3rd Engine vs 95ft Quint by E-ONE

[LaFireEducator]

LA thank you for ruining another thread on this site. I have an idea lets start an LAfire thread on the main forum if you want to bash LA you post it in there. You all can argue with him all you want.

If you'll look back FWD attacked me first .. Again.

Up until that post my comments were on topic.

It's really simple ... You attack me, I'm responding. You don't attack me .. The thread stays on topic.

[Bones42]

LA thank you for ruining another thread on this site. I have an idea lets start an LAfire thread on the main forum if you want to bash LA you post it in there. You all can argue with him all you want.

As you stated above....he is not alone. He has his "followers" that can't help but attack him on every thread....even when he is not on the thread.

[tajm611]

Save for a few post, I feel the conversation right now is fairly civil. If you're this agitated that the conversation isn't your forte' then feel free to leave. Offline, do you cry and demand control of a conversation or do you put on your big boy pants and be mature about it?

Yes, many, including me, attack lafire but if you're so determined to silence anyone who talks about something youdl don't like, you probably shouldn't use the Internet.

[LaFireEducator]

Just so I know I'm fully understanding you:

You're fully suggesting that fires in your area are prediomently routine in nature. A least routine enough that you are able to nearly predict both conditions on arrival and/or predict both skills and resources needed to get it under control.

Though the basic fire ground operation of rescue is used in all but the most limited of circumstances, it's operation is both trained on and utilized, yet, many other basic fire ground operations, also rare and chances of utilization are low, are completely logical to both omit and ignore.

In a nut shell, this is what you're saying?

Yes, that is what I am saying.

No fires are "routine", however since I have been here, 95% of of our structure fires, excluding small sheds and outbuildings, have occurred in 3 types of structures - single-wides, double-wides and site built homes. The other 5% represents the rare commercial fire or odd-ball fire in a low frequency structure type.

We have a limited number of occupancy types, and those fires in those occupancy types will generally spread in predictable ways and yes, at fairly predictatable speeds.

There's no secret that you can look at building types and make a fairly accurate prediction of fire conditions in X amount of time under normal conditions. For example we know that an older model trailer will burn from end to end in less than 15 minutes from ignition. Given that, when we are dispatched to street Z, which is all older model trailers, we are likely to find a fully involved structure on arrival. We know that the newer double-wides may burn somewhat slower.

I don't think that's rocket science.

And yes, since the bulk of our fires are in those 3 structure types, we are very well aware of the skill sets and resources, including likely water and manpower requirements, needed for those operations.

We have enough experienced members and members trained to advanced certification levels that faced with that rare commercial fire or odd-ball structure fire, we adapt, and deal with the situation, but again our training is focused on the skill levels of our volunteers, not our advanced members.

Again, I'm sure you're departments are the same.

You disagree wirth ommitting or training infrequently on low frequency operations. I have no problems with that, but I disagree.

Training time is finite resource, especially with volunteers. Unless you decide that you want to mandate an increase in that training time, which will have concequences, the department must priotize it's training and that means deciding which skills are critical to it's operation, and which skills, though possibly still important, are less critical. In a perfect world, training time would be unlimited, but in the real world, decisions have to be made regarding which skills I will teach in the time I have to teach it. This is especially true in the volunteer enviroment.

Does that mean that one day you may come across a building or vehicle fire you are not trained to fight or a rescue you are not trained to perform? Yes. And that's unfortunate, but that is the reality of dealing with volunteers with limited training time. I'm not afraid to say that there simply isn't enough time to train volunteers to handle every type of emergency we could possibly face but we can train them to handle most, if not all, of the emergencies we probably will face if we understand our districts.

Even if we were to increase mandated training time by 25%, we would still have to make choices. Likeley it would be the same with a 50% increase, which would be unreasonable for volunteers and still leave uncovered topics that you may consider critical, but in our enviroment may have little if any relevence.

I guess to you, that makes them unprepared and unprofessional. You beleive that all firefighters should be prepared to handle all situations, and that is your opinion. So be it. That might be fine in acareer enviroment with far more training time than is available with volunteers, but I guess I'm a little more realistic. To me, I beleive in making the most of the training time available and using that to make them better at the most likely situations we, as a department given our hazards and structures, will face. As I stated earlier I have no illusions about being ready for everything.

Let's save the rest of this discussion for another time and thread.

[Bones42]

Save for a few post, I feel the conversation right now is fairly civil. If you're this agitated that the conversation isn't your forte' then feel free to leave. Offline, do you cry and demand control of a conversation or do you put on your big boy pants and be mature about it?

Yes, many, including me, attack lafire but if you're so determined to silence anyone who talks about something youdl don't like, you probably shouldn't use the Internet.

or people could try to stay on topic.

[RFD21C]

or people could try to stay on topic.

Exactly it is getting old the thread turns into the same debate with LA. I will go out on a limb and even state that the first few post by LA were topic related. We were having a relevent discussion on engine versus quint and then it turns into the same old **** with LA. I by no means am trying to control or censor anyone on here. Just getting ****ed that every thread turns out this way.

[RFD21C]

Save for a few post, I feel the conversation right now is fairly civil. If you're this agitated that the conversation isn't your forte' then feel free to leave. Offline, do you cry and demand control of a conversation or do you put on your big boy pants and be mature about it?

Yes, many, including me, attack lafire but if you're so determined to silence anyone who talks about something youdl don't like, you probably shouldn't use the Internet.

How many of your 1500 post are related to LA arguing. You post alot of valid stuff and have many great points. But I am willing to be atleast 500 post are filled with the same old lafire bs. You could almost copy and paste every thread that turns into an LAfire debate.

[tajm611]

I won't refute that. I'm a one trick pony.

[LaFireEducator]

How many of your 1500 post are related to LA arguing. You post alot of valid stuff and have many great points. But I am willing to be atleast 500 post are filled with the same old lafire bs. You could almost copy and paste every thread that turns into an LAfire debate.

Dang..... You've figured out my cut and paste trick.

[FWDbuff]

How many of your 1500 post are related to LA arguing. You post alot of valid stuff and have many great points. But I am willing to be atleast 500 post are filled with the same old lafire bs. You could almost copy and paste every thread that turns into an LAfire debate.

I think that as long as he continues to spread his bullschit, a few of us out here will combat him. I feel it's my duty, as a "senior man" here in the virtual firehouse to help guide and educate the younger and less experienced members and steer them away from the trainwreck of information that he disburses.

As someone previously mentioned- you can put him on ignore. And that goes for myself, as well. I will lose approximately .02 nanoseconds of sleep if you choose that route (if that much.)

Have a pleasant day!

[ATFDFF]

I think that as long as he continues to spread his bullschit, a few of us out here will combat him. I feel it's my duty, as a "senior man" here in the virtual firehouse to help guide and educate the younger and less experienced members and steer them away from the trainwreck of information that he disburses.

As someone previously mentioned- you can put him on ignore. And that goes for myself, as well. I will lose approximately .02 nanoseconds of sleep if you choose that route (if that much.)

Have a pleasant day!

Okay, then confront him WHEN he spews it. This thread...HE DIDN'T!

[FWDbuff]

Okay, then confront him WHEN he spews it. This thread...HE DIDN'T!

Fair enough. I just dont feel he is qualified to dispense information regarding tactical offensive firefighting when considering the purchase of a major piece of equipment.

I will cease and desist further engagement with him in this thread effective immediately.

[RFD21C]

Fair enough. I just dont feel he is qualified to dispense information regarding tactical offensive firefighting when considering the purchase of a major piece of equipment.

I will cease and desist further engagement with him in this thread effective immediately.

Thank You!!!

[RFD21C]

Lets get back to talking about fire trucks!

Does anybody carry a 45 or 50 footer on a quint?

[FWDbuff]

Lets get back to talking about fire trucks!

Does anybody carry a 45 or 50 footer on a quint?

I dont think I have EVER seen a quint that did not have anything more than one 35'

[Rescue101]

I dont think I have EVER seen a quint that did not have anything more than one 35'

Well,OBVIOUSLY,you never looked at OURS! Better check back in that ol TC's building a Ladder thread............hehe T.C.

[RFD21C]

I dont think I have EVER seen a quint that did not have anything more than one 35'

Yea we only carry

1 14' small ext ladder
1 10' attic ladder
2 14' roof ladder
1 16' roof ladder
1 24' ext ladder
1 35 ext ladder

However with up to 6 quints on a working fire we have plenty of ground ladders on scene. However I wish we had a few 45' or 50' ladders for those few times they are needed. We used to carry them on the tiller trucks prior to switching to the quint concept back in 1998.

I have never seen one on a quint and was wondering if anyone does.

[auxman]

Wouldn't the need for that tall of a ground ladder be precluded by the honkin big ladder on top of the truck? Seems to me that would probably be easier and safer to use than a 45' or 50'.

[tajm611]

Wouldn't the need for that tall of a ground ladder be precluded by the honkin big ladder on top of the truck? Seems to me that would probably be easier and safer to use than a 45' or 50'.

Not necessarily. Trees between the window and truck, power lines, other accessibility hindering scenarios...

We carry a 45' on ours for that very reason.

[RFD21C]

Wouldn't the need for that tall of a ground ladder be precluded by the honkin big ladder on top of the truck? Seems to me that would probably be easier and safer to use than a 45' or 50'.

No it is useful in places where the bigger ladder on top cannot fit. The rear or sides of a four story, when you cannot get the truck down the alley. The rear of a garden apartment.
just to name a few. Whilie these ladders are not used on everyday they come in handy.

TAJM611- Is that a quint or true ladder truck? Straight truck or tiller?