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Thread: ALF/Toyne

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagravesstick View Post
    Several builders flew 2 of our committee members to their factories (NO CHARGE TO US) Sutphen, Seagrave, KME, and Ferrara.
    How many engines and ladders does your FD have? I'd think the potential for numerous future purchases may make the travel incentive slightly higher than those of us purchasing 1 piece every few years?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagravesstick View Post
    It makes no sense for a FD to purchase a fire apparatus unless you purchase with one of the cooperative purchase agreements available such as HGAC, or Buy Board https://www.buyboard.com/ . There are others and I believe that most builders are on one or the other of the major COOP's.
    ........
    Problem with that is there is no way for you to demonstrate you actually got a better price on your pumper thru HGAC than with a normal bid process. And and as I recall you still have to pay HGAC a %.

    You're taking it on faith HGAC price is lower than x (something). It could just as likely be it works out the same as the guy who shops for a car at maximum monthly payment or gots to the "no haggle/posted price dealer", he gets a new car, feels great about the "experience", but ALWAYS could have gotten a lower price on the same car if he'd negotiate rather than talking monthly payment. Car dealers love payment and no haggle buyers because they more more $ per unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    How many engines and ladders does your FD have? I'd think the potential for numerous future purchases may make the travel incentive slightly higher than those of us purchasing 1 piece every few years?
    We are a smaller city 6 stations, with 2 aerials, 5 engines and our fleet is 2006 models with the excpetion of these two.... no more purchases for at least 3 years, then maybe 1 aerial

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    Problem with that is there is no way for you to demonstrate you actually got a better price on your pumper thru HGAC than with a normal bid process. And and as I recall you still have to pay HGAC a %.

    You're taking it on faith HGAC price is lower than x (something). It could just as likely be it works out the same as the guy who shops for a car at maximum monthly payment or gots to the "no haggle/posted price dealer", he gets a new car, feels great about the "experience", but ALWAYS could have gotten a lower price on the same car if he'd negotiate rather than talking monthly payment. Car dealers love payment and no haggle buyers because they more more $ per unit.
    Well, we thought of that as well... We received 2 proposals, one from E-One and one from Pierce, E-one was $525,000 and Pierce was $617,000.

    In 2006 we purchased 5 units, (2) HP 95' E-One Platforms and (3) 75' Sticks (We use the 3 sticks as engines... I know, I know, save it for a different thread) We went to bid and ended up at something like $1,075,000.00 for each of the platforms and $725,000 for the sticks... we threw them all out and started over.... Thats when we looked into the HGAC thing.... The 95's ended up right at $940,000.00 and the 75's cost us $619,000.00

    And we did a proposal process using HGAC pricing.... Kinda like an open bid. They all knew who all the players were, they knew they had to get their pricing on HGAC, they knew they had to BEAT all of the other players... Worked well for us, we figure we saved our taxpayers $120,000 by using this process....

    And yes you have to pay HGAC their part..... $1,200 per unit, WELL worth the $2,400 it cost us....

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    ? I'd think the potential for numerous future purchases may make the travel incentive slightly higher than those of us purchasing 1 piece every few years?
    I've been to three factories courtesy of the dealer reps over the purchase of a single rescue/pumper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I've been to three factories courtesy of the dealer reps over the purchase of a single rescue/pumper.
    Huh, we were offered a factory trip by one on our rescue pumper and city hall didn't want anything free that other bidders didn't offer. Next time maybe. Anyone building anything in Hawaii?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I've been to three factories courtesy of the dealer reps over the purchase of a single rescue/pumper.
    Some customer, somewhere, will end up paying for those trips. Nobody rides for free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Some customer, somewhere, will end up paying for those trips. Nobody rides for free.
    Absolutely, no arguement there.
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    Well the election has come and gone,guess what nobody could agree on anything for the pumpers , We had a deal with the council for next years budget now with new people that want pay as go budget,so now its back to step one and start over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
    Well the election has come and gone,guess what nobody could agree on anything for the pumpers , We had a deal with the council for next years budget now with new people that want pay as go budget,so now its back to step one and start over again.
    Dont give up.... Get all your ducks in a row again and press on....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagravesstick View Post
    Dont give up.... Get all your ducks in a row again and press on....
    Is the HGAC Buying program availble to fire departments in all 48 states, or only in certain areas of the country! Would this program be availble to fire districts or cites,towns, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    Is the HGAC Buying program availble to fire departments in all 48 states, or only in certain areas of the country! Would this program be availble to fire districts or cites,towns, etc.
    We took a look at it when we were doing ours in 2006, and it was available to all comers then. Another one to look at would be Pa. CoStars, but I'm not sure if that's available to outside of Penna. or not. But you can get some good ideas of what kind of pricing is out there from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodbridgeFFII View Post
    Is the HGAC Buying program availble to fire departments in all 48 states, or only in certain areas of the country! Would this program be availble to fire districts or cites,towns, etc.
    I do believe that it is available to all... You can contact the manufacturer and request a price from HGAC....

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    The new HGAC contracts will be out Dec 1st.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFD_E73_RET View Post
    The new HGAC contracts will be out Dec 1st.
    CustomFire will be available in it for the first time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    CustomFire will be available in it for the first time.
    So will Toyne

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    A couple questions come to mind:
    How many chassis''s are ALF going to manufacture and sell this year? Next year? 5 years from now?
    Now ask the same question about Spartan .
    Ummmm as far as Spartan goes, not very many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce355 View Post
    Ummmm as far as Spartan goes, not very many.
    Yep, markedly less than they have been!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Yep, markedly less than they have been!
    Maybe I'm ignorant, but are all of the Rosenbauer customers really just going to jump off the Spartan chassis bandwagon and buy Rosenbauer's chassis? Maybe it's a great new thing, but we've bought Spartans since 1991 for a reason...
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Maybe I'm ignorant, but are all of the Rosenbauer customers really just going to jump off the Spartan chassis bandwagon and buy Rosenbauer's chassis? Maybe it's a great new thing, but we've bought Spartans since 1991 for a reason...
    Are you familiar with the recent dissolvement of the Rosenbauer/Spartan relationship?
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