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  1. #1
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    Default MaxxForce Engines

    For those that may not be familiar with the MaxxForce engines they are made by Navistar (International) and meet EPA requirements for diesel engines without the use of urea.

    I know that KME has been using the MaxxForce engines for awhile. MaxxForce engines have also been advertised in fire service magazines. Since Detroit and Cat are no longer supplying to the fire service market I'm wondering if Navistar is looking to make a push. Has anyone heard of builders other the KME using MaxxForce?

    Thanks,
    Walt
    Train like you want to fight.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    For those that may not be familiar with the MaxxForce engines they are made by Navistar (International) and meet EPA requirements for diesel engines without the use of urea.

    I know that KME has been using the MaxxForce engines for awhile. MaxxForce engines have also been advertised in fire service magazines. Since Detroit and Cat are no longer supplying to the fire service market I'm wondering if Navistar is looking to make a push. Has anyone heard of builders other the KME using MaxxForce?

    Thanks,
    Walt
    Spartan now offers the 11 and 13. I'm not sure what HME or ALF are doing.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I understand these engines are using EPA "credits" to meet the 2010 standards and that the EPA will no longer allow the use of credits after 2012 (?). Anyone heard what IHC will do then to make their engines meet the EPA standard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MVFDWA View Post
    I understand these engines are using EPA "credits" to meet the 2010 standards and that the EPA will no longer allow the use of credits after 2012 (?). Anyone heard what IHC will do then to make their engines meet the EPA standard?
    Don't know if IH can clean up the MaxxForce enough to comply (with urea) or they will develop a new engine from the ground up?

  5. #5
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    Default Maxxforce Engines

    I initially was excited about having an engine that didn't need Urea like Cummins and DD13 and miss the DD Ser 60 and ISM.. but I've heard of a few OEM's having issues with high heat generation and poor idling/running with the Maxxforce from a number of sources and if the Navistar run out of credits then it's an orphan IMHO and we're back to the Urea equipped engines.

    I'd read an article on FireRescue last week about a TV news story about the San Diego FD complaining of the cost of Regen in fuel and maintenance and that they were going ask their politicians to try and get EPA to exempt apparatus like they do for the Miltary and Construction applications which would be great IF they did but not sure if realistic.

  6. #6
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post
    Don't know if IH can clean up the MaxxForce enough to comply (with urea) or they will develop a new engine from the ground up?
    The Maxxforce are NOT urea engines and Int/Cat are doing all they can to prevent that from happening. NOW if we could get the MORONS at EPA to see what a disaster mandating unproven platforms is,MAYBE we could get somewhere. However with all the $ involved I doubt practicality and reliability will be offered to us anytime soon. T.C.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Sutphen is also offering the MaxxForce engine.

  8. #8
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    Default

    E-One also has MaxxForce engines available.

  9. #9
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    http://media.navistar.com/index.php?s=43&item=474

    April 5, 2011

    In addition, Navistar also recently submitted its MaxxForce 13 at 0.20g NOx for EPA certification, once again reiterating its prime technology path in meeting the 0.20g NOx standard through in-cylinder technologies.

  10. #10
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    If i understood the article, they are using the credits to buy some time while they continue to clean up the emissions to reach the government threshold.

    At the current rate, by the year 2030, diesel engines will double as air cleaners. Sorry for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist.

    C6

  11. #11
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Command6 View Post

    At the current rate, by the year 2030, diesel engines will double as air cleaners. Sorry for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist.

    C6
    And 20 years ago I would have bet you a $1,000 that we wouldn't be putting Cow Pi@@ in our engines to reduce emissions. What do I know!

  12. #12
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    And 20 years ago I would have bet you a $1,000 that we wouldn't be putting Cow Pi@@ in our engines to reduce emissions. What do I know!
    Good News!.........You AREN'T. You're putting it in the EXHAUST! Cool huh? Hehe T.C.

  13. #13
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    Smile Exhaust info

    According to the presentation we saw in San Diego; DEF was a temporary fix in Europe. They are moving on across the pond.

    IH/Navistar is using a new piston head and higher exhaust temps.

    IMO the real answer is CNG or Propane, Seattle City motor pool is switching over except fire and police. Reason too long to refuel with current compressors.

    Lets all hang on and stay safe

  14. #14
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    Has HME delivered any CNG trucks? I wonder how well they're holding up. I saw that the city of Palm Desert had an ambulance converted to CNG in 09 for almost $200k and are having it converted back to diesel for another $75k. Their complaint was that it didn't have enough range.
    Last edited by kerekesk; 11-02-2011 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Never learned my homophones.

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    Cummins reportedly is building rather a large volume of CNG ISB engines for a variety of installation. Recently expanded production as I recall.

    Refuel is the problem (limit to the homebase/motorpool). If can predict the route/mileage and get back home every evening then they may work out. UPS/garbage truck/bus. Not really possible in our line of business.

    CNG does give a very low fuel cost and LONG engine life.

  16. #16
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    Driving by a nearby town's station (Hyannis MA) today, saw an engine hooked up to a wrecker...was wanting some info about that station (I'm a civilian doing research for helping our building committee) so stopped in...told me that it was their newest engine (a 6 mth old Pierce) that had been out of service multiple times due to the new exhaust system and they told factory reps to pick it up and FIX it! Hope we won't have problems like that when we need new engine next year!

  17. #17
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    Cool Cng

    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    Cummins reportedly is building rather a large volume of CNG ISB engines for a variety of installation. Recently expanded production as I recall.

    Refuel is the problem (limit to the homebase/motorpool). If can predict the route/mileage and get back home every evening then they may work out. UPS/garbage truck/bus. Not really possible in our line of business.

    CNG does give a very low fuel cost and LONG engine life.
    Was at the local gas company one time to drop off something to a friend. As I walked through the parking lot past a row of company service trucks all set for CGN operation, I could smell a strong oder of gas fumes. When I got inside and asked my friend about it, his comment was don't smoke in the parking lot. He said all the service trucks leak after a while. Not a ringing endorsment!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Was at the local gas company one time to drop off something to a friend. As I walked through the parking lot past a row of company service trucks all set for CGN operation, I could smell a strong oder of gas fumes. When I got inside and asked my friend about it, his comment was don't smoke in the parking lot. He said all the service trucks leak after a while. Not a ringing endorsment!
    Well worth noting!

  19. #19
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    Talking Cng

    Well a long time ago I was a refinery fire fighter and all our heavy stuff was CNG (lots of people in trenches most days) I do not remember ever having a problem with cranes -dozers or backhoes.

    I spent every day with a gas sniffer hanging on my belt checking trenches vessels.

  20. #20
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    Default

    I know they're not heavy duty trucks but GM is offering CNG cargo vans (Savana and Express) and next year the cutaway versions will offer LPG. Just a thought for future ambulances.

    Also, this just in, Ford is replacing the E-vans with their European Transit van.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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