1. #1
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    Default Extrication Tools/SOGs

    What do all of you have to say about this inventory of extrication tools for a department?? Also, what is your setup and SOGs for response to MVC's?

    Cutters and Spreaders
    Ram(some with extension and some not)
    Power plant to run them of course
    2 step chocks
    4-8 pieces of 4x4 cribbing
    3 airbags of different sizes
    sawzall

    This list is what is carried on some engines but not all. No heavy rescue truck exists at this department I speak of. Now notice there are no struts or jacks. In your everyday door pop, this is no problem but when you start getting some more complicated wrecks you will need them. Not to mention a limited amount of chocks and cribbing. You just never know how much you will need and to have and to put a 3rd engine OOS just to use their cribbing seems obnoxious. I wont even get into some of the various other extrication tools that are not as commonly used(air chisel, pedal cutters, etc). Now I understand that you can only carry so much on an engine and not all departments are the FDNY or HFD or whatever big city department that have true engine and truck companies along with rescues that can be better stocked to be efficient. But, this begs the question as to why there is no HEAVY RESCUE with the right equipment???

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    Is there any type of rescue truck in the department? That seems like quite a bit of supplies on an engine. What about mutual aid? Any rescue equipment available through mutual aid?

    It's hard to develop SOGs for tactical measures as no two (2) wrecks are the same. Just the basics of safety (de-energizing, air bag identification, charging hose lines, etc) are the basics to cover. It would be quite a lengthy SOG to critique how to stabilize given a situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BennyT373 View Post
    Is there any type of rescue truck in the department? That seems like quite a bit of supplies on an engine. What about mutual aid? Any rescue equipment available through mutual aid?

    It's hard to develop SOGs for tactical measures as no two (2) wrecks are the same. Just the basics of safety (de-energizing, air bag identification, charging hose lines, etc) are the basics to cover. It would be quite a lengthy SOG to critique how to stabilize given a situation.
    No rescue truck at all. As far as I know we dont have a mutual aid agreement for wrecks, mainly an agreement for big plant fire or something of that sort. As far as SOG's, thats what I was talking about, the basics of how many apparatus are dispatched, hose line or not??, and any other response type stuff. Not the actual tactics and what not. Anyways, thanks for the response.

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    Our first out is an engine (in case of fire, rescue truck has no water) which has basic cribbing and spreader/cutters and portable power, 2nd out is rescue truck (stabilization, lots of cribbing, res-q jacks, air bags, etc. 3rd is personnel carrier.

    SOG also talks about ensuring vehicle is turned off and cutting batteries, vehicle in park, or brake set, putting sheets over pts during extrication. Pulling a line if liquids are leaking, or at minimum an extinguisher while extrication is performed.

    Response SOG states which apparatus goes where. For example E1 stays in the city, and aux engines run county mutual aid calls.

    Do you not have any current SOGs? Send me a PM if you need more assistance. My company writes Fire/Law/EMS SOGs.

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    Might want to post something in the rescue section also, may get more info on SOGs. I will try to dig ours up.

    Below is a link to PA's rescue certification program manual. It is worth taking a look at to give you an idea of what to shoot for. With an Engine, you are not looking much above a first responder level. Without knowing your district, you could evaluate the need for the rope portion of the equipment.

    http://www.sehsc.org/VRSR/Vehicle%20...rch%202009.pdf

    I am assuming you have basic hand tools and a decent tool box on your Engine along with electric source and lighting. Here are a few thoughts:

    Not nearly enough cribbing for an air bag operation. Depending on your situation with mutual aid responses or multi company responses you may want to only have air bags on 1 unit and carry more cribbing on it (in addition to what you have on each vehicle). Not ideal but might be better than setting yourself up for an unsafe operation. Need 2x4s and wedges.

    How do you handle EMS? Consider having a supply of C-collars and at least a jump bag with supplies. Depending on your situation may want to expand some. AED also. Need blankets to protect patients.

    Strongly recommend a couple of struts for stabilization. Might also want to look at some Auto-Cribs (see below). These things are very cool and vastly superior to step chocks. Also take up less space.

    http://www.community.fdic.com/index....uct&__js=false

    Need a glass removal tool. What kind of recip saw are you using? Battery powered, even 18V, works well but require battery maintenance.

    A small porta power kit is nice to have, as is a come-a-long with a couple of chains.

    If you do not have heavy rescue back up, I would definately stick with spreaders and cutters and not do combination tools.
    Thomas Anthony, PE
    Structures Specialist PA-TF1 & PA-ST1
    Paramedic / Rescue Tech North Huntington Twp EMS
    The artist formerly known as Captain 10-2

    No, I am not a water rescue technician, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irons33fd View Post
    What do all of you have to say about this inventory of extrication tools for a department?? Also, what is your setup and SOGs for response to MVC's?

    Cutters and Spreaders
    Ram(some with extension and some not)
    Power plant to run them of course
    2 step chocks
    4-8 pieces of 4x4 cribbing
    3 airbags of different sizes
    sawzall

    This list is what is carried on some engines but not all. No heavy rescue truck exists at this department I speak of. Now notice there are no struts or jacks. In your everyday door pop, this is no problem but when you start getting some more complicated wrecks you will need them. Not to mention a limited amount of chocks and cribbing. You just never know how much you will need and to have and to put a 3rd engine OOS just to use their cribbing seems obnoxious. I wont even get into some of the various other extrication tools that are not as commonly used(air chisel, pedal cutters, etc). Now I understand that you can only carry so much on an engine and not all departments are the FDNY or HFD or whatever big city department that have true engine and truck companies along with rescues that can be better stocked to be efficient. But, this begs the question as to why there is no HEAVY RESCUE with the right equipment???
    No where near enough stuff. Minimum of 4 step chocks and 5 to 6x the amount of cribbing INCLUDING 6x6. Rubber mats, hi-lifts,come-alongs and chain come to mind. T.C.

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    Might also want to look at the area you serving. There hasn't been a need for struts/jacks in my area in about 30 years. Ya, we do have a set. But they have never been off the trucks other than for training. Our accident volume/styles haven't led to the need for them.

    and the listing of tools/chocks/etc would suffice in my area very well.

    Of course, in other areas....not so well.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Might also want to look at the area you serving. There hasn't been a need for struts/jacks in my area in about 30 years. Ya, we do have a set. But they have never been off the trucks other than for training. Our accident volume/styles haven't led to the need for them.

    and the listing of tools/chocks/etc would suffice in my area very well.

    Of course, in other areas....not so well.
    Bones,you must do a lot of single vehicle wrecks if ONE set of step chocks is enough. We see a lot of Suv's up here which require more stuff than your average MB or hyundai. Our Ladder, which is a back up extrication truck has about a half cord or wood on it. Our struts come off with fair regularity. I can't imagine operating with two chocks and a half dozen sticks,but like you say,areas differ. T.C.

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    If the extrication tools come off the truck twice a year....we've been busy with accidents.

    Traffic congestion tends to minimize the severity of the accidents we respond to. And I am in a very flat area.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    If the extrication tools come off the truck twice a year....we've been busy with accidents.

    Traffic congestion tends to minimize the severity of the accidents we respond to. And I am in a very flat area.
    Well come on up. Wrecks around here tend to be severe and NASTY! Combination of geography,steep ditches and TREES! T.c.

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