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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by auxman View Post
    Wouldn't the need for that tall of a ground ladder be precluded by the honkin big ladder on top of the truck? Seems to me that would probably be easier and safer to use than a 45' or 50'.
    What if the main is being used for something else, on one end of the building....and you need access to make a pick in a hurry? Ever seen and studied pictures up close of a job in Boston?

    And T.C.........you guys are the exception.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    No it is useful in places where the bigger ladder on top cannot fit. The rear or sides of a four story, when you cannot get the truck down the alley. The rear of a garden apartment.
    just to name a few. Whilie these ladders are not used on everyday they come in handy.

    TAJM611- Is that a quint or true ladder truck? Straight truck or tiller?
    Quint. We're slowly moving our straight ladders to quints. They'd be a world of help but unfortunately they are fererra's so they spend 99% of their time broken.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    I know of only 1 M/A department that we have around here that carries a 50' extension. It's on their pumper that is 25 years old, and comes off once a year for ladder inspections. While there is most definitely the possibility that it could become useful, I'd say 99% of the calls that my department would respond on would not need such a monster. With the precious real estate that is on the rigs, I'd rather not take up space with a ladder that, in our case, would only get pulled for testing.

    Our quint does carry:
    2 16' roof
    2 18' roof
    2 10' attic
    1 24' 2 fly (I'm trying to get a 2nd added to the other side of the body)
    1 35' 3 fly
    Little Giant
    plus the 110' platform

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    Not to mention, a competent group of firefighters can throw a big ladder far quicker than they would set up the stick. 75% of the time we use portables to reach up and the stick to reach in. The waterways are tremendous help for defensive operations, though.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    What if the main is being used for something else, on one end of the building....and you need access to make a pick in a hurry? Ever seen and studied pictures up close of a job in Boston?

    And T.C.........you guys are the exception.......
    Not Really........We just have a LADDER.............with a pump. Since most buildings in town require a 35 minus,the consesus was to put 2 35's a 28' a couple 16's 2 12's and the lil Giant on. We DO have a 25' roof if needed but we haven't used it since the Tower was put in service. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    Not to mention, a competent group of firefighters can throw a big ladder far quicker than they would set up the stick. 75% of the time we use portables to reach up and the stick to reach in. The waterways are tremendous help for defensive operations, though.
    I am not sure what aerial you have seen work. I am sorry to see your post, and I dont doubt that is true in your case.

    I tell you, that I have owned a 95 tower by e-one, and I have had the ladder in service in less than 1 min 20 sec from the time I hit the air brake.

    I mentioned it in my earlier posts, which were obnoxiously drowned out by pages of GARBAGE.

    We would have the first two men out the back doors drop the *** end plates, then they would grab their respective tools for the job, the next two men out the door drop the forward plates, then grab their respective tools for the job. The operator would go right to the rear of the truck and put out rear jacks, and then front jacks, with e-one cross jacks this would take about 30 seconds to fully deploy an level the truck. Switch the interlock, then get on the turn table. As the operator would be at the turntable, the roof ops men would be walking down the stick to the platform, and as soon as the gate for the platform closed, the operator would put the tower in the air. As the tower would come off the bed, the men would plug into bucket air if need be, stretch the mini line (8ft) if need be, or prepare the saw. or whatever their specific task is for that job.

    Due to limited visibility, and access, and the men in the bucket getting situated, it was the operator at the turntable responsibility to get the men NEAR where they needed to be, within 10ft or so. The control would be switched to the bucket for the men to do the rest.

    I can elaborate on this more if need be.

    However, we made it systematic, so we would be efficient and expeditious and ROUTINE at our operations.

    This paid off in timing.

    I think if I remember correctly, an operator, and 4 men (dropping plates) can set an aerial of an e-one platform from wheels to jacks to ladder at 55ft in 48 seconds. PLEASE dont hold me to that. ITs been many years!

    I do know we were able to do what i previously described in under a min 20

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    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    I am not sure what aerial you have seen work. I am sorry to see your post, and I dont doubt that is true in your case.

    I tell you, that I have owned a 95 tower by e-one, and I have had the ladder in service in less than 1 min 20 sec from the time I hit the air brake.

    I mentioned it in my earlier posts, which were obnoxiously drowned out by pages of GARBAGE.

    We would have the first two men out the back doors drop the *** end plates, then they would grab their respective tools for the job, the next two men out the door drop the forward plates, then grab their respective tools for the job. The operator would go right to the rear of the truck and put out rear jacks, and then front jacks, with e-one cross jacks this would take about 30 seconds to fully deploy an level the truck. Switch the interlock, then get on the turn table. As the operator would be at the turntable, the roof ops men would be walking down the stick to the platform, and as soon as the gate for the platform closed, the operator would put the tower in the air. As the tower would come off the bed, the men would plug into bucket air if need be, stretch the mini line (8ft) if need be, or prepare the saw. or whatever their specific task is for that job.

    Due to limited visibility, and access, and the men in the bucket getting situated, it was the operator at the turntable responsibility to get the men NEAR where they needed to be, within 10ft or so. The control would be switched to the bucket for the men to do the rest.

    I can elaborate on this more if need be.

    However, we made it systematic, so we would be efficient and expeditious and ROUTINE at our operations.

    This paid off in timing.

    I think if I remember correctly, an operator, and 4 men (dropping plates) can set an aerial of an e-one platform from wheels to jacks to ladder at 55ft in 48 seconds. PLEASE dont hold me to that. ITs been many years!

    I do know we were able to do what i previously described in under a min 20
    To the window in under a 1:20 or ready to be moved and placed in under 1:20?

    While it's entirely possible to get it to the window in a little over a minute, it still takes us less than a minute to place a portable to a window and in residential cases, many prefer entrance and egress off of a portable vs the aerial. You're also taking manpower for granted. In our case, for my volly, it's me (driver) and a firefighter. While he's getting ready, I can place a portable in place, have him do his job, and get the stick to another window as his second means of egress.

    It's all dependent on department and scenario. There are times when our aerial is the best choice but we aren't dependent on it. Long story short, a big aerial won't make up for inadequacies in portable ladder skills.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    To the window in under a 1:20 or ready to be moved and placed in under 1:20?

    While it's entirely possible to get it to the window in a little over a minute, it still takes us less than a minute to place a portable to a window and in residential cases, many prefer entrance and egress off of a portable vs the aerial. You're also taking manpower for granted. In our case, for my volly, it's me (driver) and a firefighter. While he's getting ready, I can place a portable in place, have him do his job, and get the stick to another window as his second means of egress.

    It's all dependent on department and scenario. There are times when our aerial is the best choice but we aren't dependent on it. Long story short, a big aerial won't make up for inadequacies in portable ladder skills.
    And THIS is why the SMART money is on having Both available. In OUR case,1 guy can set the platform up. He's gonna be busy but it can be done. A 35 alone? Not such a great idea. But the platform can't get everywhere,so a good selection of ground ladders is a necessity. T.C.

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    A 35' alone isn't the easiest, but many forget that it's entirely possible. I'm not sure how many departments do it but we tend to take every thursday and saturday is ladder training. When we quit the whole "point the tip to the tower window, place it, retract it back" bull ****, and started actually working from the aerial, and spending 75% of our time throwing portables, our fire ground operations improved tremendously. Again, not speaking for everyone else's situations but some tend to rely a little to heavily on the aerial and neglect basic laddering skills.

    Just my take on it. Quints are a tremendous help to many smaller and even some big departments. Even after coming for a truck company, I actually prefer them to a straight ladder truck. We don't have platforms here and it works fine for us. While I see how some may prefer them, it's just not my cup of coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    And THIS is why the SMART money is on having Both available. In OUR case,1 guy can set the platform up. He's gonna be busy but it can be done. A 35 alone? Not such a great idea. But the platform can't get everywhere,so a good selection of ground ladders is a necessity. T.C.
    True, since we've phased out straight sticks for quints, we've been extremely grateful. Last fairly large fire we had, the engine decided it wasn't going to pump, pulled it up 30 feet, put the quint in its place. We had water flowing 20 seconds after the problem was discovered. Had it been a straight truck, we would have been waiting for over a minute and a half. I was brought up on a truck but I'm not too proud to say I don't mind the pump and lines being there.
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    Primary reason for my previous department going from an Aerialscope without a pump to a Quint was that it allowed us to remove an engine from the fleet, which would have been replaced sooner, but was held on too so we had an engine committed to pumping the tower.

    When the Tower was requested mutual aid we also sent an engine to pump it if needed, which tied uip additional manpower out-of-town. Once the Quint was put in service it could lay it's own line and opump the Tower so the response of the engine along with it was discontinued unless requested.

    The vehicle was bought as a truck, and ran third out behind the first 2 engines, and while I was there, at least, it never pumped an attack line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    A 35' alone isn't the easiest, but many forget that it's entirely possible. I'm not sure how many departments do it but we tend to take every thursday and saturday is ladder training. When we quit the whole "point the tip to the tower window, place it, retract it back" bull ****, and started actually working from the aerial, and spending 75% of our time throwing portables, our fire ground operations improved tremendously. Again, not speaking for everyone else's situations but some tend to rely a little to heavily on the aerial and neglect basic laddering skills.

    Just my take on it. Quints are a tremendous help to many smaller and even some big departments. Even after coming for a truck company, I actually prefer them to a straight ladder truck. We don't have platforms here and it works fine for us. While I see how some may prefer them, it's just not my cup of coffee.
    You'll get NO argument from me on ground ladders or their use. We bought the Platform for OUR specfic needs and again,I agree that they aren't for everybody. We had a 100' straight stick for a number of years and the biggest trouble we've had with the transition is the Officers neglecting to use the Platform as a Tactical weapon. The old Ladder was a MAJOR Pita to set up for ladderpipe ops......the Platform is essentially plug and play. For what we do,the platform was/is the answer.Like some of the rest of you,it won't reach everywhere so I put just as many ground ladders as I could easily fit on it. AND the system works GREAT. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 09-20-2011 at 02:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Primary reason for my previous department going from an Aerialscope without a pump to a Quint was that it allowed us to remove an engine from the fleet, which would have been replaced sooner, but was held on too so we had an engine committed to pumping the tower.

    When the Tower was requested mutual aid we also sent an engine to pump it if needed, which tied uip additional manpower out-of-town. Once the Quint was put in service it could lay it's own line and opump the Tower so the response of the engine along with it was discontinued unless requested.

    The vehicle was bought as a truck, and ran third out behind the first 2 engines, and while I was there, at least, it never pumped an attack line.
    I've noticed that in a few areas. I'm no expert on ISO and have heard plenty of conflicting information as to wether or not ratings count them as pumpers on scene. I know, as a line firefighter as opposed to office workers, iso doesn't mean **** to me. Our quints can do everything our old trucks did with the safety net of pumping capabities. It also comes into play really well now that we're beginning a transition into all stations being dual apparatus stations and if the truck company are done with truck duties, they can act as almost a back up engine, preventing the need to call in other engine companies and spreading resources too thin.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

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    Quote Originally Posted by tajm611 View Post
    I've noticed that in a few areas. I'm no expert on ISO and have heard plenty of conflicting information as to wether or not ratings count them as pumpers on scene. I know, as a line firefighter as opposed to office workers, iso doesn't mean **** to me. Our quints can do everything our old trucks did with the safety net of pumping capabities. It also comes into play really well now that we're beginning a transition into all stations being dual apparatus stations and if the truck company are done with truck duties, they can act as almost a back up engine, preventing the need to call in other engine companies and spreading resources too thin.
    The quint did not count for pump capacity, which wasn't an issue as we had 6 1500gpm engines even after we retired of the 7th engine a couple of years after the Quint was purchased.

    While the Quint could function as a backup engine, it ran out of our main station which housed 3 engines.
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