Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Sutphen

  1. #21
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KuhShise View Post
    Our Sutphen heavy duty usually occupies the rear half of the middle bay (reserve position) and is generally parked behind a 1979 Mack CF. It holds this position because of the cab design and the decision to put a 3208 CAT lashed to a 1750 Watrous. The extra width of the CAT required a wider than normal dog-house, and as a result the larger drivers must slam the door shut with some degree of force to wedge our posteriors between the door and dog-house. There is very little room for your legs and feet and on a long run it becomes quite uncomfortable. I was once detailed to take this rig to a LODD at Erie and spent a very uncomfortable day running the 3 hrs each way.
    The second problem, (more serious) is the Class 1 pressure governor and the reaction time for the large CAT when providing water to the hand lines. Typical spike pressues on the lines still operating climb well over 300 psi when a working line is shut down. (We run 180 psi on preconnects) As a result, we found it necessary to install a relief valve as well as the pressure governor. This makes a very nice rig for pump training, but also requires well trained operators to avoid the two systems fighting each other. When working large industrial fires with high flow requirements (like feeding an aerial) this engine out-performs everything in the fleet except the 94 Pierce with a 3176 Cat and 2,000 gpm Watrous. Would we buy another one? NO, but when you have high flow requirements, I would take it before the KME's, Mack, or Pierce for performance and safety.
    You sure you got your #'s right? A 3208 is a mouse motor Cat even Turbo'ed. About the same width as a 534 gas. A 3408 on the other hand is a Sizable powerplant. Unless the system was OLD,reaction time is like any V8. I enjoy your insightful posts but having owned and operated a fair number of 3208's they AREN'T an engine I would pick by CHOICE for Fire service work. T.C.


  2. #22
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    You sure you got your #'s right? A 3208 is a mouse motor Cat even Turbo'ed. About the same width as a 534 gas. A 3408 on the other hand is a Sizable powerplant. Unless the system was OLD,reaction time is like any V8. I enjoy your insightful posts but having owned and operated a fair number of 3208's they AREN'T an engine I would pick by CHOICE for Fire service work. T.C.
    I gotta go along with you on that one, T.C. I haven't been paying close attention here because of being away alot during the past couple of weeks (was even not too far away from you this past Sunday, Milton, N.H.) I can't believe a 3208 would drive a 1750 at capacity. I would have to check the numbers but I think you need something approaching 250 HP at the impeller shaft to do that. I don't think any 3208 would come close after parasitics and going through the trans. I never heard of a 3408 finding its way into the fire service, either, but maybe some did. That's a lot of engine, and lots of radiator needed to cool it. Sure it's not a 3406?

    I'm shaky on the 3176 driving a 2000 GPM pump, too. I see one reference to it maxing out at 325 HP. I don't know if there'd be enough of it left to run a 2000. Although, I did see another reference to it being taken to 600 HP at 2300 for marine use. Almost like those Johnson & Towers 6-71s in boats.

    Hey, Kuh, whose body with the roll up doors is that on the CF Mack?

  3. #23
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Up until recently we had 2 Sutphen Reserve Engines and 1 Front Line 100' tower. (Recently donated the oldest engine 1980 I believe to a local college for their fire academy)

    The engines are/were great. I would much rather take the open cab 1987 Sutphen over the 1994 Darley/International that we currently have assigned to our house.

    Our Sutphen aerial isn't bad at all, I just haven't had much experience with other manufacturers to compare it to. Some guys at work who are vollies elsewhere that have midmounts from other manufacturers say that the Sutphen does not turn as well as the others. While I was going through the drivers training process on the truck I just had to force myself to remember how far the bucket sticks off the back of the truck and that I had to adjust accordingly.

    Just a few months ago we took delivery of a Sutphen/International 1500gpm engine. It is a pretty decent rig, fairly stock and I think it cost just under 300k. Only problems are that it is takes a mule team, a strong tail wind, and about a week to accelerate and it still turns like crap. We were told that the turning radius would be vastly improved over our previously "newest" engine which is a 99 Darley/International, but I don't notice too much of an improvement.

    I am spoiled that at the vollie house we have all custom cabs and prefer those over the commercials that we have at work. The only Sutphen we have there is an 1983 65' quint and its not a bad truck by any means... it out pumps just about every other truck in the firehouse, but despite our best efforts to take care of her, she has definitely seen better days and is showing her wear and tear. It doesn't get out too much as with our plethora of McMansions with ridiculous set backs and tons of commercial and industrial occupancies it just doesn't cut it. Alot of guys want to spec out a new one but IMHO it would be fiscally irresponsible to waste our taxpayers money because we are surrounded on all sides by aerials. 100' towers on 3 sides and a 75' stick on the 4th. At last count I think we had 9 or 10 truck companies within a 10-12 minute drive of our first due. We already get a truck on the initial alarm assignment from an automatic mutual aid department so it would be pretty foolish to drop 1 mil plus on something we can't really justify. (I personally would like to see that million dollars go towards a new, fully stocked rescue squad, but I'm somewhat biased towards squad work )
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  4. #24
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    I've seen a mixed bag from Sutphen. Their quality has improved greatly in the last few years. On of the more common problems is the door window cranks breaking, which is more of an annoyance. You do need to do a VERY thourogh job of writing the specs. We have a new Sutphen sitting in the bay that doesn't even have hose on it yet. Very nice looking truck. One weird thing is that everything on top is non-skid diamond plate, yet there's "Not a Step" labels every where. WTF??? My VFD dept recently spec'd a pumper tanker, and we looked at Sutphen and Pierce. Sutphen just couldn't quite beat out Pierce in price and quality. They were close though. I would never by a commercial chassied truck from Sutphen. My fulltime dept did in '99, and they were the worst abortions ever built. We got rid of ours after only 3 years and went to a spare '89 custom that had seen better days.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    7

    Thumbs up

    We've owned several Sutphen's here in upstate NY over the years, our 1st was a 1997 SP100, ran like a tank. Had Seagrave, Mack and Beck before that, we all know happened to Beck...out of business...Mack also (too bad!). Our 1986 Seagrave also ran like a tank. We have a pretty good maintenance plan for our trucks, so as long as you take care of them, almost any brand will last longer. In 2002 we had Sutphen East build a mini-pumper. Wouldn't go through that again, would always stick with Sutphen Corp in Ohio. During that time, they didn't really have a great sales force, but since then around here in upstate NY they have got their share of the market back and then some. The Shield series really helped them, same as with the SPH. Only problems we've really had is with the components, not the craftsmanship of the actual truck. Had numberous issues with Hale CAFSPRO, to the point where we are getting rid of it. It works good now, after they've upgraded the parts, and it is expensive to operate...going back to basics. Also had BIG problems with Detroit motors after their 2007 emission upgrade. Almost had to sue Detroit to get them to repair the engine after local service shop couldn't do a thing for us, they had no idea what they were doing. President of Sutphen stepped in AFTER their warranty and basically made the repair happen. A lot of others would have just left us hanging. To me that showed great loyalty. So because of that, engine wise it's Cummins this time around, virtually no other choice anyway. I would say to a lot of departments out there, service your rigs 2x per year or after heavy use, keep them clean and they hold up for years. Don't spend the money on the bells and whistles unless they are absolutely necessary and spec it for what you need it for to keep costs down. The Shield we are spec'ing is the same price as our '08 Sutphen Monarch, with no hydraulic generator and light tower, so prices have skyrocketed. Still much cheaper than Pierce. They are definitely building more trucks per year, according to our build #'s, I think they went from building 100 trucks per year in 05-08 to over 200 per year from 08-12. We've had 6 Sutphen's since 1997 and have had pretty good luck with them. We gave another manufacturer their shot, but in the end we are just happy with what Sutphen offers, we know what we are getting when we buy one. We even got our service shop Sutphen certified, so we are lucky, not only do we have a quality piece of apparatus, but we also get 'factory' certified service.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    7

    Thumbs up

    We've had several Sutphen's since 1997, when we purchased a SP100, our 1st. The truck ran like a tank. Sold it after about 10 years old and got 75% return on investment. We've had a Beck (and we all know what happened to them), out of business after only a few years, Mack also went of business (too bad!), and Seagrave. All ran well except for the Beck, was a piece of junk. And we have a pretty good maintenance schedule, so our trucks hold up really well. Since the '97 we've had them build a mini-pumper, 2 Monarch's, and an SPH100. Have a Shield on order, expected delivery June 2012, should be at NYSAFC Show at Turning Stone. The mini-pumper was built by Sutphen East in NY in 2002. But, in my opinion I would have everything built in OH. That truck wasn't a bad truck, just eventually wasn't a good fit for us. We could have used some guidance from the salesman at the time and didn't really get it. Since then there upstate NY dealer is selling Sutphen's like hotcakes. I can tell from the build numbers they have doubled production from '05-'08 to '08-'12. So they must be doing something right. Up here it's Sutphen, Pierce, E-One, and KME with a few Ferrara's, Toyne's, other small manufacturers sprinkled in. We gave Pierce a good shot at getting their truck into our station, but in the end, they couldn't offer what we wanted in a smaller sized truck, with a lot more compartmentation, and MUCH lower hosebed and for about $20K less. Basically the only issues we've had with out Sutphens was the components, not the craftsmanship of the truck. Our '05 CAFS pumper's Hale CAFSPRO was junk in the beginning, needed years to get it dialed in...works good now, but is very expensive to operate. Our '08 Monarch and SPH100 also run really well, but we had a major engine problem with the Detroit motors. The injector cups needed replacing and the local shop had no idea how to fix it. Practically had to sue Detorit to get the problem resolved, after no help, the President of Supthen stepped in and helped get the repair done. That showed a great deal of loyalty to me. We were always Detroit (except for the Mack) but because of the that we went with Cummins (basically the only choice anyway). And the Pierce rep was pushing the Detroit (now Mercedes Benz) engine. Most others would have left us hanging. We even got our local repair shop Sutphen certified. So we are lucky, we have have great quality apparatus and can get 'factory' certified service when needed only about 15 mins away.

  7. #27
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    We just got 7 Sutphen engines at my career dept., nice looking trucks. However, we've had some issues with the one at my stattion, which in my experience is not unusual for the Sutphen brand. Most of the stuff is fit and finish type things, no major problems that are catastrophic so far. Sutphen's tend to have poor window mechanisms and door latch hardware. The 12v outlets on our truck were wired wrong, and the electronic siren is not working. (we have a Q also) The floor matting tends to wear through prettly quick, but if you put it some heavy rubber horse stall mats, that will never be a problem. Brakes on a couple of trucks had to be adjusted at the start as well, don't know if that's a Sutphen problem or a problem with the axle mfg.
    You have to be VERY thurough with your spec's. Don't let Sutphen decide what you want. They can build good custom trucks if you write good specs.
    I would NEVER want a Sutphen buillt on a commercial chassis. We had an order of them in the early 90's and they were the worst firetrucks I've ever seen in terms of looks, operability and reliability.
    My VFD just purchased a engine/tanker and we toured the Sutphen plant. It was better than we expected, but in the end Pierce was several thousand cheaper and had better attention to detail.
    As for the Rhino liner inside, I don't see a problem other than they may have to send it out to have it done, they may not have the equipment. Wouldn't hurt to ask.

  8. #28
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    Our 1993 Stuphen Engine, runs just as good today as it did when it was new. Great rig. Would not bat an eye if we get a chance to buy a new one. Nothing runs like a Sutphen!


    That is Nothing Runs Like A DEERE!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Sutphen Recall
    By dragonfyre in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-23-2010, 07:27 PM
  2. Sutphen...union/non-union built???
    By FIREMECH1 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-06-2010, 08:58 AM
  3. Your Dept. Apparatus
    By firedude3316 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-06-2005, 02:50 PM
  4. any big city explorers
    By expvol in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-05-2004, 07:49 PM
  5. ATTN: Sutphen Tower owners....I need help.
    By 15 Truck in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-05-2002, 09:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts