. Don't cheat and use this hanger to hold in sloppily loaded hose. That's just sorry.
    I get number 1-6, but number 7 would seem to impede the lay or require the engine to stop, a firefighter to ascend (open the covers if you have them), remove the fan bar and then pull the hose for a lay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by taskforce16 View Post
    Does anyone have a video, powerpoint, instructions, pictures, guideline, etc on repacking 5.0" LDH? I am battling the troops on a proper way todo it. We haven't found a good example. People are getting frustrated and are saying this is why the don't like using LDH as it is hard to repack. Any help would be appreciated.
    Yup.............Reel truck. Makes short work of picking up 5". hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Yup.............Reel truck. Makes short work of picking up 5". hehe T.C.
    Everyone around here that had 5" on reels got rid of the reels.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Everyone around here that had 5" on reels got rid of the reels.
    No surprise. Works WELL for us. In two years all the rigs will have 1000-1200' on them and 2600' on the reel.But if I have more than 800' down it is MUCH easier to pick it up with the Reel. T.c.

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    We have quints that require the ladder to be raised to pack the supply line. For the most part we just break it and drain it. Shoulder load the 100ft and hike it back to the truck. Then we use two pry bars to squeeze the air out as we pack the hose back. Sort of like a homemade LDH hose roller. I am not going to take the time to explain how we get the 1000 ft of 4 inch into the hose beds of our 98' Pierce quints. It is similar to packing a clown car.

    On the engines in the city we do as been discribed above in regards to fold and couplings with out moving the truck. We break it, drain it, and pack it with the two pry bars.

    We lay out several hundred ft a day so it becomes natural similar to putting you turn out gear on. Pratice makes perfect.

    Also the more you lay it, charge it, and pack it the easier the hose becomes to work with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    We have quints that require the ladder to be raised to pack the supply line. For the most part we just break it and drain it. Shoulder load the 100ft and hike it back to the truck. Then we use two pry bars to squeeze the air out as we pack the hose back. Sort of like a homemade LDH hose roller. I am not going to take the time to explain how we get the 1000 ft of 4 inch into the hose beds of our 98' Pierce quints. It is similar to packing a clown car.

    On the engines in the city we do as been discribed above in regards to fold and couplings with out moving the truck. We break it, drain it, and pack it with the two pry bars.

    We lay out several hundred ft a day so it becomes natural similar to putting you turn out gear on. Pratice makes perfect.

    Also the more you lay it, charge it, and pack it the easier the hose becomes to work with.

    I sent him a PM teling him that I had the slides or photos of how it is done when 23 was used as the model. No answer from him, so no loss on our part.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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    see pics,,,
    Attached Images Attached Images   

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    MG3610, in the second photo, is that showing the layer that is "short"? I believe everyone has been saying to alternate the layers (long , short, long, short).

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I get number 1-6, but number 7 would seem to impede the lay or require the engine to stop, a firefighter to ascend (open the covers if you have them), remove the fan bar and then pull the hose for a lay?
    Correct. Someone has to remove the hanger. Someone already has to get up there and pull the free end of the 5" down anyways. Whoever does that can remove the hanger and throw it in another hose bed slot or leave it laying on the tailboard. It takes no time at all to remove.

    I keep a 5" Storz to steamer elbow (which should have handles on the sides for easy turning by hand and tightening with a mallet) on the free end of the 5", around which is a loop of webbing in a girth hitch. The webbing loop dangles off the tailboard end of the hose load, while the elbow is thrown back toward the front of the apparatus. This allows the hydrant man to step up on the tailboard, undo the fan hanger, grab the webbing, and head to the hydrant with the hydrant bag and the 5".

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    If you do it right you dont need the hangar to hold it in at all.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    We've always stored ours with a hydrant gate valve preconnected. The gate valve was attached to the tailboard by a bracket. The Quint has a diamond plate box on the back for the gate valve.

    This was done to eliminate having to climb up on top to get the free end of the hose- you could simply grab it while standing on the ground. For the odd reverse lay, just remove the hose from the gate and leave it in place.

    Our hydrants almost all have 1 4" steamer, and 2, 2 1/2" outlets, so the hydrant kit contains 2, 2 1/2" gate valves. Our SOP is to remove all caps, and gate all outlets. You can always add another line later, providing the plug will support it. If we're sitting on the hydrant, we use all three outlets. (3" and 5" donuts are carried for this) The hydrant kit is right there by the 5" gate valve, so it can be removed quickly by the hydrant man when forward laying.

    Far as I know, we've never used a hanger on the hosebed.

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    That's correct. The short folds are a necessity when packing rubber hose, as it is stiff and doesn't fold well. If you use woven jacket supply hose, the short folds may not be necessary, as some brands are quite supple

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    You guys are awesome!!!! Learned a few things on this post, which helped me out alot today.

    I've never really paid attention to the loading of the LDH. I usually need just need one section for this or that. Now (today) we are doing our third party aerial inspection. With that said, I had to lay one 100' section from the pumper to the aerial, but had to lay 400' from a hydrant to the pumper. (don't ask)

    Before pulling the LDH, I looked at how it was laid, remembering MG3's pics. Ours are the same. If it wasn't for his pics, I would have more than likely loaded it back up wrong.

    Thanks for the education.... AGAIN!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If you do it right you dont need the hangar to hold it in at all.
    You don't need it to hold it in, but you need it to keep it neat. It will stay in indefinitely, but it will not stay neat for long, no matter how you load it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    You don't need it to hold it in, but you need it to keep it neat. It will stay in indefinitely, but it will not stay neat for long, no matter how you load it.
    Around here we worry about fighting fire, not how neat it looks.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Around here we worry about fighting fire, not how neat it looks.
    Around here, we pay attention to detail. There is something to be said for company pride. If all you worry about is fighting fire, then you probably don't fight much of it. Departments that fight fire don't have to worry about it. They wait for it. In the meantime, having well maintained equipment is a sign of dedication to the job. You can talk like a fire-slaying jake on the internet all you want. I don't have shiny boots or the sharpest uniform. But my apparatus is a direct reflection of the pride I take in being a driver. I strive for mastery of my craft. Taking the extra three minutes to make sure the 5" is loaded properly, and the extra 3 seconds to snap a fan hanger in place aren't going too far out of the way to show the public and other companies that you care about the little things. But what would I know? I'm not a real jake like you.

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    I stand by my statement that if you pack it correctly you dont need the hangar to keep it neat. You must be doing something wrong. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings, please dont hit me with your purse.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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