1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    ...Glad I don't have to work a fire ground with you.
    Me too.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    NFPA 1901 Standard For Automotive Fire Apparatus requires that wheel chocks be supplied with the truck and be mounted before the truck is put in service.

    Might be a reason for that!
    not to be a *****....but....does NFPA state they should be used....or simply supplied?

    and do we all still agree that NFPA stands for...

    Not
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    Application
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    Finally, not all manufactures require or even have pins on jacks. E-One aerials dont have a way to pin, because cross jacks are engineered in a way that you dont need to pin them. There are no pin holes, there are no pins. It is not laziness, you just cant pin them if you wanted to. Also, its strange, all this steel, and these hydraulics, and you have to put your life on 4 steel pins. Are you going to tell me steel doesnt fatigue and eventually fail?
    You are preaching to the choir. I drive a E-One platform every third day. That's why I said those unfortunate enough to have to use jack pins.
    Career Firefighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  4. #54
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    Default To Chock or not to Chock.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    This I find interesting now that I reread it. Both chocks together must be capable of holding the apparatus. How often do two chocks mounted on the same side get placed to hold the apparatus in only one direction? Even when parking on a grade, most of the time I've seen chocks on both sides, indicating they're being placed to comply with a policy vs. placed for maximum effectiveness. It seems that maybe one chock may not be enough to hold the apparatus as intended? Does anyone have a policy that says place both in one direction for inclines?
    Chief Looking back on the original instructions of an OEM, Most of then state the chocks should be placed on the down grade side of the wheels -axles when working on a grade, so in monday morning quarterbacking one unit with 4-chocks should have all 4-chocks on the down grade side of the apparatus axles.

    BTW I will be up your way in November or December, I stop in and say hello to all if time allows.

  5. #55
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    I'm always amused how 99% of the topics get derailed in forums and the subject is changed and no one notices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    Chief Looking back on the original instructions of an OEM, Most of then state the chocks should be placed on the down grade side of the wheels -axles when working on a grade
    This of course is the only way that makes sense. As I said, if you look around, when you see chocks out, they're most often on both sides of the wheel vs. two in the same direction, unless the slope is so obvious people really are worried.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skysthelimit View Post
    BTW I will be up your way in November or December, I stop in and say hello to all if time allows.
    That'd be great. Let me know I might be able to meet you somewhere if your not to close, I'm gonna be "light duty" for a bit with a shoulder surgery next week. Course as everyone is so quick to remind me, most of my job seems to be pretty light in the duty category and holding a radio mic isn't bad one handed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    Stating that is nice. Short of spending $50 to buy the document, can you provide a location for where that is stated. I have scrolled through the document, and I am not seeing it yet.

    just a curiosity thing
    I'm not going to go thru my desk full of paper to justify what I'm gonna say. we are a licensed Repair facility in the State of Maine,do vehicle forensics with MSP, and run a Towing and recovery service. The following statement of facts apply: Auto adjusters..........DON'T. Spring brakes/anchorloks,what ever you care to call them........FAIL and NOT always catastrophically. Chocks are MANDATED here by both MY company and FD Sog's. Front brake locking I believe is now mandated on all new aerial trucks. It's simply an electrically operated solenoid that applies/retains pressure to the front brake "cans". Our 09 Smeal has it on it. Easy way to remember how an air brake works: when you push the yellow release button,air pressure compresses a big coil spring in the far end of the brake can and holds it there.In NORMAL braking,air pressure pushes on a diaphram in the LOWER end of the can and overcomes a smaller spring, jacking the S cam to apply pressure to the shoes/rotor caliper to effect the stopping process. In EMERGENCY(air loss)or parking,the air pressure holding the BIG parking brake spring is removed which causes the spring to apply the brake(S cam) just as normal braking would do but faster, Hence the name"Spring brake" T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    You are preaching to the choir. I drive a E-One platform every third day. That's why I said those unfortunate enough to have to use jack pins.
    Our Smeal has pins. Has the same hyd safety valves the E-ones have.If you DON'T have hyd. pressure,nothing moves.The pins are a redundant safety and I don't mind that when my happy a** is many feet off the ground. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    This is really not that hard..

    NFPA (as illustrated), manufacterer guidelines, department SOP/SOG, industry standard, etc. all point to putting wheel chocks on the ground. It takes 5 seconds to place and pick them up. I will take that 5 seconds to ensure that I am not on the stand somewhere trying to jusftify my complacency, because that's all it is.

    And by the way, our aerials have the front tires touching the ground in most routine operations. Those are the wheels that get chocked. For those of you unfortunate enough to have to worry about it, do you not place jack pins either? Afterall, you shouldn't need them right?
    You were taught RIGHT. The Smeal operators manual says you chock whichever wheels are on the ground. Which COULD be front or rear depending on Setup. It ain't Rocket science even though some try to make it that way. A Chock full of AIR never worked yet. T.c.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oper77 View Post
    the re-invention of the new airbrakes.

    with the re-invention of the hydraulic piston, there is a fail safe to it.

    There is nothing new about the way modern air brakes work. They have been working the same basic way since George Westinghouse invented them.

    There is also nothing new about hydraulic pistons. The reason some manufacturers supply pinnable outriggers is due to the fact that holding valves all leak to some minor degree. Maybe only a drop every few minutes but, they do leak a little. Consequently, if you set the aerial up for an extended period of time, the jack will move a little. Even on an E-One.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    There is nothing new about the way modern air brakes work. They have been working the same basic way since George Westinghouse invented them.

    There is also nothing new about hydraulic pistons. The reason some manufacturers supply pinnable outriggers is due to the fact that holding valves all leak to some minor degree. Maybe only a drop every few minutes but, they do leak a little. Consequently, if you set the aerial up for an extended period of time, the jack will move a little. Even on an E-One.
    AGREED!

    I believe to this day I am still here thanks to my aerial having pins! An unknowingly defective hydraulic piston seal caused an outrigger to fail while I was on the tip of a modern 75' LTI, flowing 1000GPM or more, at full extension, and at 30 degrees. We HAD NO IDEA there was a failure until we went to remove the pin to stow the jacks and noticed that the pin was holding the truck up. It's 10 seconds that COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE!

    Back to the actual topic at hand...

    The SPH100 has one of the fastest set up times in the industry for a Mid-Mounted Tower Ladder. It also has only one set of side-protruding outriggers which makes it quite a bit easier to position in tight areas. E-One has a good jacking system as well... but it's two different styles and other then comparing set up times, we're not comparing apples to apples.

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    I set up my 95 rear mount tower (I was the driver for the shift so it was mine) for training the other day. We set the bucket in the air to use for the tech rescue bozo to try to hang themselves with. The truck was on a slope of 5% the max front to back slope for the truck. After several hours of use we had to back the truck off the chock in the front wheel only about a 1/4". Either way the truck moved foward to the point weight was applied to the chock and could not be removed. why risk it?

    This truck also after flowing water off the ladder pipe at a low angle the outriggers on that side sometimes has to be slightly lifted to remove the pins off of that side. Once again not alot only about a 1/8" to a 1/4". Valves leak!!

    Once again nobody here has stated a valid reason to not use chocks or pins or any other safety item. Crushing the chocks is not a valid reason. It takes to much time is not a valid reason. Modern air brakes dont need chocks is not a valid reason (was the titanic not a new modern unsinkable ship?).


    As far as the video and set up time i think we can all agree it is a marketing video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    Crushing the chocks is not a valid reason.

    I have never seen a crushed chock and I have seen several get run over. I'm calling bull. Not on you, but the original poster of the "observation." I agree with everything you said.

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