1. #1
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    Default Looking for pierce aerial price information

    Just looking for the ballpark area of cost difference between the 75' ladder aluminum, 100' aluminum, and 105' heavy duty. Also whether these are in standard, or PUC configuration.

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    Only your Piece dealer can answer that accurately.

    Will depend on how many kids he needs to put through collage in the next couple years.

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    Default understand

    I understand that there are many variations just looking for what people got for their buck. I know their is a big difference between a 75' stick and a 100' platform. What I am wondering is how much is the cost difference between the 75' stick and the 100' stick. Is it something that would be a decision breaker, reason being is we are looking at the possibility of purchasing our first ladder. We currently rely on a mutual aid company and we seem to get burned more than it helps. A 75' foot will more than do the job for all of our area were just wondering if the price isn't a huge diff why not take the extra 25' due to the fact that our 2nd due aerial to town is a 100' platform which fits everywhere no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfd2674 View Post
    I understand that there are many variations just looking for what people got for their buck. I know their is a big difference between a 75' stick and a 100' platform. What I am wondering is how much is the cost difference between the 75' stick and the 100' stick. Is it something that would be a decision breaker, reason being is we are looking at the possibility of purchasing our first ladder. We currently rely on a mutual aid company and we seem to get burned more than it helps. A 75' foot will more than do the job for all of our area were just wondering if the price isn't a huge diff why not take the extra 25' due to the fact that our 2nd due aerial to town is a 100' platform which fits everywhere no problem.
    HUGE difference in pricing depending on a myriad of items and options. Our neighbors just bought a 75' aluminum DEMO,just shy of $700K. You want a 100? Add 2-250K to that. Want a 105 HD? Easily top 1 Mil. Knowing what you NEED will help determine what you need to spend.Our 100' MM platform was just over 900K two years ago and we got a VERY good price. Same truck today is a million two. T.C.

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    Take a look at the pricing offered through some of the purchasing consortiums such as HGAC, Florida Sheriff's Association (yes, they have fire engine purchasing), COSTARS, Ohio Procurement, and the like. They're a good place to get some ballpark figures.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    HUGE difference in pricing depending on a myriad of items and options. Our neighbors just bought a 75' aluminum DEMO,just shy of $700K. You want a 100? Add 2-250K to that. Want a 105 HD? Easily top 1 Mil. Knowing what you NEED will help determine what you need to spend.Our 100' MM platform was just over 900K two years ago and we got a VERY good price. Same truck today is a million two. T.C.
    Cheese and rice!!!! When we bought our 105' HD quint in 00', it was $550K with a bunch of custom stuff. That's a doubling of price in 11 years! My butt hurts just thinking about that...

    Ours is steel, not aluminum, and has a stainless body. Not a Pierce, either.

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    For us there wouldn't be too much custom stuff put into it. Right now were running 2 rescue engines and an engine. The 2 rescue engines are within the last 10 years. Our last rescue engine came in at about 600 fully equip. The reason were looking into a quint is we have 2 senior buildings within our town that both fell under regulations somehow and do not have a standpipe system. These buildings are 4 stories with 300+ foot hallways there is no center stairway so right now its a fairly extensive operation to get water to the above floors. Not to mention the worst part of it all which is the life hazard. If theres that much of a cost discrepincy between the 75 and the 100 than it would be cost inefective to go with the 100 because right now we operate our first mutual aid ladder is a 75 and doesn't have a problem reaching. The reason we look to replacing the engine with a quint is because if we were to replace the engine with just another engine the town would be spending probably in the ballpark of 350 to 400K for a backup piece. Another Bit of information is we run out of 2 houses. Single house has a rescue engine, main house has rescue engine and engine. With the purchase of a quint we would run that as first due out of the main house for everything except MVAs, car fires, and Rit assignments. So basically the only needs for this aerial piece are the ladder and a pump the only thing specific is to make sure theres an aux. discharge on the tip so we can use it as a standpipe.

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    If you want the best price don't limit your self to one manufacturer or a certain material. Go out to competetive bid and compare the responses to see what is best for your department. I would suggest you figure out what height you would require though for the present and the future.

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    I would stick to aluminum, however, I wouldnt limit myself to one manufacture, especially the one who is new to the game making aluminum ladders.

    A platform is always a better purchase, (I myself, am just reading Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook) IF you can afford it. The number 1 reason it is better, is for what you mentioned, the ol folks homes, youngens, elders, and impaired and non ambulatory people feel safer, more confident and less panic stricken in a bucket.

    I was just shopping for a Quint platform, I purchased one for another company in 2002. We are exploring the idea in my own town. The unit I purchased in 2002 was a Demo, we picked up for 675k, and I know the same company, currently has two demos for a shy under 800k.

    I tell you want, after extensive research, E-One builds a quality tower, aluminum and has good prices. I do not know about serviceability in your area. My previous company was 45 minutes from an E-One dealer and service shop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFD_E73_RET View Post
    If you want the best price don't limit your self to one manufacturer or a certain material. Go out to competetive bid and compare the responses to see what is best for your department. I would suggest you figure out what height you would require though for the present and the future.
    Good advice. Bring in multiple manufactures, let them compete. Pierce makes a nice truck, but someone else out there might make one better, cheaper, or more suited to your needs.

    Mack CF with a Baker Aerialscope. Just sayin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    A platform is always a better purchase, (I myself, am just reading Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook) IF you can afford it. The number 1 reason it is better, is for what you mentioned, the ol folks homes, youngens, elders, and impaired and non ambulatory people feel safer, more confident and less panic stricken in a bucket.
    While each of those points has it's merits, I don't feel like those points alone are enough to state that a platform is "always" a better purchase (keep in mind that I work for a department only purchases platforms on aerials). Platforms are heavier and more costly, and there are many departments that will rarely, if ever, perform a rescue off of an aerial device.

    The purchaser should purchase an aerial device to meet the needs of their response district. For arguement's sake - how many sticks does Boston have versus platforms?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Cheese and rice!!!! When we bought our 105' HD quint in 00', it was $550K with a bunch of custom stuff. That's a doubling of price in 11 years! My butt hurts just thinking about that...

    Ours is steel, not aluminum, and has a stainless body. Not a Pierce, either.
    My Department got one in 2005...it was $950k+. Ya, the name started with P.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    While each of those points has it's merits, I don't feel like those points alone are enough to state that a platform is "always" a better purchase (keep in mind that I work for a department only purchases platforms on aerials). Platforms are heavier and more costly, and there are many departments that will rarely, if ever, perform a rescue off of an aerial device.

    The purchaser should purchase an aerial device to meet the needs of their response district. For arguement's sake - how many sticks does Boston have versus platforms?
    Touche`, However, I merely was talking about my experience, and also the read I was doing. Additionally, there are (some) departments that will rarely if ever do a rescue. True statement, HOWEVER, if and when the time comes, you will see the advantages, and the purchase will be worth it on that one call. I think, with the urban area of growth, not compared with the rural, over the expected ~20 years of ownership, the chances of using a platform for a rescue will present itself.

    Not to mention, you cannot do a stokes rescue EASILY from a stick. You are hard pressed to do multiple victim rescue from a stick. Venting and water ops out of a platform is certainly easier.

    I am not sure I have seen a cost difference of more than 50k on a stick vs platform (same size).

    As far as weight, I would like to see some stats. Being in construction, and fabrication, (opinion here, based on experience) I would be SURPRISED if a 100 straight stick, vs. a 100 ft platform, if there were more than 1500lbs of difference over the entire truck. I would love to actually read specs and see what it actually is.

    Take a look in the book Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook.

    Remember, what I post is my opinion, based on my 16 years experience. I add in construction and fabrication, and Health and Safety experience. I add my points for people to consider, and either use, or disregard as they wish.

    Can rescues be done from a stick? yes.
    Can ventilation be done from a stick? yes.
    Can master stream ops be done from a stick? yes.

    Does a tower add benefits worth considering?

    I have never had to fight the fight, most of you do. We had to prove a need, and money was made available. Proving the need was based of surveys, facts etc.

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    I know of a new one on order nearby, 100' that's coming in at 965k @ another 100' tower that was purchased a couple yrs ago for 1.2 million. They don't give them away.

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    Oper77,

    I can't disagree with many of the points that you make. My point of view comes from serving two apparatus committees for about a decade, where we've purchased close to 40 rigs of every size, shape, and function. My career department serves 300,000 and runs 50k calls per year. I can't recall (not to say that it hasn't happened) a rescue from the aerial device in my tenure with the department. Lots of ground ladder rescues, however.

    No arguement that vertical ventilation and stokes operations are far easier to do from a platform.

    Bill Peters' book is a wonderful source of information and is a great read for anyone spec'ing a new rig.

    To add the the discussion, our newest tower ladder (purchased about 18 months ago) was a 100' rear mount with no pump or tank and was just shy of $1M.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    While each of those points has it's merits, I don't feel like those points alone are enough to state that a platform is "always" a better purchase (keep in mind that I work for a department only purchases platforms on aerials). Platforms are heavier and more costly, and there are many departments that will rarely, if ever, perform a rescue off of an aerial device.

    The purchaser should purchase an aerial device to meet the needs of their response district. For arguement's sake - how many sticks does Boston have versus platforms?
    We would love to have platforms....they are great...if we can get them to the fire building due to our city streets. Our experiment with them didnt work out too well. we are back to all tillers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfd2674 View Post
    So basically the only needs for this aerial piece are the ladder and a pump the only thing specific is to make sure theres an aux. discharge on the tip so we can use it as a standpipe.

    There are better ways to get water to upper floors without wasting the aerial, especially in a building with such a life safety hazard.

    ffp20, where in NY are you from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    HUGE difference in pricing depending on a myriad of items and options. Our neighbors just bought a 75' aluminum DEMO,just shy of $700K. You want a 100? Add 2-250K to that. Want a 105 HD? Easily top 1 Mil. Knowing what you NEED will help determine what you need to spend.Our 100' MM platform was just over 900K two years ago and we got a VERY good price. Same truck today is a million two. T.C.
    Good God. Our 75 foot demo Smeal (so steel) was just over $500,000 and we added some things that probably weren't absolutely "mission essential." It amazes me the spread from manufacturer to manufacturer on some of this stuff, and it isn't like we bought a second rate piece to keep the price low...
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    Town near mine ordered Pierce rear mount tower no pump 1millon

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    Default A little off in your weights

    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    I am not sure I have seen a cost difference of more than 50k on a stick vs platform (same size).

    As far as weight, I would like to see some stats. Being in construction, and fabrication, (opinion here, based on experience) I would be SURPRISED if a 100 straight stick, vs. a 100 ft platform, if there were more than 1500lbs of difference over the entire truck. I would love to actually read specs and see what it actually is.

    Take a look in the book Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook.

    Remember, what I post is my opinion, based on my 16 years experience. I add in construction and fabrication, and Health and Safety experience. I add my points for people to consider, and either use, or disregard as they wish.
    Just to make sure I post correct info and not a guess I looked at six weight and balance reports for a 103 quint and six for a rear mount platform. The average in service weight of the sticks was 70,630 and 81,450 for the platforms. Your guess at the weight difference of only 1,500 pounds was off a little, about 10,000 pounds. These reports were for steel aerials and platforms but I am sure the weight difference would be close to the same for an aluminum product.

    And the price difference being only 50 grand between a stick and a platform, I think you are a little light on this estimate too. At least 100to 125 grand between the two.

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    The reason we are looking for the stick and not the platform, and using it as a standpipe and not for life safety. The building we are talking about has 2 ladders preplanned on the box alarm. One stick and one platform, this goes for every box except for our residential box which is just the stick. most of our residential is single story ranches with slight pitched roofs. Our justification is for the aerial cost to be close to what our rescue engine cost within reason. The idea of jumping to a 100" of any type was only possible if the cost was worth it 50 to 100K for the extra 25 feet. In our area this is a luxery not a need, anything in the ballpark of 900 to 1M is out of the question. As for manufacturer not that everyone doesn't have their problems and such. But the reason why I specified pierce is we bought pierce and have been happy customers and regardless of price we don't fix whats not broken. If we were to go with another brand of a truck because of low bid and had issues with it we would kick ourselves in the *****. In the area numerous departments have bought segrave, E-One, Smeal, Crimson. Everytime were turning around they are calling to tell us that units OOS. To this day knock on wood we havent sent a single truck out for a period in time for something that was pierces fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    There are better ways to get water to upper floors without wasting the aerial, especially in a building with such a life safety hazard.
    I'd even go as far to say as there is no worse way to bring water to upper floors than by using a tip discharge. Tying an aerial up to use as a standpipe is really just lazy. Drop a rope down from a window and make a stretch. Generally speaking, few FD's put enough aerials in place that tying one up doesn't eliminate the use as a means of egress or other needed function. Not to mention, I've never thought having your hoseline attached to something that can easily become mobile was a good idea. One slip and a push of a lever and your being dragged backward! If your FDNY or a very small group of others, maybe you can line the streets with enough aerials to maintain full scrub, but I'm betting 99% of the time, tying up any aerial diminishes the overall safety of the operation in some manner.

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    Go through the recent deliveries in the Fire and Emergency Apparatus magazines and check prices. Here is an example:

    Truck A: E-One
    100' Aluminum Platform
    500 HP Diesel
    300 Gallon Tank
    2000 GPM Pump
    10,000 KW Generator
    PRICE: $825,000

    Truck B: Pierce
    100' Steel Platform
    500 HP Diesel
    300 Gallon Tank
    2000 GPM Pump
    10,000 KW Generator
    PRICE: $1,100,000

    Being from a department that runs both Pierce and E-One, I can honestly say I would take the E-One any day of the week, and have enough money left over to almost buy an entire other engine.
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    price depends on area as was said before in our area our pierce dealer is the closest for servicability and has been low bidder of the top companies. E-One, Crimson, Pierce, and Segrave. Close by town just did a fully juiced pierce 100 foot platform equip. and all 900K. When the bids came in for the spec E-One was 1.1M and crimson about a mill.

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    I can remember buying a 100' platform not that long ago for $400,000. I must be getting old.

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