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  1. #1
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    Default Cummins ISL Engine & Meritor EX225 Disc Brake Problems

    Would appreciate knowing if anyone else is having issues with Cummins ISL Engines (primarily those built before the 2010 emissions) as to oil leaks and head gasket failure?

    Secondly anyone had the bolts holding the caliper on the Meritor EX225 17" Disc Brake coming loose or backing right out? This problem has been detected on 3 of my customer's thirteen 2007 Engines and Meritor has spent 6 months on this and says "they've never heard of or seen this before"...

    That's a first in our industry IMHO and it could lead to complete brake failure on that wheel as in the first case the crew complained of the front brakes overheating and when the rear wheels were removed the bolts had backed off and a couple were missing thereby causing the brake caliper not to work.. The only way to find out if they are loose is to remove the wheels and that's time and labour consuming!

    Thanks


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    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Didn't you have an earlier issue of the same problem a few months ago??? I asked a few members on the EVT board about issues with their EX225 equipped rigs and got nothing as far as issues with the bolts backing out. I don't have any rigs on the paid dept. that has them, but a couple volly dept.'s that do. Haven't found an issue with any of them.

    Is this a recurring issue?? If so, I believe there is a update on the caliper slide pins and bolts. If so, I need to find and locate where I found it.

    FM1
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    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    Would appreciate knowing if anyone else is having issues with Cummins ISL Engines (primarily those built before the 2010 emissions) as to oil leaks and head gasket failure?



    Thanks
    Cummins is fighting doing warranty work on a friend's motorhome with an ISL in it, and what sounds like is the same head gasket problem. Pre emissions too.

    Didn't a bunch of ISLs in fire service applications have a recall before they were ever delivered to the end user? A neighboring department north of us had a Ferrara delayed as Cummins had to replace the head, or so I thought.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Didn't you have an earlier issue of the same problem a few months ago??? I asked a few members on the EVT board about issues with their EX225 equipped rigs and got nothing as far as issues with the bolts backing out. I don't have any rigs on the paid dept. that has them, but a couple volly dept.'s that do. Haven't found an issue with any of them.

    Is this a recurring issue?? If so, I believe there is a update on the caliper slide pins and bolts. If so, I need to find and locate where I found it.

    FM1
    Yes FM1 I did and NO one responded saying they've encountered this besides my customer which seems unusual based on the FD having 3 so far!! and Meritor says they've not seen it either...

    Yet they've had 3 trucks with the round head bolts backing out and in fact some coming right out and it's a definite concern (Safety) issue to the FD but Meritor seems to not feel the same! If you can find the update please let me know as Meritor isn't/hasn't said there is an issue but try telling that after a brake failure happens resulting in an accident. I'll try and post a photo of the bolts backing out.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Cummins is fighting doing warranty work on a friend's motorhome with an ISL in it, and what sounds like is the same head gasket problem. Pre emissions too.

    Didn't a bunch of ISLs in fire service applications have a recall before they were ever delivered to the end user? A neighboring department north of us had a Ferrara delayed as Cummins had to replace the head, or so I thought.
    Thanks NPFD801 and don't know about the recall although I know that Riverside County who purchased a large quantity of Spartan/Smeal MF Engines about 5 years ago did have a head gasket issue with a few that was a result I believe of a casting problem but I've talked to 5 larger FD's in Canada ALL who've had a constant problem with oil leaks without any resolve from Cummins so far. SO as I allued to in post about the Meritor EX225 Disc Brake can we be the only ones...

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    Default Meritor EX225 Disc Brake Problem

    Here's a photo showing the RH side rear single axle brake assembly with one of the bolts missing and the other coming loose!.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    Here's a photo showing the RH side rear single axle brake assembly with one of the bolts missing and the other coming loose!.
    Have you sent Meritor a registered letter/return receipt requested documenting this occurrance as well as the others?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Default Meritor EX225 Disc Brake Problem

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Have you sent Meritor a registered letter/return receipt requested documenting this occurrance as well as the others?
    As my other posting says we've been in communication with Meritor by email, phone and they've visited the FD wtih their regional service rep but todate no real answer, assistance or solution and the FD has 13 other apparatus with the same brakes and the time (labor) to take out of service to check is substantial and Meritor aren't willing todate to bear the costs.

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    I gotta say I'm surprised to see discs on the rear axle in that city.

    Having said that, are they having any problems on the front axle or is this only happening on the rear?

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    Forum Member FIREMECH1's Avatar
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    Looking at the missing bolt, it is one of the 4 Bridge bolts that is missing, and the other backing out. Haven't found anything on these bolts. The info I had was for the slide pin bolts.

    Best suggestion I have would be to get some new bolts and apply some semi-permanent lock-tite. Outside of that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Looking at the missing bolt, it is one of the 4 Bridge bolts that is missing, and the other backing out. Haven't found anything on these bolts. The info I had was for the slide pin bolts.

    Best suggestion I have would be to get some new bolts and apply some semi-permanent lock-tite. Outside of that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

    FM1
    Thanks but the real issue is Meritor not feeling this is a safety concern and not stepping up to the plate get ALL the trucks checked and see how many others are loose or have come out as you don't want to find out the hard way and there is no way to check w/o removing the wheels which is timely/cost consuming.

    Finally I was told my customer was the ONLY one they've heard about yet I've found another FD on EVTA.INFO who's experienced it too so as usual NOT a one of occurence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    I gotta say I'm surprised to see discs on the rear axle in that city.

    Having said that, are they having any problems on the front axle or is this only happening on the rear?
    Why are you surprised as they are more than adequate to hold the apparatus and they have the front axle park brake feature too. The issue has been only on the rear single axle Engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    Thanks but the real issue is Meritor not feeling this is a safety concern and not stepping up to the plate get ALL the trucks checked and see how many others are loose or have come out as you don't want to find out the hard way and there is no way to check w/o removing the wheels which is timely/cost consuming.

    Finally I was told my customer was the ONLY one they've heard about yet I've found another FD on EVTA.INFO who's experienced it too so as usual NOT a one of occurence.
    Have you gotten your municipal solicitor involved??
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Have you gotten your municipal solicitor involved??
    That's lawyer for us Americans!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    That's lawyer for us Americans!
    Yes that's the next step if Meritor don't step up and change out all the Calipers on the trucks involved with new ones and the sealer on the bolts properly torqued.

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    Cummins engines have a history of oil leaks. I do not know the model, but they were late 90's early 00's, installed in BlueBird TC2000 busses. Our mechanics were constantly dealing with front seal leaks. I shuttled many of them back and forth to the local Cummins dealer for repairs...

    Not a head gasket issue like yours, but it WAS a leaky oil seal, and it happened to MANY of these engines. I'm guessing it was also due to the way the block or the cover was cast. Cummins knew all about it, to- we weren't the only ones with that issue.

    It sure jerks my chain the way many of these big manufacturers refuse to acknowlege issues like this. They just deny and deny until forced to face up to it... If I had a company that made brakes, I'd DAMN sure want to know about major issues like that!! That's the stuff ruinous class action lawsuits are made of!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    As my other posting says we've been in communication with Meritor by email, phone and they've visited the FD wtih their regional service rep but todate no real answer, assistance or solution and the FD has 13 other apparatus with the same brakes and the time (labor) to take out of service to check is substantial and Meritor aren't willing todate to bear the costs.
    Always remember that you can email, telephone, visit shops, have service reps visit you all you want until you are blue in the face- Legally, the problem does not exist until you notify them officially by means of a registered letter, return receipt requested; especially for important matters such as brake calipers/bolts having major failures. They can and will deny deny deny ever speaking to you. Of course emails can be produced as evidence but any good defense attorney will fight them.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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