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Thread: More PUC Stuff

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up More PUC Stuff

    I recently queried the forum about the PUC's true pumping abilities. Although it can pass a UL pump test, how does it perform in a real pumping scenario?

    We had a chance to test a PUC that belongs to a neighboring department and it reportedly fell short of expectations. However, another PUC was made available that had some new improvements to the pump internals to increase flow. I don't know how new these changes are. This particular engine was equipped with a Cummins motor and EVS transmission, and rated 1500 GPM. It was also a new Dash CF cab which is another thread.

    The PUC had no trouble on the test stand, achieving the UL benchmarks with no difficulty. We then dropped a second 6" hard suction in the water and pulled 2100 GPM. We then tested it's ability to relay pump by discharging from a single master discharge - it reached 1600 GPM. This PUC was a real performer!

    I was concerned about RPM's being so much higher than our conventional single-stage and 2-stage pumps. However, the RPM at it's highest (250 PSI test) was around 2100, and well below the 2400 RPM governed speed.

    I was most surprised by the quiet operation of the Cummins. At 2100 RPM we could carry on a conversation at the pump panel. This was a real bonus after seeing the pumping ability.

    Following the UL test we used it in some real world scenarios - relay pumping, pumping a ladderpipe, dual pumping , etc. It passed all scenarios with flying colors.


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    And what is your question? Are you trying to sell us or yourself on the truck?

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    Until your local service center folds, and you have to play the parts game to get something fixed. One big problem with Pierce, and any other manufacturer that uses patented and proprietary parts. If it's proprietary to them, you can only get parts from them. At least if you had a normal Hale, Waterous, or Darley Pump, anyone in the industry can get the parts required to make repairs.

    I'm not trying to knock the PUC idea, but when you get a similar offering from a different manufacturer you don't run into these problems. (and probably pay a lot less)

    And regarding your Dash CF thread, When you're positioned on the highway, is the manpower on the traffic side of the truck supposed to crawl over the dog house to get out the opposite "Safe" side? How do both of your 6'5" tall firefighters sit across from each other? Nothing new there... Gee, at one time every firetruck was "C"ab "F"orward, and we got away from them for good reasons.

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    Default BigJim

    I am passing on what I felt was very useful information. I was unable to find anyone on this forum who could cite some real pumping results, other than a local UL pump test.

    I was skeptical of the design due to the dual discharge volute and two separate discharge manifolds. But it works as well as a mid-ship. Maybe some others could find this info helpful.

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    Default EES Sean

    Actually, you can easily crawl over the doghouse. It's only 14" off the cab floor. And the engineer can easily slide over to the officer's side to exit the cab.

    And we don't buy 6-seat cabs. We are lucky to have a crew of four so two back seats would be eliminated.

    Certainly some good points about service and proprietary parts. Pierce service has not been 5 stars, but better than the last three major manufacturers that we purchased from - E-One, Saulsbury, and ALF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EES_SEAN View Post
    And regarding your Dash CF thread, When you're positioned on the highway, is the manpower on the traffic side of the truck supposed to crawl over the dog house to get out the opposite "Safe" side? How do both of your 6'5" tall firefighters sit across from each other? Nothing new there... Gee, at one time every firetruck was "C"ab "F"orward, and we got away from them for good reasons.
    Regardless of where the engine is located, isn't someone going to have to get out on the "traffic side" anyway? If not the crew in the rear portion of the cab, the driver/engineer?

    I had the chance to see the Dash CF last Thursday and honestly, I came away very impressed. It was at the dealership in Aurora, IL where they were having an open house to show the new cab. Many departments were there and all that I spoke with agreed that there seemed to me more room. The lower dog house is very handy indeed. Having the cooling system out of the cab really does help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EES_SEAN View Post
    And regarding your Dash CF thread, When you're positioned on the highway, is the manpower on the traffic side of the truck supposed to crawl over the dog house to get out the opposite "Safe" side?
    Now either the driver or officer has to get out on the traffic side. What's the difference?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EES_SEAN View Post
    Until your local service center folds, and you have to play the parts game to get something fixed. One big problem with Pierce, and any other manufacturer that uses patented and proprietary parts. If it's proprietary to them, you can only get parts from them. At least if you had a normal Hale, Waterous, or Darley Pump, anyone in the industry can get the parts required to make repairs.
    I believe that Darley supplies the pump for the Pierce PUC.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I believe that Darley supplies the pump for the Pierce PUC.
    You are correct. However, call Darley up and ask them for a part off a PUC pump. They can't sell it to you! Pierce has an agreement with them that parts have to be purchased through Pierce so they can earn their profit. Pierce does a wonderful job of private labeling parts so they can make money off of them.

    Also understand, profit is not a dirty word. Every manufacturer and dealership needs it if you want them to be around in a few years. The fire industry is a business and everyone needs to make money. However, some need to make a lot more than others to stay afloat in these challenging times. Remember, Pierce is a big machine and it takes a lot to feed it. They need to make money any way they can and this is just another avenue.

    To the previous poster's point, if it we're a straight up Hale, Darley or Waterous, you could buy the parts from any service center regardless if they sold Pierce apparatus or not and the parts cost are going to be dramatically less expensive.

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