Hiring off of an Eligibility List.

[tazman7]

I was just wondering if anybody could tell me the procedure of hiring off of a hiring list?

I always thought that it was a state law to go straight down the list (1,2,3,4,5....) when hiring.

Reason I was wondering was because I was handing in an application for a department today, when I looked at the hiring list that was posted on the wall and I am in the top five, but there is a guy that I know that was below me on the list (#10) but is listed as working full-time with that department now.

What is the point of a hiring list if they just hire whoever they want to anyways?


Thank you.

[WD6956]

I was just wondering if anybody could tell me the procedure of hiring off of a hiring list?

I always thought that it was a state law to go straight down the list (1,2,3,4,5....) when hiring.

Reason I was wondering was because I was handing in an application for a department today, when I looked at the hiring list that was posted on the wall and I am in the top five, but there is a guy that I know that was below me on the list (#10) but is listed as working full-time with that department now.

What is the point of a hiring list if they just hire whoever they want to anyways?


Thank you.

Not sure if things vary where you are, but people are called in order off the list for INTERVIEWS. Not to be hired directly. Out here, most departments will call in DOUBLE the number of people they need to hire figuring that many people may do poorly on the interview and/or not have much of a resume. So lets say the department is hiring 10 people, they are going to call in the top 20 for interviews. You may be #1 on the list and not get hired. You may be #20 and get hired when they are only looking for 10 people. Just doing well on a test does not mean the job is yours. I know plenty of people who got 100's on the FF Exam yet they bombed their interviews. A good freind of mine was #3 on a list for a department hiring 3 people and #8 on the list got the job over him because he had much more expierience.

[tazman7]

For this department we took a written test, the cpat test took place of the physical, and then we each had an oral interview. They combined the scores of the oral interview, written test, and the preference points and posted a final hiring list.

[WD6956]

For this department we took a written test, the cpat test took place of the physical, and then we each had an oral interview. They combined the scores or the oral and written test, the preference points and posted a final hiring list.

An oral exam is not an interview. And their is still the question of past work history. This person who you say was hired over you despite being #10 on the list, do you know anything about his past history? He could have a much more diverse background in Firefighting or other special skills. And what about Veteran status? That comes into play as well.

[tazman7]

An oral exam is not an interview. And their is still the question of past work history. This person who you say was hired over you despite being #10 on the list, do you know anything about his past history? He could have a much more diverse background in Firefighting or other special skills. And what about Veteran status? That comes into play as well.

It was an oral interview.

Persons past work history shows a 22ish year old. poc on the department. Has FF II/Paramedic, AAS of Fire science degree. No experience as a paramedic due to getting license after being hired.

No diverse history in firefighting, no veteran points.



I think you may be confused as to how the testing around here works. Ill give you the rundown:
Applications due
Background check
Written test
Physical test or CPAT card that is good for one year and done by an outside agency
Oral Interview
Some departments to a psychological test** (Not this one we are talking about)
Medical examination


They take the scores from the written test, oral INTERVIEW, and preference points and then post a final eligibility list to hire from.

[WD6956]

Persons past work history shows a 22ish year old. poc on the department. Has FF II/Paramedic, AAS of Fire science degree. No experience as a paramedic due to getting license after being hired.

No diverse history in firefighting, no veteran points.

Fire Science Degree is a pretty big thing. And being a Paramedic is HUGE. Even with no expierience using it yet. Most Paramedic programs will take close to two years and about $15,000. And none of that included getting your EMT beforehand.

We have departments out here in Mass that will not even hire you unless you are a Paramedic already. Again, i am not from your area and don't know exactly how things work around where you are. But it certainly sounds like the hiring list is like here, it guarantees you an interview, not a job.

[tazman7]

Fire Science Degree is a pretty big thing. And being a Paramedic is HUGE. Even with no expierience using it yet. Most Paramedic programs will take close to two years and about $15,000. And none of that included getting your EMT beforehand.

We have departments out here in Mass that will not even hire you unless you are a Paramedic already. Again, i am not from your area and don't know exactly how things work around where you are. But it certainly sounds like the hiring list is like here, it guarantees you an interview, not a job.

I don't want to sound rude, but can you even read?? I have explained how the testing works and you still don't get it.
WE HAD OUR INTERVIEWS! WE HANDED IN PREFERENCE POINTS before the final list was posted. There is nothing else left to do besides medical exams, and those are done when they call you and are in the process of hiring you.
There are no more interviews, no more he has an associates degree and a paramedic license...everything has been accounted for and all of the points tallied up on the final eligibility list.

[WD6956]

I don't want to sound rude, but can you even read?? I have explained how the testing works and you still don't get it. .

Listen pal, i can read just fine, i stated pretty clearly that I DON'T KNOW HOW THINGS WORK IN ILLINOIS. I even said with my examples that is how we do things HERE. Kind of silly to accuse me of not knowing how your hiring works when clearly even you don't know. If you did, this thread would not exist.

If what you are saying is true, that a guy who had a higher number then you got hired before you and that degrees and certs do not matter and their are no other interviews, then their are only four possible scenarios....

1. This guy illegally jumped you and you have a legitimate gripe and possible lawsuit.
2. Their IS more to the hiring process then you know about and/or understand.
3. You have this guy who was hired ahead of you confused with someone else.
4. The department in question does not use a civil service list and they hired him outside the list.

That's it, their are no other options. Based on your attitude, my guess is their is more to the hiring process then you know about. You seem to know alot about this guys education and background. I would imagine getting his phone number or stopping by his station would be simple. Why not just call him and/or show up and ask him?. It's a fair question and he should not be bothered by it. At least you would have a firm answer and not a bunch of assumptions.

[tazman7]

Listen pal, i can read just fine, i stated pretty clearly that I DON'T KNOW HOW THINGS WORK IN ILLINOIS. I even said with my examples that is how we do things HERE. Kind of silly to accuse me of not knowing how your hiring works when clearly even you don't know. If you did, this thread would not exist.

If what you are saying is true, that a guy who had a higher number then you got hired before you and that degrees and certs do not matter and their are no other interviews, then their are only four possible scenarios....

1. This guy illegally jumped you and you have a legitimate gripe and possible lawsuit.
2. Their IS more to the hiring process then you know about and/or understand.
3. You have this guy who was hired ahead of you confused with someone else.
4. The department in question does not use a civil service list and they hired him outside the list.

That's it, their are no other options. Based on your attitude, my guess is their is more to the hiring process then you know about. You seem to know alot about this guys education and background. I would imagine getting his phone number or stopping by his station would be simple. Why not just call him and/or show up and ask him?. It's a fair question and he should not be bothered by it. At least you would have a firm answer and not a bunch of assumptions.

I do know how the hiring process works. I just didnt know if it was legal for fire departments to skip nine people to get to a person that they know, that's all I was asking.

You kept saying that just because I am on the list, doesnt mean I am in the running for a job, it means I am in line for an interview. Which isnt true...we already had interviews and I told you that in my second post, but yet in your third post you still didnt understand what I was saying after I spelled everything out for you.

What I am saying is that a guy that had a lower number than me and nine other people got hired first off of the final hiring list. You had to be a paramedic and ff II to even apply. You got extra preference points for Military, education and person on call status with their department. After all of the scores were added up he was still in 10th place. That is the part I am confused about.

[FFPM03]

Having done a bunch of testing in this great state I thought you had to go down the list...at least that's how I've always seen it done. People could pass/fail next portions but if they totally skipped you that's odd. I know what you mean with the final list and all. I know someone that was skipped over for no reason and he is fighting it(I think it's going on like 2 years and gone nowhere). I personally would just not worry about it and keep testing. It definetly is a slap in the face, but departments seem to do some odd things these days. If it bugs you that much I would call them and ask. I've been testing for 3 years as much as I could and finally got hired on a municipality last month, just keep going. Can't tell you how many times I got kicked down, but it's worth it in the end!

[CaptOldTimer]

As long as I have been associated with city governments, and fire department hiring, it goes something like this.

You make application. You take a written exam. You pass high enough on that then you are invited for the CPAT or Physical Agility exam.

IF you pass that, then you are ranked by your scores.


Let's say now that the department is going to hired 20 candidates. They will take more than the number being hired for final interview. That is 5+1 or 6 people for 1 job. Figured out the math, Usually if the department is hiring 20, they will interview the top 40 plus ties. That being said, there may be 50 or so folks getting interviews.


The Fire Chief can select the 20 new folks from the complete lest, based on the candidates raking after the interviews. Some folks do very well on interviews, while some really had no business of ever getting one.


Once the Chief make the selections, those folk will report for a complete medical physical. You have to pass everything. There are alternates to those who were selected. Those who don't get their names kicked to the side and others who didn't get selection the first time gets a shot at the medicals part.


I know no state law, saying you have to hired 1 - 2- -3 - 4 and so on.

[JayDudley]

Some departments use what is called "The rule of Five." If they need one person they can call in five and select any of the five they want and put the rest back on the list. You could be number 1 on a list and never get hired. Others may have more "Stamps" (experience or diplomas) than you....that's the stark truth and everyone who takes tests know that. The days of hiring streight down a list...i.e. #1 then #2 etc. etc. went out the window with Banding ..."A" Band , "B" Band and "C" Band.

[fire49]

Tazman

With the list you saw posted

Did it include background checks??????

[tazman7]

Tazman

With the list you saw posted

Did it include background checks??????

Yes it was posted.
Background checks were done prior to interviews.